Odd Root issue - UC System, gold roots, Thoughts?

[Juzam]

Long of the short the roots are 'gold' in color. Not white, not brown but gold in color. Larger plants are showing deficiency on the tops.

We're experienced cultivators and have our systems generally pretty dialed in. System is 12 containers, 1hp chiller, commercial air pump for aeration. Ph'd at 5.7-5.8, these are 3 different OG strains that we've run and are familair with. We run 4 systems in this same location sharing a Merlin water system and the other systems are without this issue. Previously the only time I have ever seen this as a problem the water filter was to blame. The membranes and carbon filter in the Merlin are both ~2 weeks old.

Any ideas as what this actual issue is? Causes?

http://i329.invalid.com/albums/l391/scatstroker/Plants/roots.jpg

http://i329.invalid.com/albums/l391/scatstroker/Plants/deficiency.jpg

 

[motherlode]

my roots were more gold then white in the UC after awhile - my root mass was way bigger then yours when I stared to notice it - never had any issues - is it possible that your nutrients are staining the root mass? what nutes you running? is this your first UC grow

 

[Juzam]

my roots were more gold then white in the UC after awhile - my root mass was way bigger then yours when I stared to notice it - never had any issues - is it possible that your nutrients are staining the root mass? what nutes you running? is this your first UC grow

Nutirent is a powder based that we've used for years, it doesn't stain the roots.

No, we're quite experienced with DWC (3+ years in that medium.)


It isn't 'browning' or die off of the root, its actual goldish in color and is not 'normal. It is a problem as the deficiency is very evident and is not something we ever see an issue with. IE: The system next to it doesn't have this and it isn't a normal occurance in these systems.

It's also systemic, new plants introduced to the system change root appearance as well.

 

[Bubblehaze]

Did they just pop the roots out of the bottom ? I had mine turn a little pale while forming roots in the uc . They came right back.

The roots look fine IMO

Mine looked like that as well I had no negative effects.

 

[motherlode]

yeah Im at a loss bro - my roots didnt get that gold tint until the very end really

 

[UCMENOW]

Roots look ok aside from the staining......though it doesn't sound or look like your using a UC.

Not the UC heavy duty net pots and CC uses Alita air pumps?....DIY?

 

[Juzam]

Roots look ok aside from the staining......though it doesn't sound or look like your using a UC.

Not the UC heavy duty net pots and CC uses Alita air pumps?....DIY?

Its a clear solution, powder non-colored nute, so there shouldn't be any staining, that's kind of the point. And this is the *ONLY* system doing it, not in other runs, not in systems next to this one. The picture doesn't show the tint well but it isn't a normal browning of the roots, they're golden or bronzed and its not the same.

This system was built before the UC's were, to the best of my knowledge, commercially available. It's aDIY UC on steroids. Bigger containers, bigger air pumps, big chiller. The roots discoloring late bloom cycle is another concern that I've never quite figured out (why rice white for half and then discolor?) but that's another topic.

 

[deacon1503]

Roots look good to me. The systemic effect is what concerns me. This is even true after a flush and refill? I've never seen a deficiency pattern like that.

 

[Juzam]

Roots aren't fine guys, it isn't a 'normal' color change. This isn't our first grow, we aren't new to this, normal root coloring doesn't appear this color, I can't stress this enough.

I'm trying to find a solution or at least a cause before killing off a full system of otherwise healthy plants. Seems I'll be tearing it down and cleaning the entire system tomorrow...

 

[TheBioMaster]

Seen several UC setups with this EXACT issue......been trouble shooting for a while at a couple friends places that have it. Never seen anyting like it.....have not found a solution either so I hope you do find one. Tried many things like cleaning the system, ect....nothing has worked. Cant seem to duplicate the issue either in test systems....its some strange stuff for sure.

We recently started looking into pump flow.....how big is your water pump and how much water does your system hold at full capacity?

One thing you can try is lowering PH to 5.3 for about 7 days.....check plant status for improvement........if not improved, raised PH to 6.2 (slowly obviously), wait 7 days with PH @ 6.2.........check plant status for improvement. PPM should be lowered to 35% of whatever your running now or what your normal PPM would be during veg or flower cycle stages. Lowering the PPM to 35% is a must for this to work. The only time I have not seen this method work in a UC system is when the user was already way to high on PPM, and when lowering the 35%, it only brought them down to a number that was STILL way to high for this system.

This is also a general guide line (for deficiency type issues) that has a really great success rate for fixing nutrient deficient type problems in a UC system.

Peace!

 

[UCMENOW]

e.

This system was built before the UC's were, to the best of my knowledge, commercially available. It's aDIY UC on steroids. Bigger containers, bigger air pumps, big chiller. The roots discoloring late bloom cycle is another concern that I've never quite figured out (why rice white for half and then discolor?) but that's another topic.

If it's one out of the 4 systems it's likely something that occured during a pH adjustment or some other isolated maintenance that was done to the system.

As for "built before the UC's", you said you been DWC for 3 years....UC's been around for 6+. Probably wouldn't be calling it a DIY UC if it weren't ;)

As for your roots, consider running some zone on that system to suppress any problems that may be marinating so it doesn't get out of control.

 

[Juzam]

Bio, thanks for the response.

Problem is in 2 weeks of 'adjusting' I'll have new plants in and banging out at 100% so if they were late flower maybe but they're young enough I'll restart them.

Pump is a 1200gph and about 240 gallons. How do you figure the pump flow effects this issue? We see other issues with increasing pump flow, primarily that the tanks closest tot he pump are lower than the return tanks on water level. Changing to a 3" pipe may help but that's another issue...

 

[Juzam]

If it's one out of the 4 systems it's likely something that occured during a pH adjustment or some other isolated maintenance that was done to the system.

As for "built before the UC's", you said you been DWC for 3 years....UC's been around for 6+. Probably wouldn't be calling it a DIY UC if it weren't ;)

As for your roots, consider running some zone on that system to suppress any problems that may be marinating so it doesn't get out of control.

PH is consistant in the systems. Even if it were a one time PH issue it wouldn't continue to be systemic when new plants are introduced.

Zone is already in the system. Ironically its after zone was in the system that this appeared but I don't know anything in zone that would cause this.

I'm not going to argue symantics of who was first or what to call this... we used individual coolers and then hooked them together to form a recirculating DWC, it isn't rocket science. If you want to say everyone who runs recirculating DWC is a UC systems and everyone copied them and it's their design, ect. then go for it, I dont' care what its called. I appreciate their design and simplicity but they weren't the only people in the world to hook a DWC system together.

 

[opt1c]

flush with physan20 between runs and check your bucket lids for light leaks

 

[Juzam]

flush with physan20 between runs and check your bucket lids for light leaks

On that subject...

We remove the entire systems, disassemble and bleach them top to bottom. Are people having success just draining the systems, running physan20, scrubbing the sides down, flushing and running them again?

This wasn't an issue previously and these plants came in here as clones from a fresh aerocloner so it appeared in the system in this run.

I don't believe it to be a light leak, again its systemic.

 

[opt1c]

yeah physan20 kills stuff bleach won't; used in the aquarium industry... reason i mention the light leak is i'll get bacteria/slime growing in reservoirs where light is present and i'm using zone but if i eliminate the light leaks nothing grows and everything stays sterile.

there was a thread on a different site about brown slime in cloners and it seems similar to your problem; mild cases wouldn't outright slime the roots but they'd take on a golden/tan tint to them and loose the bright white shine

 

[Juzam]

I've read the cloner issue but it's, IMO due to the higher temps the cloners run at and how clean they are before they're run. I've had A LOT of people tell me they don't work, slime, ect. and ours work perfectly but we have built manifolds for them that are taken apart and cleaned, clean everything very thoroughly, ect. If you don't care for them they're a breeding ground for bad stuff and some people just don't get that.

We've never had the same problem with 67* resevoirs. Curious though, what was the solution?

I've always been hesitant to run a system after only putting physan into it but can try it. My concern has always been that unless it's taken apart, washed and dried how do you insure all the physan has been flushed? Seems the examples I've seen the physan isn't 100% out but doesn't cause an issue for the plants in small exposures.

 

[opt1c]

that is the beauty of physan20; it leaves less of a residue than bleach or anything like that; put it this way... people clean aquariums with it and then fill them full of super sensitive fish right after and you'd think they'd be more sensitive than roots

As far as the solution; it was physan20 between runs; that got it out and running it through the system insured it went through the hoses; pumps; etc..

scrub with physan20 instead of bleach; i've had success just running a system with it no scrubbing but i start sterile every time though