Oh My God, He Turned It INSIDE OUT!!!

ttystikk · Apr 7, 2013

Jalisco Kid said:
I have no problem with the light, it is enclosing the light in the plant. It creates more minus then plus's. I can see using a regen blower into a humid lung room (plenum) Then use some pvc to support the plant and dispurse CO2/humidity enriched chilled air to create your micro-climate.This would help fight the light. But look up heath robinsons grow's as he punched out some weight in similar setups. I try to keep it simple as it helps to fix itself later. That is a 10' length of herb you want to fill with a plant. I hope you knock it out of the park but your going to have to help that girl out a lot. JK

The 6' half moons are hung from the ceiling, and made of heavy gauge wire fencing. I can only hope this proves to be inadequate! Each half moon is 5-6 running feet around the curve and four feet tall. Since I'll install the plant in the middle at 12-16" tall, it need grow only 3 more feet to reach each corner. This is very achievable with the strain I've chosen, a very stretchy sativa. The cylinder is not so tall that it completely alters the nature of the air following through it; at a canopy height of only 4 feet, it will have lots of room above to shed heat. Also, having only one bulb helps limit heat buildup. The fact that the bulb moves spreads the heat footprint, further attenuating its effects. Indeed, that's half the reason to move the bulb in the first place, the other half being that roving blast of super intense light!

Indeed my room is sealed and climate controlled, to maintain humidity and add co2. I built a vertical cooling tower with a muffin fan blowing down through an Icebox air/water heat exchanger and then down a 5' duct, depositing condensation into a tub beneath and cool air at floor level. At worst, the room will have to deal with the same heat that it did before but I believe the plants will absorb more of the energy, leaving less to be disposed of by the climate control system.

GanjaFunkExpress · Apr 8, 2013

good idea
cood exchange of ideas goin on in here also
i think its doable,
kinda novelty style, duno if ur revolutionizing growing or anything
but cool concept

ttystikk · Apr 8, 2013

Thanks for stopping by, gangjafunk! I agree, I think that for example, light movers have been misunderstood for a long time. I may have stumbled on a way to put them to their best use.

I also think that it is high time that we stop thinking about growing inside as some kind of miniaturized outdoor farm plot, and take better advantage of the three dimensional spaces we're growing in and lighting profiles of the equipment we're using.

Whether this particular experiment is a success or not, I hope to inspire a bit of curious rebellion in you, dear reader, to think about how you do things and wonder how it could be done better- and then try it!

AlterNation · Apr 8, 2013

60" centers/

Thanks for the correction! I was sure I wasn't getting that right.

I am a firm believer in KISS. One bulb inside holding heat,Heat rises moving air, hard to control RH%,Co2. Plant lit from 1 side, not as good. I Hate screens I feel it inhibits branch strength and growth. But a vert scrogg with double hung bulbs lit on both sides offset would eliminate popcorn and air movement common to growing trees. control rh, airflow, control hotspots etc. If you have a hard on for light movers you can float them up and down the rows.

A-Frame. When I saw that V and Arena-style thing, my first thought was an A frame with lighting on both sides and hedges on the wall. I'd grow on the ceiling if I could. All damn day. If you hooked it up on an elliptical track so the lights just rolled through, that would be even sicker.

The 6' half moons are hung from the ceiling, and made of heavy gauge wire fencing. I can only hope this proves to be inadequate! Each half moon is 5-6 running feet around the curve and four feet tall. Since I'll install the plant in the middle at 12-16" tall, it need grow only 3 more feet to reach each corner. This is very achievable with the strain I've chosen, a very stretchy sativa.

I can picture this. We think alike! I am really stoked to see how it turns out. Saves me the trouble of trying it myself, for now.

(I'm also new to the forum and don't know how to quote specific people. Tips?)

ttystikk · Apr 8, 2013

Look in help for tips on code in posts.

I've given a lot of thought to how all the pieces need to come together. Lots of people are offering great suggestions and insights, like Cap's recent comment about how the bud will grow inward from the trellis and that I needed to account for it. I agree, and so I believe I may go up in diameter to an even 4 feet, making each side 6.25' long, for a surface area of 24sq ft per side and 48 sq ft total.

If the layer of bud is a foot thick (if we're talking fat yields, it has to fit somewhere!), that means diameter falls by exactly half, as does surface area...

AlterNation · Apr 8, 2013

Yah look at his wall o dank thread, there's a great diagram in there.

ttystikk · Apr 8, 2013

I did indeed check out his wall o dank ideas. I stole much of what I'm up to with my grow can from him! If you're going to steal, steal from the best...

This is the heart of the matter; all my gro can really does is encircle Cap's wall o dank around one bulb. To keep the heat and light spread out and avoid bleaching, the light moves up and down. This also really helps eliminate leaf shading, so all parts of the plant get great lighting.

The toughest thing to come to grips with is the sheer size potential of plants grown this way, especially considering it's done with just one thouie.

Pancho-N-Lefty · Apr 8, 2013

This idea has been thrown around with a few in the circles I run with.
Cant wait to see how it works out.
GL bro... I hope u kill it!

pnL

One Flip · Apr 8, 2013

i was thinking about what Jalisco said about flat walls and rows. Cap's potato cannon looks like a fully loaded sheet of dank with not much spacing between buds. I couldn't imagine if his wall was curved that the colas wouldn't be fighting each other for space.. His wall is efficient because he is creating more sqft of canopy.. But it is a traditional flat canopy which has adequate spacing to let the middle finish.

I'm not a math guy but as the plants starts closing in on the bulb The surface sqft is going to be reduced. Will there still be enough spacing between buds as not to reduce the potential weight? How much stretch do you predict the plant will have from the outer trellis towards the plant? If things get squishy you will have a lot of nice surface tops but may not get any depth out of the plant.

Not sure if that makes sense

A long time ago a i used 6ft wheel that spins around 2k in a tube. The finished plants were probably 15" to 18" inches long.. as they grew into the center only the tops got good light and suffocated everything else out so it didn't turn out to be that much weight compared 2k horizontal.

One Flip · Apr 8, 2013

Now that I've had another shot of espresso. I liked your light movers on the exterior of the plant simply because as the plant grows out it gives room for the buds to go big! That was a much easier way to say it.. I am a coffee whore!

El Cerebro · Apr 8, 2013

muffin-fan, heh, heh heh, heh

octagons, heh heh heh, heh

ttystikk · Apr 8, 2013

One Flip said:
Now that I've had another shot of espresso. I liked your light movers on the exterior of the plant simply because as the plant grows out it gives room for the buds to go big! That was a much easier way to say it.. I am a coffee whore!

The trouble with that approach was that I was wasting 1/2 to 2/3 of the light from the bulb. I'm trying this approach to reduce wattage required per potato of output. What's a yield number that would make you go "wow!"?

One Flip · Apr 8, 2013

That's a tough question to answer. I equate man hours into the GPW ratio. Example. I know someone that has MS so it's tough for him to do a lot of work.. had to keep the set up and feed schedule simple.

11 x 11 room
6 - 600's
8" in
10" out
15 gal SP
Ocean w/chunky #4
Tiger
Big Bloom
Constant light feed. Nothing else added. Clean up and stake. Maybe throw some fresh water in there once in a while
8 1/2 potatoes every time.

Keep that in mind when you create your design to minimize the man hours. Sometimes that is more appealing than hitting 3 a LT.

With that being said.. I can't wait to jump down the rabbit hole!

ttystikk · Apr 8, 2013

One Flip said:
That's a tough question to answer. I equate man hours into the GPW ratio. Example. I know someone that has MS so it's tough for him to do a lot of work.. had to keep the set up and feed schedule simple.

11 x 11 room
6 - 600's
8" in
10" out
15 gal SP
Ocean w/chunky #4
Tiger
Big Bloom
Constant light feed. Nothing else added. Clean up and stake. Maybe throw some fresh water in there once in a while
8 1/2 potatoes every time.

Keep that in mind when you create your design to minimize the man hours. Sometimes that is more appealing than hitting 3 a LT.

With that being said.. I can't wait to jump down the rabbit hole!

As your example so aptly illustrates, it's all about the design goals. I am going for better efficiency; both in terms of watts used and floor space required. I'm hoping my setup won't be too hard to work on, but the only way to really know is to do it.

Capulator · Apr 8, 2013

I modified my most recent wall o dank to curve the trellis so that wherever there is a bulb, the screen is pulled tighter to the wall where the bulb is hanging. Trying to keep the flowers further from the light where they usually end up the closest... but as stated, theory is one thing and practice is another. I'm gonna have more work training this round for sure. I also had an idea similar to yours tty a little while back that if you want I can post here. I think it may benefit you actually.

ttystikk · Apr 8, 2013

Capulator said:
I modified my most recent wall o dank to curve the trellis so that wherever there is a bulb, the screen is pulled tighter to the wall where the bulb is hanging. Trying to keep the flowers further from the light where they usually end up the closest... but as stated, theory is one thing and practice is another. I'm gonna have more work training this round for sure. I also had an idea similar to yours tty a little while back that if you want I can post here. I think it may benefit you actually.

I would love to hear your ideas- even zany ones like hooking my feet to a light mover so I can hang down in the cylinders to train the plants! It sounds like a great Idea, I just need a remote control to turn the rotator on and off, lol.

Making waves in your wall o' dank is a very similar idea to the one that led me to the inside out approach.

ttystikk · Apr 8, 2013

Circumstances are pushing me in the direction of a somewhat lesser test of this system; instead of going full tilt with a whole room's worth of these things without any experience, I'm going to do just one first. It will be a full sized device, with no compromises for its one-off status. It will still be in a sealed room, with full climate control, co2 supplementation, etc.

This will give me the chance to pay even more careful attention to it, play with it, and tweak it. All to be documented here!

Jalisco Kid · Apr 8, 2013

Running only one will severely limit an experiment, having 2 or more would allow you to try some variables If one plant died for no known reason you would have more to go on. You might just blame the sys rather then the real cause. JK

ttystikk · Apr 8, 2013

Jalisco Kid said:
Running only one will severely limit an experiment, having 2 or more would allow you to try some variables If one plant died for no known reason you would have more to go on. You might just blame the sys rather then the real cause. JK

Nah. I've been at this long enough to know when I fucked up! Running more than one risks a poor harvest due to something I could have picked up on or fixed if I had any prior experience at all. Besides, my design calls for two plants per cylinder; one on each side. Sort of a built-in control if one plant goes strange on me.

Capulator · Apr 8, 2013

each three plant section on casters with fixed screens. 3, 1k down the middle, or double stack 600's. can be opened to access. 6 plants. potential harvest: 6 potatoes.

needed footprint: 7' x 14' x 10' ceiling (for 1' access all the way around when closed): area : 98 sq. ft.

canopy area: 225 sq. ft. assuming 6' tall screens.

expandable: yes.

self contained with individual res/pump etc: yes.

30" wide can be pushed from veg room to flower room.

Oh My God, He Turned It INSIDE OUT!!!

Oh My God, He Turned It INSIDE OUT!!!

Am I nuts? Or, does an inside-out tree make sense to you?

He's whack! No way will this work.

Plants can put up with a lot, but this isn't going anywhere.

Anything is possible- it could work, right?

I like it, but it's no revolution.

This is the Future of indoor gardening!

ttystikk

GanjaFunkExpress

ttystikk

AlterNation

ttystikk

AlterNation

ttystikk

Pancho-N-Lefty

One Flip

Moderator

One Flip

Moderator

El Cerebro

ttystikk

One Flip

Moderator

ttystikk

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

ttystikk

ttystikk

Jalisco Kid

Guest

ttystikk

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Oh My God, He Turned It INSIDE OUT!!!

Oh My God, He Turned It INSIDE OUT!!!

Am I nuts? Or, does an inside-out tree make sense to you?

He's whack! No way will this work.

Plants can put up with a lot, but this isn't going anywhere.

Anything is possible- it could work, right?

I like it, but it's no revolution.

This is the Future of indoor gardening!

ttystikk

GanjaFunkExpress

ttystikk

AlterNation

ttystikk

AlterNation

ttystikk

Pancho-N-Lefty

One Flip

Moderator

One Flip

Moderator

El Cerebro

ttystikk

One Flip

Moderator

ttystikk

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

ttystikk

ttystikk

Jalisco Kid

Guest

ttystikk

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

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