Dabominable
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There is another thread about Osa28..I believe the dilution rate is extremely low, because its amazingly concentrated. I Believe it comes out to cheaper then armor si. IIRC the rate was 1ml per gallon. So if you think of it like that, a little 150ml bottle, would make 150 gallons. You need to do the breakdown cost before you write something off. Just like bloombastic. costly, but at 1-4ml a gallon it goes a ridiculously long way. I know for sure i plan on trying the Osa28 once i'm out of my gallon of ArmorSi. Also, i believe there are charts and testimonials that back this product up 100%. There is not a more readily available silica source then this OSA28, from what i've gathered, but i still plan on trying it sometime soon.
i think this is very ill informing. OSA/orthosilicic acid is immediately bioavailable to the plant, but that's not the same as mixing potassium silicate + humic. just because humic is a type of chelating agent that makes other certain non-available nutrients available to the plant doesnt mean the mode of action is the same.Rather, i should say its the most immediately available silica product on the market. It acts as silica would if you added humic added. For lack of a better word its like chelated liquid silica.
i think this is very ill informing. OSA/orthosilicic acid is immediately bioavailable to the plant, but that's not the same as mixing potassium silicate + humic. just because humic is a type of chelating agent that makes other certain non-available nutrients available to the plant doesnt mean the mode of action is the same.
unless im missing some researching, i dont believe humic acid makes normal potassium silicate (as the form i believe youre referring to) immediately available.
Thank you for that. To confirm what you said, most growers need an active microbial medium to break down potassium silicate for plant absorption?
SiO2 + 2 H2O ↔ H4SiO4(aq)
It is called hydrolysis, and there is no microbe needed. Proper dilution in water is all that is required to change the silicon anions in concentrated potassium silicate solutions to silicic acid.
Silicification is the process in which organic matter becomes saturated with silica.
You are talking about things you do not understand. Trying to make your product sound superior by making stuff up.
In general, as concentrated alkali metal silicate solutions are diluted (to a lower limit of ~330 ppm), the pH and [OH- ] are reduced, and silicate ions hydrolyze to form larger polymeric species along with a lower SiO2/Na2O ratio silicate [9]. As stated by Iler [10](pg.20): “When a solution of soluble silicate, which is always highly alkaline, is neutralized by acid to a pH below about 10.7, the silicate ions decompose to silicic acid [Si(OH)4], which then polymerizes to silica.”
However, for very dilute solutions (< 300 ppm SiO2) as in the case of drinking water applications (4-25 ppm SiO2), essentially complete depolymerization occurs and monomer (i.e., Si(OH)4 and HSiO3) is the dominant species. For example, upon adding a sodium silicate solution (SiO2/Na2O =3.22, ~400,000 ppm SiO2) to water, Lehrman and Shuldener observed that for dilutions of 14, 70, 140, and 350 ppm SiO2, only a few percentof the silica at most was in colloidal form whereas the majority was molybdate-reactive (i.e., monomer). According to the authors, these equilibria were reached very rapidly, “probably instantaneously.”
Orthosilicic acid is stable in water at room temperature as long as its concentration remains below the solubility limit of the amorphous phase , which is about 120 ppm SiO2. This is more than adequate for plant fertilization. As has been shown in many research publications by the effectiveness of potassium silicate to supply plant available silicon. Only when you attempt to concentrate the silicic acid above the solubility limit(saturated solution), at biological pH values, do you need to consider stabilization. Soluble silicates are stable because of their high pH, and because at these high pH values the silicic acid dissociates into silicate anions. If you try to lower the pH of a concentrated silicate solution, you get polymerization. But if you dilute the polymers below the solubility limit of 100 ppm SiO2, you get silicic acid at biological pH values. Water is the source of the hydrogen(acid) in the hydrolysis reaction.
potassium silicates preform even better in solution than sodium silicates, so the above quote is certainly pertinent.
and i still say you are making up the part where you claim microbes play a role in the de-polymerization
Thank you for that. To confirm what you said, most growers need an active microbial medium to break down potassium silicate for plant absorption?
Yup exactly... time+microbes. And specific microbes. Just adding a compost tea or other product isn't necessarily enough. There are very specific silicon fixing bacteria that seem to be most important but I haven't seen much great research, such as is available on nitrogen fixing bacteria.
So are you trying to clarify your answer to chingling's question?
Because your original answer was incorrect and convoluted.
My point is that simple dilution of soluble silicates such as soluble potassium silicates, ie Agsil 25, AgSil 16H, Dynagro Pro-tekt ect, is all that is needed to change the silicate anions into Silicic acid(plant available silicon).
If you limit the concentration of silicon in solution to below the solubility of the amorphous phase( ~120ppm SiO2) you do not have to concern yourself with fancy stabilization techniques like adding PEG 400 at ~40% of the solution.
So when you told chingling that microbes were necessary for potassium silicate to become plant available silicon, you were wrong.
It is correct to say that silicate anions are not plant available, however when properly diluted the silicate anions are hydrolysed and silicic acid is formed. This silicic acid is stable and should not polymerize so long as the concentration is kept below ~120ppm SiO2.
Now the research that i have read shows that for hydroponics and continuous feed systems, the concentration of SiO2 in the fertilizer working solution can be limited to ~50ppm SiO2 or less, and plants receive benefit.
link1, link2, link3
At your products labeled rate of 0.5 mL per gallon, OSA28 provides ~3 ppm SiO2 (this assumes a specific density of 1.1). I am almost certain my well water has more than that already.
The research i have seen on stabilized silicic acid formulations has been in reference to its efficacy as a foliar to increase plant uptake of silicon and as a plant pathogen suppressant.
link4, link5, link6, link7
from:Root applications of potassium silicate at a concentration of 1.7 mM gave the best results in terms of Si absorption and disease control regardless of the source
Both potassium silicate solutions(Kasil and Silamol) had a good impact on disease control by root application. As reported previously, Kasil provided an excellent control of powdery mildew on wheat (Bélanger et al, 2003), but Silamol, a formulation of potassium silicate, chelated with PEG400, and branded for foliar use was just as efficient when used as a soil amendment at an equal dose of 1.7 mM Si.
I say yes in my personal opinion,the difference for me anyways was i put the agsil in my mix for 4 weeks or so before i use it the first time and just amend as needed after that so it takes a little planning ahead but the savings is HUGE.I have plants side by side in veg right now that half i used Osa28 on and the other half agsil amended soil and i cant see one difference and it is not just me,Im pretty sure @Billyboat and others have had the same results.So in laymans terms for guys like me LOL, does this mean that products like agsil are just as effective as these expensive products like Aptus and OSA28 ?
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