Our Aquaponics System...

[motherlode]

Ewps...oh yeah, GIMP just shit the bed, too.

dont shit the bed!

What's the difference between crawdaddies and crayfish? I thought they were pretty much the same thing--a freshwater mud bug.

I think they're the same--
they just grow bigger in the warmer weather/water down south...

yep - all types of bugs are bigger down south

 

[Joe Fresh]

I think they're the same--
they just grow bigger in the warmer weather/water down south...

yeah very possible, i was under the assumption that crawdaddys are the slightly bigger cousins of crayfish

 

[fishwhistle]

There are tons of crawdads in the lakes and streams of the sierras sea,also i think sunfish like crappie,bluegill and largemouth would work well in there,maybe even a few trout in the winter when the water cools.Gonna need some kind of netting over the top,one cormorant finds it and your fish are done gone within 24 hours,Thats a big ass reservoir dave should have put a window in the side,lol.The little mahindra dave scored is really coming in handy,deal of the century.

 

[Seamaiden]

So wanna do this. Just not sure what fish would thrive well in this climate. May have to set something up in a greenhouse.

I forgot to address this. What's your climate/zone? IIRC, you're in SoCal. If that's the case, you can legally keep tilapia.

There are tons of crawdads in the lakes and streams of the sierras sea,also i think sunfish like crappie,bluegill and largemouth would work well in there,maybe even a few trout in the winter when the water cools.Gonna need some kind of netting over the top,one cormorant finds it and your fish are done gone within 24 hours,Thats a big ass reservoir dave should have put a window in the side,lol.The little mahindra dave scored is really coming in handy,deal of the century.

Originally we were thinking about doing largemouth, but after doing some reading it seems we might have a problem keeping them fed well enough to get to any decent weight within a reasonable amount of time. Also, breeding more may be problematic. I'm not sure how we'll get bluegill to breed, if they're like pumpkinseeds they need a sandy bottom to make a nest, and their nests are at least 3' across. If I liked the flavor of trout, I'd seriously consider it. For some reason I just don't care for it.

I thought about a window! And yes, we're going to be putting up a screen, but I'd prefer to enclose the whole thing if at all possible so that I would be afforded year-round growing. I love that Mahindra!

 

[CelticEBE]

I forgot to address this. What's your climate/zone? IIRC, you're in SoCal. If that's the case, you can legally keep tilapia.


Originally we were thinking about doing largemouth, but after doing some reading it seems we might have a problem keeping them fed well enough to get to any decent weight within a reasonable amount of time. Also, breeding more may be problematic. I'm not sure how we'll get bluegill to breed, if they're like pumpkinseeds they need a sandy bottom to make a nest, and their nests are at least 3' across. If I liked the flavor of trout, I'd seriously consider it. For some reason I just don't care for it.

I thought about a window! And yes, we're going to be putting up a screen, but I'd prefer to enclose the whole thing if at all possible so that I would be afforded year-round growing. I love that Mahindra!

I'm up in the northern part of the triangle now Sea. Average temps here are mid 60's. From what little research I have done trout and salmon are my best bet.

 

[rubthe nub]

I would think you'd be able to pull off tilapia, maybe you're to high elevation
Perhaps a different species of cichlid would work.
I believe there are a few deep water species that can take quite a bit of cold
Maybe a heater, solar powered one even.

 

[motherlode]

The little mahindra dave scored is really coming in handy,deal of the century.

I love that Mahindra!

round here that is known as a hillbilly hoveround

 

[pinegrovedave]

Purchasing that Mahindra was probably one of the best decisions in purchasing. It really took our ability to do major projects on the property to the next level. I have to say that it is really nice being able to simply "hop on" to your tractor and move thousands of pounds of material without having to shell out 3-400 dollars every time I needed one...know what I mean? Not to mention having to get the "rental" back to the yard by 8AM on Monday morning lest we incur another days worth of charges.

 

[Seamaiden]

I'm up in the northern part of the triangle now Sea. Average temps here are mid 60's. From what little research I have done trout and salmon are my best bet.

Yeah, I might have to agree, EXCEPT, these outfits also sell white sturgeon. I could *totally* eat me some sturgeon, but we just don't have the space for behemoths like that.

I would think you'd be able to pull off tilapia, maybe you're to high elevation
Perhaps a different species of cichlid would work.
I believe there are a few deep water species that can take quite a bit of cold
Maybe a heater, solar powered one even.

Celtic and us are north of the Tehachapi Range, so legally we can't culture tilapia (and, we'd have to go down south to get them). If we were talking salties, I'd know exactly what animals I could keep and which I couldn't.

Has anyone got any Cornu aspersum, live, that they'd be willing to part with?

 

[rubthe nub]

OIC, it's not climate, it's legal issue. Major difference there
You don't want to get in bad with DNR or Fish & Wildlife or whatever they call them out west.

What about stripped bass? I saw you mentioned large mouth bass, I believe strippers are better for farming.
Without tilapia or a different specie of cichlid I'm not sure you'll be able to reach 100% sustainability, ala bio dome:)
Choice for mouth brooders is kind of slim and that's about the only type of spawn I think would have a chance,fwiw.

You might be better off with stocking and restocking. Stagger the times you stock to spread the cost and have fish
at different stages of maturity

 

[Seamaiden]

You don't want to get in bad with DNR or Fish & Wildlife or whatever they call them out west.

No you do not! A former trade contact did so, importing Mexican angelfishes to the US, got himself in a HEAP of trouble. I've known others who were caught with things like alligator gar and got dinged.

What about stripped bass? I saw you mentioned large mouth bass, I believe strippers are better for farming.
Without tilapia or a different specie of cichlid I'm not sure you'll be able to reach 100% sustainability, ala bio dome:)
Choice for mouth brooders is kind of slim and that's about the only type of spawn I think would have a chance,fwiw.

I can't find stripeys for sale via the two outfits I've found as aquaponics suppliers. I have another former trade buddy who's gone from mariculture to aquaponics, and HE is finally looking into the animal I've been saying for years would be fantastic in this scenario, assuming environmental factors are tolerable--pacu--a relative of the piranha. Reproduction is one of the reasons why I felt we should reconsider the largemouth, without a large, more natural pond I don't see it really working out. That doesn't mean I don't want to have a go at getting our animals to reproduce, but we may have to set up a small brooder/breeding barrel or similar.

Right now my plan is exactly as you suggest--stagger stocking times.
This will accomplish a few goals. First, it will help maintain a more even fish load. Second, it will allow us to more easily harvest what we'll be using when we plan on using it, which is the ultimate in freshness. Third, less initial load on the system, which probably shoulda been first... :o

 

[Potato Pipe]

People tell us to just fish 'em out of the lakes/rezzies, but my first thoughts are that we have no way to quarantine, and disease would be exceedingly difficult to control in this scenario without QTing the animals.

QT is easy. Just hit up craigslist for a used 40 or 60 gallon tank, run it bare bottom with sponge filters, then quarantine for two weeks. If you do end up needing to use meds then sponge filters and a bare tank are easy-peasy to clean out before you add your next set of fish to be QT'd. No need for a heater if you keep the QT tank in an interior area...you just want to avoid temp extremes while they are still under the stress of acclimating to a new environment.

I'd still recommend doing a QT on any fish you add to a aquaponics system unless your supplier is able/willing to pre-QT your fish for a few weeks before delivering them. Mainly because you don't want to go and add medications that can kill your beneficial bacteria (for the nitrogen cycling) to your main system.

You can also use landscape fabric to cover that pond and reduce evaporation. Cheap option but I used it all the time for customer's ponds and it usually does an ok job of keeping out pests that can decimate your fish population (storks and other large birds were always the number one pest problem for all of my customers).

 

[rubthe nub]

QT is easy. Just hit up craigslist for a used 40 or 60 gallon tank, run it bare bottom with sponge filters, then quarantine for two weeks. If you do end up needing to use meds then sponge filters and a bare tank are easy-peasy to clean out before you add your next set of fish to be QT'd. No need for a heater if you keep the QT tank in an interior area...you just want to avoid temp extremes while they are still under the stress of acclimating to a new environment.

I'd still recommend doing a QT on any fish you add to a aquaponics system unless your supplier is able/willing to pre-QT your fish for a few weeks before delivering them. Mainly because you don't want to go and add medications that can kill your beneficial bacteria (for the nitrogen cycling) to your main system.

You can also use landscape fabric to cover that pond and reduce evaporation. Cheap option but I used it all the time for customer's ponds and it usually does an ok job of keeping out pests that can decimate your fish population (storks and other large birds were always the number one pest problem for all of my customers).

The idea here is to EAT the fish

Would you want to eat fish that have been through that?
Malachite Green, copper sulfate, potassium permanganate, thank you very much but I'll pass.......

 

[showmegreen]

Nice. Jed Clampet would be impressed with yer concrete (and timber) pond. I'd try ta use crappie if I were you. The mutated cichlids we call "bluegill" are too hardy anymore. Yer tank could be diseased with nuclear waste and everything dead an gone, an Mr. Bluegill swims along jus fine. Sun perch would do jus right or like ya said crappie..jf. Mud grubs gotta have their mud and a place ta dig a well so I don't know if they'd be kosher. Worth tryin though. Ya ever plant yer corn first then yer pole beans then yer squash/melon all in that same area? They help each other along real nice. Here in that bible belt we call that a trinity. See in you limited on space that'd work right nice fer ya. Aquaponics bringing mother nature to tha concrete jungles. I've started buildin somethin like it just gotta nip an pinch at it though, ain't got tha funds justa hole up an build one like y'all researched and did. Sooooooo fuggin sweet. Keep this thread Rollin I just hammered my chair down to tha floor.

 

[Potato Pipe]

@rubthe nub Running a QT gives you the option of medicating your fish without compromising your entire system. That is why I said, "If you do end up needing to use meds". It also gives you the opportunity to separate and observe fish because of aggression (giving or receiving) or to help ensure that fry aren't going to be gobbled up in the main system (especially since the OP's system isn't that big).

I've done QT's for ponds and aquaponics systems for more than a decade. About 50-75% of the time the fish need nothing at all (just stay on top of water quality for those two weeks). Probably another 20-30% of the time the fish do well with a combo of salt and aloe vera for broad range bacterial treatment and prevent stress during acclimation. The other 5% ended up getting treated with potassium permanganate (which isn't toxic unless you are rubbing it on your skin or drinking toxic levels of it). KMnO4 at low doses is even used to remove pesticides from veggies at low doses so I really don't think it belongs grouped together with those other chemicals you listed. I have had to use KM with sunfish species more than with other pond and aquaponics species because I lived in an area that was warm pretty much all year round and contamination for gill flukes from the fish farms were a constant issue.

 

[MrBelvedere]

I never realized bluegill were in sunfish family.... Growing up sunnys were pretty much all we would catch, no idea they were related. Redbreast Sunnys taste a little better than bluegill to me.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/fish-farming-zmaz83mjzraw.aspx

 

[Seamaiden]

The idea here is to EAT the fish

Would you want to eat fish that have been through that?
Malachite Green, copper sulfate, potassium permanganate, thank you very much but I'll pass.......

I'm not sure about the potassium permanganate, it's something I used to use for clearing ponds back in the day (and staining my clothes purple). But those other meds you mention are not allowed in US aquaculture. They're not necessarily needed, either. For example, if you suspect external parasites a saltwater dip is a great tool (and for salties, a freshwater dip) here.

I'd whip out my fishkeeping credentials, but they kinda point right to me in a personal way, if you get my drift. I've done everything from hobbyist level to large scale import/export (if anyone watches Tanked, I hear they've taken folks on tours of outfits on 104th like Sea Dwelling Creatures... maybe to Walt Smith's coral lab? I don't know, I don't watch the show myself), to the Long Beach Aquarium of the Pacific. But! There's a different paradigm going on in aquaculture and aquaponics, so I'm here to learn just as much as anyone else. I just REALLY really wish we had room to grow at least one cannabis plant.

Nice. Jed Clampet would be impressed with yer concrete (and timber) pond. I'd try ta use crappie if I were you. The mutated cichlids we call "bluegill" are too hardy anymore. Yer tank could be diseased with nuclear waste and everything dead an gone, an Mr. Bluegill swims along jus fine. Sun perch would do jus right or like ya said crappie..jf. Mud grubs gotta have their mud and a place ta dig a well so I don't know if they'd be kosher. Worth tryin though. Ya ever plant yer corn first then yer pole beans then yer squash/melon all in that same area? They help each other along real nice. Here in that bible belt we call that a trinity. See in you limited on space that'd work right nice fer ya. Aquaponics bringing mother nature to tha concrete jungles. I've started buildin somethin like it just gotta nip an pinch at it though, ain't got tha funds justa hole up an build one like y'all researched and did. Sooooooo fuggin sweet. Keep this thread Rollin I just hammered my chair down to tha floor.

Yeah, these are fish with which my only experience has been freshwater scuba diving. It sounds like they're the carp of the cichlid world, although most cichlids are pretty damned hardy I'd say. Discus are one of the exceptions. Anyway, when I was in Puerto Rico the husband of one of my cousins showed me his set-up. They're in San Juan so all outdoor space comes at a premium--he set up tubes over a 30gal bin, hung the tubes from his fence. Did great but he wasn't using fish, nutrients only so really more of a hydro situation, but it was nothing more than a pump, a few pieces of PVC and that cheap little bin.

Yes, I've done the three sisters, but it was a bit of a mess and the corn didn't take too well, I had to tassle it all and didn't do as good a job as just planting thickly does.

@rubthe nub Running a QT gives you the option of medicating your fish without compromising your entire system. That is why I said, "If you do end up needing to use meds". It also gives you the opportunity to separate and observe fish because of aggression (giving or receiving) or to help ensure that fry aren't going to be gobbled up in the main system (especially since the OP's system isn't that big).

I've done QT's for ponds and aquaponics systems for more than a decade. About 50-75% of the time the fish need nothing at all (just stay on top of water quality for those two weeks). Probably another 20-30% of the time the fish do well with a combo of salt and aloe vera for broad range bacterial treatment and prevent stress during acclimation. The other 5% ended up getting treated with potassium permanganate (which isn't toxic unless you are rubbing it on your skin or drinking toxic levels of it). KMnO4 at low doses is even used to remove pesticides from veggies at low doses so I really don't think it belongs grouped together with those other chemicals you listed. I have had to use KM with sunfish species more than with other pond and aquaponics species because I lived in an area that was warm pretty much all year round and contamination for gill flukes from the fish farms were a constant issue.

I already have a few kiddie pools on hand, I've done plenty of work using those and they're a sight cheaper and sturdier than a glass tank (which I'd have to find a flat place for in any event). I'm a huge proponent of QT, so it won't take much to convince me of its utility.

Got any suggestions for a 1,500gal+ system in terms of starting numbers? I was thinking about starting off with 2doz 2"-3" bluegill or redeared sunfish (I'm after best eating, apparently all these fish are fairly bony, yes?) along with a few hundred mosquitofish, keeping in mind that I also have mealworms on hand.

 

[showmegreen]

Red ear perch are good eat'n. Hell all of'em are if the still live when ya butcher'em and of course the water's clean. Boney? If yer starving, ain't nuthin too boney. People try ta fillet them lil suckers an only come up with a Mc nuglet of a piece o fish. I jus cut their heads off behind tha gill plates. Slice her belly down from decapitation hole ta a!#hole, gut it,then take a spoon backwards to the scales. Check fer bitty scales behind an aroun tha fins and ridges an washem in fresh cold clean water. Then when they good an cooked (how ever ya do'r) the meat flakes right off them wee lil bones. Always keep a slic'er two of bread case ya miss'un o tha belly spined. Helps drag tha bone down.
Ya Discus are sensitive lil buggers. My Popps was one of three in Missouri that got'em to spawn back in tha early 70's late 60's. He was proud of that feat. Used ta import all kinds of kinds from other country's ta the US, sellin'em ta pet shops. Used ta build his own tanks n tha like. That that discus tank was made of plywood (waterproofed) with jus a lil winder ta peek through. Thing was full of hair algea an two coffee cup plate size discus. Then there was a bunch of itty bitties swummin around. Neat shit now I thank about it. To be honest. IMO an from experience with regular dirt type ponds, Id start with some minows first at least couple hundred. Gives them perch or wat not sumpthin ta keep their minds busy. If ya thank'in food ya ain't board an thank'in bout feeling sick. Plus them lil fishes are prit sensitive to water climates and if they start die'n yer at less of a loss financially and ya know not to put yer future supper in yet. Also them lil buggers will eat all tha skeeter larvea you can chuck at'em. We round here got them viruses from tha west side of tha Nile river n such so we gotta watch wat bugs er bite'n us. Id get different sizes of dinner fish too cuz two ta three inchers are gonna take a minute ta git dinner size. An yer gonna wanna try yer food factory sooner than later. Plus they breed on tha moon phase so ya wanna have some mature ones ta kickofft tha replenishing of food source. That's jus my two sense. That's all I got fer naw.
Oh wait. You gotta plant yer corn n such couple weeks ahead o each other. OK naw that'd be all I got fer naw. Have a blessed day y'all!

 

[Seamaiden]

If ya thank'in food ya ain't board an thank'in bout feeling sick.

You've noticed my bit about fish in the sig line, yes? Old Dougy taught me that. That, and "get yer GODDAMN HANDS OUTTA THA TANK!"

I haven't got any room for corn at this point, plus, this time of year it's stupid cheap, even for organic.

Plus them lil fishes are prit sensitive to water climates and if they start die'n yer at less of a loss financially and ya know not to put yer future supper in yet. Also them lil buggers will eat all tha skeeter larvea you can chuck at'em. We round here got them viruses from tha west side of tha Nile river n such so we gotta watch wat bugs er bite'n us.

Are they? I'll keep that in mind (regarding water quality). We have West Nile virus out here, too, but the one that really scares me, as I've lost a family member to it, is dengue. Also Lyme disease, but the fish can't help me there, that's the job of my chickenbirds.

Id get different sizes of dinner fish too cuz two ta three inchers are gonna take a minute ta git dinner size. An yer gonna wanna try yer food factory sooner than later. Plus they breed on tha moon phase so ya wanna have some mature ones ta kickofft tha replenishing of food source. That's jus my two sense. That's all I got fer naw.

I was thinking about the size thing, thanks for giving me a good shove in that direction. I bet they'll cook up even better if you leave the heads on. Just sayin' (and, it was how I was brought up, there's good eatin' in the heads!).

 

[km1]

my bro is doing aquaponics [for the last year]

yellow perch, crappie..tomato's, lettuce..lots of fun..would be nice to see herb!