Outdoor Soil Prep Help

[XxShibbyxX]

Hi guys!

Well Im going to be doing some outdoor this season and I just had some bulk "premium organic topsoil" delivered.

Ive been reading alot getting ready for the season so I thought I would come ask some of the pros what they thought.

The blend I had delivered is 60/40 humus/fill sand.

I was thinking of going with something along the lines of Tom Hills recipe which is:

25 bags black gold potting soil (1.5cf ea)

4 bags stutzman farms chicken manure (1 cf ea)

1 bag perlite (4 cf ea)

1 bag (50 lbs) bonemeal (steamed, not precipitated)

1/2 bag gypsum (aprox 1/2 cf) - Edit -> 1/2 of a 40 lb bag (20lbs).


The only difference would be I would be using my own soil vs. black gold.

My questions are:

Is my 60/40 humus/fill sand blend ok to use with this recipe? I would also be adding in kelp and maybe a few other things.

Based on my blend what would be the right amount of dry fertilizers to add to it per cubic yard?

I also have some great white Id like to water into the soil should I wait until it gets warmer before I do this so they can colonize the soil?

Does the fill sand in my blend take away the need for perlite?

Sorry for all the questions I have a huge pile of soil sitting and I wanna get mixing but not before I get some solid answers :) Im sure Ill think of some more later on as well :harvest:

 

[Seamaiden]

Hi guys!

Well Im going to be doing some outdoor this season and I just had some bulk "premium organic topsoil" delivered.

Ive been reading alot getting ready for the season so I thought I would come ask some of the pros what they thought.

The blend I had delivered is 60/40 humus/fill sand.

I was thinking of going with something along the lines of Tom Hills recipe which is:

25 bags black gold potting soil (1.5cf ea)

4 bags stutzman farms chicken manure (1 cf ea)

1 bag perlite (4 cf ea)

1 bag (50 lbs) bonemeal (steamed, not precipitated)

1/2 bag gypsum (aprox 1/2 cf) - Edit -> 1/2 of a 40 lb bag (20lbs).


The only difference would be I would be using my own soil vs. black gold.

My questions are:

Is my 60/40 humus/fill sand blend ok to use with this recipe? I would also be adding in kelp and maybe a few other things.

Based on my blend what would be the right amount of dry fertilizers to add to it per cubic yard?

I also have some great white Id like to water into the soil should I wait until it gets warmer before I do this so they can colonize the soil?

Does the fill sand in my blend take away the need for perlite?

Sorry for all the questions I have a huge pile of soil sitting and I wanna get mixing but not before I get some solid answers :) Im sure Ill think of some more later on as well :harvest:

Wow... hm, where to start? Ok, was that actually top SOIL you had delivered, or what? You're calling it a 60/40 humus/sand blend, and that's not soil in my book. Without discussing quantities (we did truckloads), here is what my own planter is filled with.

This is soil.

This year my planter will be amended with the following:

Bone meal
Kelp meal
Alfalfa (the sweepings, not spending good $$ on meal)
Guanos
Gardener & Bloom Organic mix (because my local garden center can't get Dr. Earth anymore, so G&B is the next best thing)
G&B Harvest Supreme, as a thick mulch
Rice hulls (I'll probably wet them and pre-sprout because I use animal bedding type, isn't cleaned quite as well as the horticultural products)
Urine (yes, you read that right, my own and that of whomever else isn't taking Rx meds and is willing to piss in my planter)

UNLESS this mix is going to be containerized, I personally see absolutely zero need to use perlite. If you feel the mix must be lightened up, may I suggest trying rice hulls instead? They'll provide potassium silicate as well as lightening up the mix and eventually will be used by soil biology.

 

[XxShibbyxX]

Hi sea thanks for stopping by.

Im going to be making my own planters out of the landscape fabric and some fencing. Probably along the lines of chicken wire. Ill have about 6-8 300 gallon containers and the rest will be 100 gallon containers im thinking. So since the blend i bought has fill sand i dont need any perlite? They will basically be smart pots but diy.

I also bought liquid guanos to make aerated active compost tea.

Was thinking of mixing guano, rhizotonic or liquid karma and ewc for my teas to feed every watering or at least every other watering... What do you think about the tea idea as well?

 

[XxShibbyxX]

Oh sea the place i got it from labeled it as organic premium topsoil. When i called and found out the blend i was a little surprised it only had humus/fill sand but oh well nothing another trip to the store cant fix lol

 

[Mogrow]

like the idea of hte DIY smartpot, was thinking the same thing myself. what about some vermiculite, soil in a container drys out fast... tom hills knows his stuff and he doesn't use vermiculite???? maybe he goes straight into mother earth. getting the right mix was got me up at night, i have a grow planned with smartpots and i've never grown in a container.. YIKES..
peace mogrow

 

[XxShibbyxX]

Im not sure on the exact reason he doesnt use vermiculite but i know perlite is more inert as far as putting something in for drainage that wont mess up anything. Like i said im not 100% sure im kinda baked and on my phone so i cant check right now lol

 

[Seamaiden]

like the idea of hte DIY smartpot, was thinking the same thing myself. what about some vermiculite, soil in a container drys out fast... tom hills knows his stuff and he doesn't use vermiculite???? maybe he goes straight into mother earth. getting the right mix was got me up at night, i have a grow planned with smartpots and i've never grown in a container.. YIKES..
peace mogrow

Vermiculite is yet another mined, processed, non-renewable/sustainable product. It's not needed. Those are 100-300 gallon pots he's planning on working with, if there's a problem with them drying out he can take other measures besides messing around with vermiculite.

However, I have a 4'cu bag of the shit sitting in my garage. Want it?

Im not sure on the exact reason he doesnt use vermiculite but i know perlite is more inert as far as putting something in for drainage that wont mess up anything. Like i said im not 100% sure im kinda baked and on my phone so i cant check right now lol

No need for perlite, and if you feel your mix is too heavy then try rice hulls, they'll actually add something besides volume to the mix.

Teas are great, I prefer to make my own rather than using specialty bottled products. You will find that going the size you're planning you're going to want to make tea in much larger volumes than you are accustomed to. Get a few trash cans for this, and a sump pump perhaps (depending on how far your girls will be from your tea-making area).

I forgot to mention that you should go with dolomitic lime instead of gypsum. Oyster shell flour (the stuff they feed to chickens to make their egg shells form properly) is another one that can be used, but I can't remember if it provides any magnesium. If it doesn't, then MgSO4 (Epsom) can easily be added to the mix.

Be prepared for incredibly stinky teas when using guanos and the like. Also, if you can get yourself the book, read Teaming With Microbes, it will help you understand what critters you want to cultivate and how. I think you already know to feed the soil, not the plants, but this book is a fantastic primer on how it all fits together and helps you understand what sorts of microbes you want to culture. For instance, lots of cannabis growers are focused on mycorrhizae, and that's all well and good, but nitrifying bacteria actually play a large role as well, even more so for annuals (veggies, cannabis). Molasses and simple sugars in the teas will help with that.

Now I can't remember all your questions, but hopefully I've answered a few for you. Hopefully Blaze will see this, too, because he's helped me learn a great deal, too, especially for growing organic. Ohsogreen, too, in a big way.

 

[XxShibbyxX]

Thanks sea thats alot of good info as always.

Hopefully some more people chime in

 

[Blaze]

Hey XxShibbyxX, I think Seamaiden is steering you in the right direction. What is the "best" soil prep is very subjective. It is a very complex subject and I certainly don't claim to be an expert. However I think your basic plan is sound and you seen to have a good idea about what makes for good soil. Here is my two cents:

You want a high content of humus (organic matter) which is provided by compost (not to be confused with composted manure, there is a difference though both do contain organic matter.) The Black Gold will provide some of this but you may want to consider adding something in addition to the chicken manure, such as mushroom compost. In general, the more complex your compost is, the greater range of soil organisms it will support, and the better your plants will do. Also be careful when using manures, the MUST be properly composted or they will be to hot or can contain pathogens. Be selective about where you get your compost, manure and soil!

I also would agree with Sea that you do not need vermiculite or perlite. Neither add much to the soil and there are better and cheaper alternatives out there. Also vermiculite tends to settle to the bottom of you soil over time, and perlite tends to raise to the top. Better alternatives are rock, contractors sand, and rice hulls. Rocks of different sizes are a great way to increase drainage, they tend to stay more stationary and not float to the top as much as perlite, and the provide trace minerals to the soil. They are also usually very cheap, or even free.

Rice hulls also provide silicate, and break down slowly and provide drainage and aeration. However be sure to not use too many! They also hold a lot of water and can make you soil soggy and poorly drained if too much are used. They also can act as a Nitrogen sink and actually pull the N right out of the soil if too much is used and the carbon/nitrogen ration of the soil is out of wack. Always be sure to use parboiled rice hulls as well - you do not want tons of rice seed sprouting in your soil. Rice hulls can also be a haven for all sort of nasty pathogens, another reason why you should IMO always use parboiled rice hulls. They are a great soil amendment, just do not use too many and you will be fine.

Gypsum can be a good addition to your soil, but not if your goal is to add Calcium. Gypsum works well in clay soils to help fluff it up and increase drainage and aeration, but it does NOT add calcium. Though it does contain calcium, it is in a form that is not available to plants, so use dolomite lime if you need Ca in your soil mix.

This was what I used this last year in my garden:

Pre made OMRI listed soil from a local company made with horse and cow manure to supply basic nutrients; grape and apple pomace which are high in beneficial bacteria and yeasts to aid with the breakdown of organic matter; rice hulls and straw for good soil tilth; soft rock phosphate and greensand to boost the phosphorous and potassium, sandy loam soil, 1/4- Fir bark, crushed red lava rock and a little soil sulfur. In addition to this we added contractors sand (1/8"-1/4" rock, not really sand) large lava rock (1/2"-1") more rice hulls, gypsum, and earthworm castings.

Did it work well? Yes. Could it have been better? Yes. It was low in Ca so I need to add some dolomite lime this year. It also could have been hotter so I think chicken manure and maybe some guanos will be used this year as well. The aeration and drainage were excellent though and the growth rate and yield was the best I have done so far but it could would been even better with a few tweaks.

In my opinion the four main parameters for soil when growing cannabis are good drainage, good aeration, high humus content, and an active soil biology. Now in order to get that last parameter, active soil biology, you will need to start learning about Aerated Compost Tea (ACT.) In order to really maximize the potential of your soil grow, ACT is a must in my opinion. Properly made ACT will take you soil garden to a whole new level, especially in terms of growth and yield.

 

[XxShibbyxX]

Cool thank you blaze. Lots of good info as well :)

 

[707seedbank]

earthworm castings, garden and bloom soil, rainbow mix. consistantly getting 2-3lbs/plant with this mix. good luck

 

[Mogrow]

xxshibyxx //// if you're not able to look at your plants everyday as in a gurella grow scenario, you better have something in the soil to retain as much water as you can. its all well and good if you're right on top of your plants but if you gotta leave them for weeks on end you don't want the soil all dryed up when you come back...

 

[XxShibbyxX]

Luckily ill be able to be with them every day. Id say the most id be away is a night once in a while but thats what my dogs and partner are for right lol

 

[XxShibbyxX]

.

 

[swampweed]

Thats some good info,we always used gypsum to add calcium,we use a 50/50 blend of dolomite and hydrated lime 2 raise ph as dolomite also contains magnesium.id like 2 add peanut shells,they also add nitrogen and r good drainage,crackerdust, pink deco,or zeolite,for drainage and minerals,pig poop for phosphorus,natural potash,chicken poop is high in nitrogen and ca,we dont so much brew tea,we used 2use 44 gallon drums with manure,fish,worm castings,n add rhizotonic and seasol.

 

[Blaze]

Some recent studies have found that gypsum adding Ca to the soil is a myth. Gypsum does indeed have agriculture applications other than adding Ca, but if you need Ca in your soil, do not use Gypsum. Though it does contain Ca it is not in a form that is available to the plant and it will only raise the available ppm of Ca by 1 or 2, which is pretty worthless.

 

[ncga]

I like to get a jump on the ACT so I add in some Myco. I only use an ag quality non Soluble version. Gets me off to a nice start.


Also Rice hulls are the best :)

If you can get a does of ACT into you pots before you plant that would work also.


A new product call Actinovate will be a new addition to my soil mix this year. Hope to avoid any pythium problems

nc

 

[Seamaiden]

Trichoderma, anyone? Seems that we may need it in our mixes, not so much for what it does directly for SFW/plants, but for its ability to mitigate diseases and pests.

Trichoderma harzianum, specifically.