GrowingGreen
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Ok got it i been waitin for you to come around, should i just follow directions with media pro how much per gallon to make concentrated mix
Ecompost
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oh also, mulching rock dust with BMP and wood chips is a winner, excellent way to top up tired beds, to quickly deliver long term full TE and often NPK. If you use Azomite, be sure to add a heap of Humics like EWC, Frass etc to help control the Al surplus. Check out a dust that has a lower Al count if you can, i know others here will name a good option stateside. I find just using Zeolites is often a safer option. I can ship these if you are struggling bro, ask Al. I think we would be limited by the weight but 5KG bags might work since the ratio to add is typically about 5%.
Zeolites like ours give a tonne of all you need and have a far lower Al rate than most mine garbage if you feel me :-)
Zeolites like ours give a tonne of all you need and have a far lower Al rate than most mine garbage if you feel me :-)
Ecompost
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I use a tea spoon so 5ml, one scoop full, add 3.5ml iNnitate as well, dont forget buddy, this is per gallon, you need to wet the entire media you add the dust too. So mix up based on those numbers and times by number of gallons you want.
Wet media to 50-60% keep it moist and warm if poss for min two weeks, then start to use it, be careful with Bio Veg on a short cook mate, use BBM and BBF, iNitiate, KAMINO and Floret to reduce any clashes with too many micros.
if you let it sit for 3 or more months, bio Veg wont clash so much :-) its pokey stuff on its own :-)
GrowingGreen
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I added bout 10lbs of ewc per pot, im gonna have to hold off on Zeo ! how much $ to ship the zeo?
GrowingGreen
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Ok there wont be no primary plant goin in yet just covercrop for now also im waiting on 50 lbs of rockdust
Ecompost
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not sure, i think we have some weight things, i will ask Alan he has the head for those details. I think we ship up to 1KG 5KG 10KG etc and so the prices would be as per the liquids on that volume if that makes sense. UI will ask him buddy, you can likely get them locally anyways :-) I will have a scout about and ask Al, if its less to get them from us, winner, :-)
Ecompost
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by the way this is lower Al than Azomite for sure thumbs up and to the plan
GrowingGreen
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Ill. check here in the states for it
GrowingGreen
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Last year i used 50 lbs too in same pots
Ecompost
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same Gaia one? or Azomite? Dont worry, you have good humic levels and fungal mass now, you will be OK with some Al buddy, mycos etc help screen it out :-)
Ecompost
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yeah some of the dudes here use it I think. Ours is ace man, loads of P, loads of everything bar lead, Al cad etc. Zeolites are just clays buddy, so really help drive up ce. They hold good air and water, plus microbes love them. They are the same the world over, some better due to lower heavy metal content
GrowingGreen
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Ok good thanks doggy!
Reeferkief
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Rock Dust & Remineralization
The broad elemental spectrum rock dusts contain a naturally occurring distribution of macro and micro nutrients delivered in mineral form, are generally insoluble crystaline structure and rely on weathering and an active soil biology consisting of beneficial bacteria and fungi to assimilate the mineral elements, making the nutrients available to the plants as needed. Highly micronized fractions of rock dust blends are immediately available to biologic systems and are highly effective in building amino acids and enzymes critical for biologic systems. There is little or no nitrogen in most rock dust materials although essential elements for fixing nitrogen in soils such as Molybdenum and Vanadium are present in many high quality rock dusts. The use of fixed carbon and humic sources are encouraged as companion materials to the broad elemental spectrum rock dusts to help build soil biology and regulate the uptake of essential nutrients in plants. Soil remineralization is a method of encouraging a natural, sustainable and self regulating growing environment which promotes long term and sustainable fertility.
I love rock dust.
The products heavy in toxic metals can be minimized by fungi, they tend to engulf and immobilize heavy metals very well. It's actually commonly used in remediation. @Ecompost What will humics and frass do to control excess Al? Is it just Al or would they help control other excess metals Eg. Pb, As?
If you’re coming into organic growing and perhaps done a bit of light reading, you’ve likely noticed the term remineralization in many of your sources. If you haven’t, remineralization is the utilization of rock dust in your soil to provide a slow release of minerals and trace elements. Using rock dust in your garden mimics the earths natural cycle of fertility, as soil and rock wear down and are leached into the water it accumulates in glaciers; during ice age these minerals are returned to earth. Over time volcanic activity pulls minerals and metals from their slumber deep in the earth, and volcanic ash helps spread them to the wind. But not all rock dust are equal, or optimal for any grow condition. Let’s take a look at their differences, and find which will work best for your garden. The major types of rock dust, or remineralization products, marketed to growers today are: Azomite, Glacial Rock Dust, Basalt, Gypsum, and Sea-90. That’s quite a selection, and some have uses that others do not, so rightfully some people may be confused about which to use, or which ones are okay to be used together.
Azomite®: The name itself stands for “A to Z of Minerals Including Trace Elements”. Azomite® is a combination of volcanic dust that filled a nearby seabed, creating hydrated sodium calcium aluminosilicate with the presence of other trace minerals. Azomite® contains a rather high amount of metal ions. In particular aluminum, some of which has already bound with silica to form aluminosilicate which will not be broken down by bacteria found in most soil; further any extra aluminum binds with silica you water-in, forming more non-soluble aluminosilicate. Containing the highest amount of lead and arsenic of any of the rock dust, which is a serious consideration for the average gardener not only in handling and safety, but when growing crops that could accumulate those compounds. It does however, contain the greatest amounts of rare elements and minerals, which is particularly useful when growing food crops. All in all, Azomite® is a suitable tool for mineralization if it’s what’s on hand locally, or if growing food, but perhaps not if growing cannabis.
Glacial Rock Dust: GRD (Glacial Rock Dust) as the name implies, is rock dust that is the result of weathering of rocks that has accrued in glacial formation; then as the glaciers recede they leave behind a glacial moraine. These glacial moraines are then mined, and the product is sold as GRD. GRD does not have quite as many rare elements as Azomite®, but it contains much lower aluminum, lead, and arsenic levels. It’s worth considering that Cannabis accumulates metals found in the soil, so if growing for smoke, GRD will contribute less impurities to the end product. The magnesium levels found in GRD is perfect for recycling soil, and contributing a slow but balanced level of magnesium.
Basalt: Basalt Rock Dust is made from igneous rock which means it hasn’t been processed or had any of nutrients leached, as consequence it has most of the rare elements found in Azomite®, while having incredibly low levels of the elements that are more toxic (lead, arsenic, etc.). Basalt has quite a high amount of silica, and weathers much quicker than any other rock dust, so it becomes available quicker. It’s also a good slow source of Phosphorus & Potassium, and will balance the pH of the soil. It provide some of the lowest sodium levels of any rock dust, and is found in great amounts, so generally speaking one of the cheapest of the rock dust. Glacial Rock Dust and Basalt together provide all the elements needed for mineralization of a medical garden, in my anecdotal experience.
Gypsum: Gypsum is Calcium Sulfate, so unlike the rest of the rock dust, it is not a composite of many different minerals and trace elements. However, it’s such a powerhouse it’s the one rock dust you absolutely shouldn’t omit. It helps with aeration in compacted soil, desalting the soil, provides an excellent source of calcium as well as sulfur, while balancing the soil pH. more. When trying to keep proper magnesium levels in your soil for recycling I’d recommend using gypsum for liming agent rather than dolomite, as not only will gypsum not add unneeded magnesium to the soil, it will provide more immediately available calcium than most other organic sources, such as oyster shell flour. Combining oyster shell flour and gypsum in your compost, top dressing, and soil will provide more than enough calcium to never use a product like cal-mag again. Topdressing gypsum as you begin bringing out the fade in your plant will provide a source of sulfur, increasing the terpene content before harvest.
Sea-90: Sea-90 is produced by solar dehydrating seawater trapped in retention ponds located in a secluded coastal area; in other words unrefined sea salt. Sea-90 is not a rock dust but since it’s used for remineralization I wanted to include it. Now, since Sea-90 is produced from seawater it contains a staggering amount of sodium and chloride, roughly 77% of each sea-90 crystal in fact. This massive amount of sodium and chlorine will definitely have an effect on microbiotic life, some of which can not handle the osmotic stress and toxicity. Sea-90 is water soluble though, and with the remaining 23% of each sea-90 crystal being minerals, metals, and elements it has the advantage of not having to wait for a rock dust to weather, but with the relatively toxic nature of chlorine and sodium, water solubility may not warrant it’s usage.
Now that you’re familiar with the differences between each product, you can start making your mineral mix confidently. For those of you curious about what I use personally, my mineral mix is:
2 part Oyster Shell Flour
2 part Gypsum
1 part Glacial Rock Dust
1 part Basalt
1 part Calcium Bentonite – I didn’t include more information about this, as it’s a clay and not used strictly for remineralization but instead for increasing the cation-ion exchange capacity of the soil.
This mineral mix is used at a rate of 3 cups per cuFt of soil
Saw you guys talking about rock dust thought I would join!
@Ecompost you are a champ hope you are doing well!
Saw you mentioned zeolite clay, Eco what's your take on it and in comparison to Ca bentonite. I feel both would be swell in a custom mix... They both bring a few different properties to the table. I assume Bentonite tends to be a little sweeter on the check book, but Zeolite has some unique properties I believe.
@GrowingGreen Looks like you are having a great croptober bud, glad to see! You are in Ca right? I know some bulk amendment suppliers out there if you want me to shoot you there info. It would probably save a dollar, instead of sourcing out of state. Get the wood chipper out for the stalks too make more mulch! Got to continue closing loops. Also any plans for the containers over the off-season?
Cheers, RK
The broad elemental spectrum rock dusts contain a naturally occurring distribution of macro and micro nutrients delivered in mineral form, are generally insoluble crystaline structure and rely on weathering and an active soil biology consisting of beneficial bacteria and fungi to assimilate the mineral elements, making the nutrients available to the plants as needed. Highly micronized fractions of rock dust blends are immediately available to biologic systems and are highly effective in building amino acids and enzymes critical for biologic systems. There is little or no nitrogen in most rock dust materials although essential elements for fixing nitrogen in soils such as Molybdenum and Vanadium are present in many high quality rock dusts. The use of fixed carbon and humic sources are encouraged as companion materials to the broad elemental spectrum rock dusts to help build soil biology and regulate the uptake of essential nutrients in plants. Soil remineralization is a method of encouraging a natural, sustainable and self regulating growing environment which promotes long term and sustainable fertility.
I love rock dust.
The products heavy in toxic metals can be minimized by fungi, they tend to engulf and immobilize heavy metals very well. It's actually commonly used in remediation. @Ecompost What will humics and frass do to control excess Al? Is it just Al or would they help control other excess metals Eg. Pb, As?
If you’re coming into organic growing and perhaps done a bit of light reading, you’ve likely noticed the term remineralization in many of your sources. If you haven’t, remineralization is the utilization of rock dust in your soil to provide a slow release of minerals and trace elements. Using rock dust in your garden mimics the earths natural cycle of fertility, as soil and rock wear down and are leached into the water it accumulates in glaciers; during ice age these minerals are returned to earth. Over time volcanic activity pulls minerals and metals from their slumber deep in the earth, and volcanic ash helps spread them to the wind. But not all rock dust are equal, or optimal for any grow condition. Let’s take a look at their differences, and find which will work best for your garden. The major types of rock dust, or remineralization products, marketed to growers today are: Azomite, Glacial Rock Dust, Basalt, Gypsum, and Sea-90. That’s quite a selection, and some have uses that others do not, so rightfully some people may be confused about which to use, or which ones are okay to be used together.
Azomite®: The name itself stands for “A to Z of Minerals Including Trace Elements”. Azomite® is a combination of volcanic dust that filled a nearby seabed, creating hydrated sodium calcium aluminosilicate with the presence of other trace minerals. Azomite® contains a rather high amount of metal ions. In particular aluminum, some of which has already bound with silica to form aluminosilicate which will not be broken down by bacteria found in most soil; further any extra aluminum binds with silica you water-in, forming more non-soluble aluminosilicate. Containing the highest amount of lead and arsenic of any of the rock dust, which is a serious consideration for the average gardener not only in handling and safety, but when growing crops that could accumulate those compounds. It does however, contain the greatest amounts of rare elements and minerals, which is particularly useful when growing food crops. All in all, Azomite® is a suitable tool for mineralization if it’s what’s on hand locally, or if growing food, but perhaps not if growing cannabis.
Glacial Rock Dust: GRD (Glacial Rock Dust) as the name implies, is rock dust that is the result of weathering of rocks that has accrued in glacial formation; then as the glaciers recede they leave behind a glacial moraine. These glacial moraines are then mined, and the product is sold as GRD. GRD does not have quite as many rare elements as Azomite®, but it contains much lower aluminum, lead, and arsenic levels. It’s worth considering that Cannabis accumulates metals found in the soil, so if growing for smoke, GRD will contribute less impurities to the end product. The magnesium levels found in GRD is perfect for recycling soil, and contributing a slow but balanced level of magnesium.
Basalt: Basalt Rock Dust is made from igneous rock which means it hasn’t been processed or had any of nutrients leached, as consequence it has most of the rare elements found in Azomite®, while having incredibly low levels of the elements that are more toxic (lead, arsenic, etc.). Basalt has quite a high amount of silica, and weathers much quicker than any other rock dust, so it becomes available quicker. It’s also a good slow source of Phosphorus & Potassium, and will balance the pH of the soil. It provide some of the lowest sodium levels of any rock dust, and is found in great amounts, so generally speaking one of the cheapest of the rock dust. Glacial Rock Dust and Basalt together provide all the elements needed for mineralization of a medical garden, in my anecdotal experience.
Gypsum: Gypsum is Calcium Sulfate, so unlike the rest of the rock dust, it is not a composite of many different minerals and trace elements. However, it’s such a powerhouse it’s the one rock dust you absolutely shouldn’t omit. It helps with aeration in compacted soil, desalting the soil, provides an excellent source of calcium as well as sulfur, while balancing the soil pH. more. When trying to keep proper magnesium levels in your soil for recycling I’d recommend using gypsum for liming agent rather than dolomite, as not only will gypsum not add unneeded magnesium to the soil, it will provide more immediately available calcium than most other organic sources, such as oyster shell flour. Combining oyster shell flour and gypsum in your compost, top dressing, and soil will provide more than enough calcium to never use a product like cal-mag again. Topdressing gypsum as you begin bringing out the fade in your plant will provide a source of sulfur, increasing the terpene content before harvest.
Sea-90: Sea-90 is produced by solar dehydrating seawater trapped in retention ponds located in a secluded coastal area; in other words unrefined sea salt. Sea-90 is not a rock dust but since it’s used for remineralization I wanted to include it. Now, since Sea-90 is produced from seawater it contains a staggering amount of sodium and chloride, roughly 77% of each sea-90 crystal in fact. This massive amount of sodium and chlorine will definitely have an effect on microbiotic life, some of which can not handle the osmotic stress and toxicity. Sea-90 is water soluble though, and with the remaining 23% of each sea-90 crystal being minerals, metals, and elements it has the advantage of not having to wait for a rock dust to weather, but with the relatively toxic nature of chlorine and sodium, water solubility may not warrant it’s usage.
Now that you’re familiar with the differences between each product, you can start making your mineral mix confidently. For those of you curious about what I use personally, my mineral mix is:
2 part Oyster Shell Flour
2 part Gypsum
1 part Glacial Rock Dust
1 part Basalt
1 part Calcium Bentonite – I didn’t include more information about this, as it’s a clay and not used strictly for remineralization but instead for increasing the cation-ion exchange capacity of the soil.
This mineral mix is used at a rate of 3 cups per cuFt of soil
Saw you guys talking about rock dust thought I would join!
@Ecompost you are a champ hope you are doing well!
Saw you mentioned zeolite clay, Eco what's your take on it and in comparison to Ca bentonite. I feel both would be swell in a custom mix... They both bring a few different properties to the table. I assume Bentonite tends to be a little sweeter on the check book, but Zeolite has some unique properties I believe.
@GrowingGreen Looks like you are having a great croptober bud, glad to see! You are in Ca right? I know some bulk amendment suppliers out there if you want me to shoot you there info. It would probably save a dollar, instead of sourcing out of state. Get the wood chipper out for the stalks too make more mulch! Got to continue closing loops. Also any plans for the containers over the off-season?
Cheers, RK
Last edited:
GrowingGreen
- 2,441
- 263
Thank you brother great info
Ecompost
- 5,134
- 313
Yo bro LTNS, good to hear from you.
I have been using a heavy ca base Zeolite here mate, so didnt feel the need to add extra since I also use Gyspum and have Glycinate, I am at about 80% Ca CEC now, I sense this is adequate and it keeps my soils really crumbly and my plants are ultra tasty since I increased the ratio after chatting here and elsewhere to a guy who has some excellent background in soil science and custom profiles.
I use a good gypsum since I can access this readily, where the bentonite I need to get shipped and its a far higher cost, probably due to its cosmetic market and the psuedo hippy moms boosting the price.
i dont see any fluctuations in my pH with gypsum, if anything it runs sweeter because I add it, so I just dont bother using anything else now. Gypsum and Zeolites, Bio Inoc Char deliver more then enough space to hang my elements, plus the zeolites give an abundance of P and again are ultra low in the heavy metal stakes. Its not that i dont use Rock Dust, I do, but I tend to mulch this every 3-5 years with fungal soaked wood chips and EWC. Again this is a GRD from the Baltic and I use a Volcanic dust which I mix with a leaf mold loam again local VRD. This we tested and its again low in the elements that should be low. (the leaf mold is Oak and from the farm)
I am looking in to using many mushrooms outside of any glomus/ cordycep etc. and we use lots in old sand bags as a biological barrier to the surrounding terror. I find those little closed cap button mushrooms are awesome at remediation. I am not sure why they sell them in stores tho. I wouldnt eat the little fuckers myself since they hoover up all kinds of shit.
I have chelates like Calcium Glycinate anyway, I can tinker to address any mis match in CEC ratios using a foliar as time progresses and plants needs change. All of my chelates are twin connection ligand and all bacterial as you might imagine, no shitty EDTA or single binding ligand.
We have hard water so adding a ca boost is vital to maintain the suitability long term. The Mg and Na defo has a negative impact otherwise and the crusty soil tops are proof that they are the stickier of the elements in Esti soils for sure.
Honestly since I raised my Ca CEC ratio, I havent felt the need to add additional bags of this and that. Bio Veg is such a good nutrient and so easy to use, i simply cant be bothered to do more with my substrate. It is working like a total dream and so having spent the last 6 months getting the CEC ratios sorted, I am here for a while LOL.
Do let me know your thoughts tho buddy, i am confident i can get bulk bentonite if I needed or thought it was worth the extra hassle :-)
On the Frass and Humics, this is more about providing a more suited environment before we plant, so using it to leach out pollutants ahead of planting up and providing the biological conditions for remediating microbes, such as those interacting with Frass. Frass is known to boost Actinomycetes which in turn helps us reclaim land from pollutants, VAM fungal counts are known to increase, if not Glomus as a whole and also to stimulate plants own defensive systems. Humics can help us fix soils, I am not sure adding a humic treatment in to a polluted soils system and adding a plant directly is a good idea tho no matter the fungal count. :-)
For me, if I can actively boost biology which in turn increases rates of metallothioneins to bind metals and reduce their toxicity and/or chemicals such as heat shock proteins that repair any damage done, then job is working :-)
best bet, try to reduce the metals in the first instance, not always possible because rock dust lacks a standard and miners and usually fucking ass hats that could not care less about living plants etc.
Bulldog420
Premium Member
Supporter
- 1,198
- 263
yea. slow nickel has me around 85% Ca saturation, with [email protected] testing through spectrum. Makes a world of difference. Tried to get the op to send samples to Spectrum, even offered to pay for it. Guess they will never know, anything really, about their soil.
GrowingGreen
- 2,441
- 263
Just finish choppin past couple days
RMH X QUERKLE
MORTICIA's ROSE
RMH X QUERKLE
MORTICIA's ROSE
GrowingGreen
- 2,441
- 263
oldskol4evr
- 12,306
- 438
sure am glad im not trimming that,lol
GrowingGreen
- 2,441
- 263
That trimmer im using comes in handy too ! I like the end results too!
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