Overwatering/ overcaring and fungi diseases

[dutchman]

We made some interesting observations that may add some ideas to fungi and disease or lack of nutrients discussions.

Friends of friends were growing in a fungi infested basement that was tested positive for different even toxic fungi strains, so nobody wanted to live there. They put black and white plastic at the walls and did not care too much for their plants growing in coco with conventional watering by hand. They were always underwatering and showed up only every second or third day. Sometimes the plants were thirsty for days and waiting desperately for water. The plants grew well and only some weak plants catched a fungus and died soon. The rest, 95%-99% stayed healthy and grew normal although Santa Maria was used, a very fungi sensitive strain. Air ventilation was very good and they used a very good root stimulator (Atami) so the plants could build up very strong roots right from the beginning. They used a cheap standard weed fertilizer, nothing special and did not check anything, just putting the fertilizer in tap water.....

Another friend was using the same strain but was growing in a big grow box that was 100% desinfected and cleaned. All his pots and stuff were desinfected. Air ventilation was very good. He used also coco and was caring for his plants like a mother for babies. He was always overwatering and overfeeding a bit, looking at his plants 3 times a day at least. He was using the most advanced and expensive fertilizers and nutrients and was testing for ph and shit all the time. About 30% of his plants catched some root fungus and later developed fungal and bacterial superinfections because of the weakness of the plants. Although he used all kinds of natural and toxic stuff to get them right. When I asked him what root stimulator he used he showed me some crap. I checked the roots and they were all underdeveloped and weak. He stopped watering for days until they were really thirsty and gave them only Atami root stimulator in a little bit of water. later he gave them fertilizer plus root stimulator but always kept underwatering a bit. Most of the plants could recover.

Our idea: Overwatering and bad root development in the first two weeks seem to be the greatest dangers for the plants health. If you do not get this right, problems will continue.

 

[Seamaiden]

Sounds just like what many new fishkeepers do--love them to death. I agree, it sets up a bad scenario to be watering/loving the plants too often, it'll stunt or kill them.

 

[cctt]

Finding the perfect balance with coco can be difficult - it's flexible enough to support your plants with way too much water (some say you "can't overwater coco") but can significantly dry before the EC spike that will cause damage. There's a perfect watering schedule in between that allows O2 in, controls EC levels, and refreshes the roots with new nutrients often enough to promote a hydro-like vigor. I notice new plants without established root systems take a while to grow into coco, and during that phase I like to let it dry out a bit more. Those first few weeks are the most frustrating part of coco for me - as I came from using media that sends plants into growth much sooner.

 

[dutchman]

some say you "can't overwater coco"

I notice new plants without established root systems take a while to grow into coco, and during that phase I like to let it dry out a bit more.

You can't overwater coco? That is not true. Coco is highly vulnerable for overwatering and pockets of rottening water down there if you do not have a perlite or air pocket. Coco is doing extremely well in large containers with an air segment down there where the water is filled in and not so good in smaller containers with on top watering and coco filled to the ground.

In the very beginning with coco it is important to water as little as possible and give a good root stimulator so the roots can get down there and build up healthy plants.
No "advanced" shit...don'tr trust their bacteria in Voodoo Juice, have seen strange reactions to that "Voodoo"..Have seen a whole plantations turning yellow after giving Voodoo and carbo Load for root development....
...Atami is really good, House and garden is good, Hesi is ok, BioBizz is ok, Canna is ok.......

 

[woodsmaneh]

Part 1 :)

Watering your plants properly​

It's not as easy as adding water
A lot of people take watering their plants for granted, and see it as one of the easiest parts of plant maintenance. In fact, providing strategic water to your plants is a very serious matter. Plants are largely made up of water — 50-99 percent depending on the type of plant and tissues. Healthy plant cells are full of water which makes it possible for them to have stiff, upright stems. The canopy is expanded to receive and transform the maximum amount of light. While a plant is converting this light energy into carbohydrates, water is an essential part of the manufacturing process. Water also transports nutrients from the medium into the roots as it transpires from the leaves and makes nutrient distribution throughout the plant possible. The amount of water available in your medium will determine the success of your plant cultivation. Properly irrigating your plants can lead to strong increases in root development, microbial activity and overall yield.


Over watering is more common than under watering
Although most people are scared of under-watering plants, most water related problems result from over-watering. The first thing that over-watering will do is displace air from soil pores in the medium. Even if your water is high in dissolved oxygen, microbes in your medium will quickly deplete this small reserve of oxygen. This can result in an anaerobic condition and subsequent problems, such as root rot resulted from anaerobic fermentation. Oxygen diffusion through water-filled pores is 10,000 times slower than through air-filled pores in the soil.

So, why is oxygen so important to your plant roots?
Similar to shoots, plant roots require oxygen for respiration. Although plant species vary in their tolerance of oxygen depletion, in most cases roots growing in an environment that lacks oxygen will fail to take up water and nutrients properly. This is why plants growing in wet soils can exhibit symptoms of nutrient deficiency and even wilt. The situation is usually worse when it is hot or the soil has high organic matter content.
One way of increasing oxygen in a soil or soilless media is to add a powdered calcium peroxide product at the time of transplant. The powder will breakdown over a period of six to seven weeks providing oxygen and calcium. Be careful to monitor pH, as calcium peroxide will increase the pH. Unlike hydrogen peroxide, calcium peroxide will not harm beneficial microbes. Another way of increasing oxygen in a soilless media is to increase the portion of coarse porous particles, such as perlite, to 30% of the total volume. It is also important to ensure that you don’t allow too much standing water to collect at the bottom of the container.

Letting your medium become too dry is a sure way to end up with a sick plant
Although most gardeners tend to over water, it is equally dangerous to go too far in the other direction and induce drought stress, which is caused by a shortage of water in the plant tissue. Long before you see your plants wilting, drought stress may be occurring. Plants defend themselves from lack of water by closing their stomata, accomplished by a feedback system: when turgor pressure in the plant drops, the guard cells become flaccid and the stomata close. Although this holds valuable moisture within the plant, it also slows the exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide. This reduction in gas exchange slows photosynthesis and plant growth is inhibited. You also risk overheating your plants if it is hot. Drought stress will show up as yellowing and/or dropping of older leaves.
There are two stages of wilting, temporary wilting and permanent wilting. These stages refer to the amount of available moisture in the soil. If you catch wilting early enough you may be able to save your plants: at a temporary wilting point, your plants will recover if watered. Chronic water stress will result in a plant with small, poorly coloured leaves and leaf wilting, leaving plants permanently droopy. If a plant wilts when it is blooming, the yield will be impaired dramatically. These plants will never perform to their potential… but they may serve as a valuable lesson to novice gardeners!
If you get to the permanent wilting point, the point where the soil moisture content is too low for plants to take up water, your plants will not recover.

 

[woodsmaneh]

Part 2 :cool:


Water movement: Several Forms of Attraction
When you think of how water moves through your medium, you may automatically think of the downward movement due to the gravity. Gravitational pull is very important, but there are other forces at play: matric and osmotic potential. When you apply water to the point of saturation all soil pores are filled with water. At this point, the dominant force is gravitational. In the coarse pores water is held loosely and can move easily in the direction of gravity. Once gravity has removed excess water from your medium, you have reached a point called "field capacity". At this point the other forces come into play.
Matric potential is a result of the attraction between water and soil particles. Capillary action is a good example of the presence of matrix potential. If you take a thin straw and put it in a glass of water, the water in the straw will be slightly higher than the surrounding water in the glass (the thinner the straw, the higher the water). Pores in soil or soilless mediums are much finer than the diameter of even the finest straw so these pores have a gravity defying ability to move water (up to several meters if the medium is compacted). In fact, some hydroponic systems use a wick system that supplies water by taking advantage of capillary action.
Osmotic potential relates to the attractive force between salts and water, and the fact that water will move from a less concentrated solution to a more concentrated one. This force also has the ability to move water against gravity through soil. It is also an important concept in terms of the way plants take up water; when the concentration of solutes within the plant is greater than that of the surrounding soil water, water will flow into the plant. However, when salt concentration reaches a certain level plants will not be able to draw water from the salty media. The topic of soil water flow is quite complex. Many resources are available online for those interested in a more detailed scientific explanation. Plants grow well when the soil moisture content is around 70% of the field capacity. At this point, the force that holds water is equivalent to a force of pulling 100-150cm water column. The macro-pores are filled with air and most micro-pores are filled with water. Roots can take water easily form the medium and respire normally.
Some water in your medium will not be available to your plants. Once your soil begins to dry out, it becomes more difficult for your plants to draw water from the media because of the incredible power of adhesion, the ability of water to "stick" to your media. The fine pores of medium also hold water strongly and the water is less available to plants. If the force that holds water reaches around15 bars (the force equivalent to pulling 150m water column), the plants will not be able to take water from the medium and will probably have reached the permanent wilting point. At this point there is still water in the medium but it is not available to plants. Even air-dried soil contains water; this water is referred to as hygroscopic water because the attraction to the particle is so strong that the only way to remove it from the soil is by drying it in an oven above 100°C. To check the moisture status you can take a handful of medium from the container. If you can feel moisture, but no water can be squeeze out, you have not over-watered the plants. If the medium is dry and you do not feel moisture, you need to water. A great way to water your plants is to apply water from the bottom of container (by setting the pot in water, or finding a similar solution) so that water can be drawn up by the medium by capillary action. In this way the macro-pores will not be blocked and air exchange between the medium and the ambient air can take place easily.

Check your water before watering
When watering your media, it is important to check the water temperature to ensure that there isn’t a large difference between the temperature of the water and the medium (aim for ±5°C). Otherwise thermal shock will make plants unhappy. For example, sudden drop in temperature can induce iron deficiency in species sensitive to iron deficiency. For indoor plants, use water that has been stored at room temperature for at least one day. For outdoor plants, water plants in evening or in the morning. Do not water plants with cold tap water in the middle of a hot summer day. Secondly, check water quality if the water is not rain water or fresh surface water from a known catchment. The electrical conductivity (EC, an indicator of soluble salt content) should not be over 1.5mS/cm. Ground water tends to have high EC. If EC is high (say over 0.5mS/cm), it is advisable to check the pH of the water. For most plant species it is acceptable if the pH is below 7.2. If water pH is high (say up to 8.3), this indicates that a considerable amount of bicarbonates are present. Iron deficiency-sensitive plants are likely to show iron deficiency symptom if water with a high pH is used for a long period of time. To resolve issues with high pH, you can neutralize the water with an acid (such as nitric or sulfuric acid). Be careful to select the right products to use. Some products designed to reduce pH are composed of phosphoric acid; if using this product, you have to adjust feeding program to account for the additional phosphorous. Vinegar can also be used. However high amount should be avoided since high level of organic acids can be toxic to roots (low level usually stimulates root growth, but this is beyond the scope of this article). Plant roots can require as much as three times more oxygen (by volume) than water, so understanding water movement and the forces that drive water movement are keys to the urban gardener's success. That said, the best way to increase long-term yields from your garden is to experiment with your unique system. Experiment with different percentage of mix ingredients to supercharge your medium and provide the best possible environment for root growth.
So the next time you tip your watering can or hear your pumps come on, make sure you are thinking about how important water management can be to your indoor (or outdoor) jungle.

~by Simon Hart, Senior Technical Advisor, Greenstar Plant Products

Resources:
Bouma, J. Brown, R.B. and P.S.C. Rao. Movement of Water: Basics of Soil-Water Relationships. A Fact Sheet of the Soil and Water Science Department, Florida Cooperative Extension Service University of Florida.

UBC SoilWeb. Soil water flow.

 

[dutchman]

So, why is oxygen so important to your plant roots?
Similar to shoots, plant roots require oxygen for respiration. Although plant species vary in their tolerance of oxygen depletion, in most cases roots growing in an environment that lacks oxygen will fail to take up water and nutrients properly. This is why plants growing in wet soils can exhibit symptoms of nutrient deficiency and even wilt. The situation is usually worse when it is hot or the soil has high organic matter content.
One way of increasing oxygen in a soil or soilless media is to add a powdered calcium peroxide product at the time of transplant. The powder will breakdown over a period of six to seven weeks providing oxygen and calcium. Be careful to monitor pH, as calcium peroxide will increase the pH. Unlike hydrogen peroxide, calcium peroxide will not harm beneficial microbes. Another way of increasing oxygen in a soilless media is to increase the portion of coarse porous particles, such as perlite, to 30% of the total volume. It is also important to ensure that you don’t allow too much standing water to collect at the bottom of the container..

This is the best and cheapest way to provide oxygen especially in coco. A common gardening container with an air pocket down there - the best for coco and for three to four plants. We have NEVER seen fungi probs or over/ underwatering. Pic of an Aqua Green Box

It doesnt work so here is the link to eby:


Why can I NOT upload or insert images?

Although most gardeners tend to over water, it is equally dangerous to go too far in the other direction and induce drought stress, which is caused by a shortage of water in the plant tissue. Long before you see your plants wilting, drought stress may be occurring. Plants defend themselves from lack of water by closing their stomata, accomplished by a feedback system: when turgor pressure in the plant drops, the guard cells become flaccid and the stomata close. Although this holds valuable moisture within the plant, it also slows the exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide. This reduction in gas exchange slows photosynthesis and plant growth is inhibited. You also risk overheating your plants if it is hot. Drought stress will show up as yellowing and/or dropping of older leaves.

Right, too much drought is not good too, but don't forget: cannabis is definetely used to underwatering for ages. Traditional landraces in Morocco, lebanon, Afghanistan etc. were always grown in very dry areas. Honestly: I have never seen any damage from a little bit of underwatering, it seems to strengthen the plants and they "recover" within an hour. Also resin production is increasing by underwatering.
"Hemp hates wet feet!" - thats what the european hemp farmers wrote down in the early middle ages....

 

[nuttso]

You can't overwater coco? That is not true. Coco is highly vulnerable for overwatering and pockets of rottening water down there if you do not have a perlite or air pocket. Coco is doing extremely well in large containers with an air segment down there where the water is filled in and not so good in smaller containers with on top watering and coco filled to the ground.

In the very beginning with coco it is important to water as little as possible and give a good root stimulator so the roots can get down there and build up healthy plants.
No "advanced" shit...don'tr trust their bacteria in Voodoo Juice, have seen strange reactions to that "Voodoo"..Have seen a whole plantations turning yellow after giving Voodoo and carbo Load for root development....
...Atami is really good, House and garden is good, Hesi is ok, BioBizz is ok, Canna is ok.......

cap's are the best. :D

 

[Seamaiden]

Why can I NOT upload or insert images?

Ah, site requirement that they not be linked from offsite...? (Except I just did it the other day... a jpeg.) Post count..? I don't know, I'll have to double-check.

 

[dutchman]

cap's are the best. :D

Ecellent grow you had there! Metrop is IMO one of the best fertilizers, Calgreen is magic but their root stimulator sucks.

But what is "cap's"?

 

[dutchman]

Ah, site requirement that they not be linked from offsite...? (Except I just did it the other day... a jpeg.) Post count..? I don't know, I'll have to double-check.

I still can't upload a 150 kb jpeg......

 

[nuttso]

Ecellent grow you had there! Metrop is IMO one of the best fertilizers, Calgreen is magic but their root stimulator sucks.

But what is "cap's"?

Read this stuff my friend and forget about vodoo juice piranhja or any other roots shit:



Metrop is fantastic fertilizer. He even got Yucca extract in there. BUT it misses sulphur. So get PH- by goldlabel...

Also checkout the aptus products. They have the best root booster and silicate product for now. Aptus roots + si + caps bennies = biggest roots my friend.

 

[Seamaiden]

I still can't upload a 150 kb jpeg......

Ok, gonna check and see if it's to do with post count or something like that, because we should be able to post up pix since logic got the new site up and running. 150kb not uploadable is stupid.

Ooooohhhh...! I wonder if you need 50 posts. The new interface/GUI doesn't give us post counts, but it looks like you still need 8 more posts to hit 50, and that's a magical number (but not as magical as 42, IMO) on many fora.

 

[dutchman]

Read this stuff my friend and forget about vodoo juice piranhja or any other roots shit:



Metrop is fantastic fertilizer. He even got Yucca extract in there. BUT it misses sulphur. So get PH- by goldlabel...

Also checkout the aptus products. They have the best root booster and silicate product for now. Aptus roots + si + caps bennies = biggest roots my friend.

Right, I doubt we will get OGBIOWAR products here in Europe, never seen it but Trichoderma and Bacillus makes sense....Aptus is available, will check it out. Have you tried Atami Bcuzz root stimulator? After reading the labels I believe the formula is different in the Americas than here....

So what are you saying: lowering the Ph because Metrop misses sulphur? haven't realized that....

But there is something weird about that Voodoo shit...sometimes there is a strange yellowing effect in the whole plant.

 

[nuttso]

You can get OGBIOWAR in eu. Just write cap a pm. You won't find anything better and cheaper than caps bennies. Use them as ACT with triacontanol (Alfalfa) and the shit will explode.

Use this here GoldLabel Ultra PH- when using Metrop. Btw Metrop can also be used as Foliar Fertilizer. I used it up to 3 ec without any burning on the plants.

 

[dutchman]

You can get OGBIOWAR in eu. .

No, not really.....

 

[nuttso]

No, not really.....

Cap ships to spain, netherland, uk....

 

[dutchman]

Cap ships to spain, netherland, uk....

That's true, but it is in no shop although I believe I#ve seen it a while ago in A'dam and Maastricht - the logo at least.