Patient MPB Buckets

bakershredhead · Apr 21, 2010

Hey Ridge don't worry about. I've had a few hiccups for sure on my first run with this system had to replace the plants because I fried them with light and then did it again with my new ones. There doing all right but that lumen shock is the real deal. Just wanted to give ya a heads up. It looks like you might be using Higromite in your buckets. I was using that for about a year and half in a krusty set up and it took me awhile to figure out those rocks hold tons of water. You can't top feed 24/7 unless maybe the lines are on the sides of the buckets. I kept getting root problems with it. So I finally went back to hydroton.

Ridge · May 4, 2010

Man, this is making me feel like a damn beginner. New problems constantly. Here's what the plants are showing, any help would be greatly appreciated. Our guess is overwatering, had the drippers on for 15 minutes for 3 times a day. The rocks do appear to hold more water then hydroton so that could be it. The plants are growing but just starting to show these issues posted below. Roots are not coming out of the buckets into the water yet, they've been in for 10 days now. They've doubled in size at least, but now showing issues.
Did a flush upon first signs of issues and that was yesterday, they look worse today.
Running the following nute sauce at 850 ppm, pH-5.9:
Sensi A & B
Roots Excelerator
Multizen
Liquid Sea Kelp (they were out of Algen)

Inuit · May 4, 2010

What nute regimine are you using and have you calculated that the intellidose is correctly dosing said nutrients?

I

Lost · May 4, 2010

Im going to guess lumen shock. Something is keeping the plant from producing something it needs for photosynthesis. Have you tried turing off 1/2 of the lights for a few days? What was your light start up procedure? Did you start them in their MPB's with all the lights going? Did you add a little N in the first week and 1/2 (foilar is best) of flip?

They look hella stressed and need a little less light :)

Ridge · May 4, 2010

Inuit said:
What nute regimine are you using and have you calculated that the intellidose is correctly dosing said nutrients?

I

We're not using the Intellidose for nutes yet, just pH and yes, we double check the reading with our handhelds weekly and its always right on.
We're using Advanced Sensi A and B, roots excelerator, multizen and liquid sea kelp. Works perfect in our other veg applications.

Ridge · May 4, 2010

Lost said:
Im going to guess lumen shock. Something is keeping the plant from producing something it needs for photosynthesis. Have you tried turing off 1/2 of the lights for a few days? What was your light start up procedure? Did you start them in their MPB's with all the lights going? Did you add a little N in the first week and 1/2 (foilar is best) of flip?

They look hella stressed and need a little less light :)

We have not tried turning them off, will do half of them tonight but we did ease into the lights, started with only 6-7 of the 12 and moved up to 10 as of right now. Think go back down to 6?

Sway · May 4, 2010

That's not lumen shock... That's definitely food related.. There's a number of things goin on, which seems like its lockout. Normally when lots of deficiencies show its a ph lockout issue.. If your mixing at 5.9 it will drift up from there. Well at 5.9 a number of elements are locked out already in hydro. I would get that ph down to 5.5-5.6 and see how they respond.

Sway · May 4, 2010

Like was said though...definitely turn some lights off...let them recoop then turn some back on... No need to waste all that light until they are back on track. Could have gotten shocked and helped everything else that's going on

Lost · May 4, 2010

I agree with Sway about the PH #'s. I was reading an article this week about how even ph#'s as low as 4 do not have huge affects on plant health and nute uptake. The objective of the article was pretty much to say better too low than over that 5.9 #.

Sway, the lumen shock somehow affects the plants ability to properly photosynthesise and it looks exactly like a cal-mag to a total liming to yellowing of the plant. Im not saying for sure its lumen shock but if the plant was health pre mpb, and it got like that an few days to a week, then my feeling would be to lean waaay towards the lumen shock.

Ridge · May 4, 2010

5.9 was a mistype, they're at 5.8 but I brought it down to 5.7 for now, we'll see how that does. Should I flush again if its a lock out? We did a floraliscious foliar spray hoping to help out a bit. Lights down to 6 burning now.

Ridge · May 4, 2010

The leaves feel real thick and rubbery if that helps a diagnosis.

mrdizzle · May 4, 2010

I bet it has something to do with the CO2 levels, Are you starting with a low ppm then drift it up?

Ridge · May 4, 2010

our CO2 levels are around 1500, should we lower it?

Ridge · May 4, 2010

Wrong, our CO2 is set at 1200, seems to stay around 1300 though. It was up high today because our power failure occurred and no circulation was happening, thus the 1500 misread. Should we lower it below 1200?
I've never ran CO2 in a sealed room before so that definitely could be the thing we're screwing up on.
I was theorizing that with so much CO2 and so many lights, the plants were using more nutrients then what we're used to seeing, thus creating deficiencies and lock outs?
As you guys can see, we're fucking frustrated so thanks so much for the help.

Dubwobble · May 5, 2010

You have a salt build up inside the plants caused by overfertilization (lock-out), resulting in burnt, crispy leaves showing a deficiency in N,K, calcium and magnesium +++

Most likely it is your nutrient concentration, plus the PH you are running.

With the Sensi A&B I would start with the lower 600 ppm dose. Check their charts, I believe the 850 ppm you are running is for advanced, aggressive growth.

Also, back off the times on the waterings a bit for a while. The plants will suffocate if kept too wet while recovering from the lock-out. Use a root stimiluator and some B-1 and not much else until they show good root growth. Then start with your fertilizer program.

The effected leaves won't get any better, they will eventually die off.
But the new growth will be all good and overgrow any older burnt-up stuff.

You gotta wait and be patient. Don't spray foliar feeds, you will only burn the leaves more.

jack the reaper · May 5, 2010

hey ridge!
i would consider your most likely culprits first, temp and water. i know i thought that my issue was more complicated than it was. at the time i thought it was some nute lock out but looking back it appears to be more temp related than anything else. the temp in the room spiked to 95 and the chiller wasnt able to keep temps under 70. my plants really suffered from this.

check my pix to compare.
hang in there bro!

mrdizzle · May 5, 2010

Ridge said:
Wrong, our CO2 is set at 1200, seems to stay around 1300 though. It was up high today because our power failure occurred and no circulation was happening, thus the 1500 misread. Should we lower it below 1200?
I've never ran CO2 in a sealed room before so that definitely could be the thing we're screwing up on.
I was theorizing that with so much CO2 and so many lights, the plants were using more nutrients then what we're used to seeing, thus creating deficiencies and lock outs?
As you guys can see, we're fucking frustrated so thanks so much for the help.

I would start them at 600ppm then bring it up once the plant adjusts to the buckets and the lights. keep the lights on but move them way up then lower them a lil every day.

Ridge · May 5, 2010

Dubwobble said:
You have a salt build up inside the plants caused by overfertilization (lock-out), resulting in burnt, crispy leaves showing a deficiency in N,K, calcium and magnesium +++

Most likely it is your nutrient concentration, plus the PH you are running.

With the Sensi A&B I would start with the lower 600 ppm dose. Check their charts, I believe the 850 ppm you are running is for advanced, aggressive growth.

Also, back off the times on the waterings a bit for a while. The plants will suffocate if kept too wet while recovering from the lock-out. Use a root stimiluator and some B-1 and not much else until they show good root growth. Then start with your fertilizer program.

The effected leaves won't get any better, they will eventually die off.
But the new growth will be all good and overgrow any older burnt-up stuff.

You gotta wait and be patient. Don't spray foliar feeds, you will only burn the leaves more.

Thanks for the diagnosis, I agree with the deficiencies, especially the K, Ca and Mag. Water is backed off, drip is turned completely off until they dry out a bit. Dropped the CO2 ppm to 900, reduced number of lights to 7 and did the mild foliar spray since we flushed yesterday. In a holding pattern until then.

Apache69 · May 5, 2010

Sending good energy your way, good luck!

mparker · May 5, 2010

Fruitridge

Helll Yea! Holler Ridge! Damn I love that Club. It almost brings happy tears to my eyes. kindof like cali connection gear and MPB buckets. Big Ups and Much Love to all the farmers out there. MPZ:icon_animal26:

Patient MPB Buckets

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Patient MPB Buckets

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