Paying my Dues.. Electrical knowledge

[dentonland]

papa with all due respect.... when i purchase a 1000 watt ballast thats what i ask for or thats the button i click to purchase on line,, not 1100. such minimal measurements in wattage rarely change anything.

cheers

 

[motta-tokka]

Plug that 1000 watt into a kill a watt and you should see more depending on the ballast. I dont see this going anywhere so far :) Pay up buddy

 

[oskiwosky]

hi detonland i have some ?'s about a 30a common trip breaker. it recently started tripping off during my lights on schedule. it resets fine but after a few hours it trips again. i replaced the breaker with an exact same 30a common trip breaker but now there is no power at all. after this i put the old breaker back on and the outlets hooked up to that circuit work fine. i have yet to see if they trip again as im not using them for lights.

so my question is what do i do next.

 

[dentonland]

No drama pleaze. I will say one thing, i've never physically read about 120v vs 240v power savings..Iits something thats been mentioned and taken for granted for many many years by many different co workers of many different trades.. hvac,elevator, pool installers. There are a few reasons why 240v is better. Its normally always a better way to go.
Any more questions :indifferent0023:

 

[dentonland]

Osk... you pulled your old breaker out and replaced it with the same but no power. Then put the old one back in and it worked but hasnt tripped since your now using it for something else... sounds like your load was heating up enough to trip that breaker.. they are made to do that on an overload or when the breaker gets weak it will trip... especially on surges of start up...
The old 30 amp breaker is holding your load now.. not sure what your using a 30 amp -breaker for now..maybe a/c.. all outlets should be on a 20 amp... but your most likely on a less load .. thats why its holding..
for the issue of the new one not working...its possible you didnt stab it in correctly on the panel bars or its defective.. which is unlikely since its new... normally its the driver not the car...
good luck

 

[dentonland]

Ok let me clarify something.... running 240v with a/c, h.d. pumps will save you money vs 120v. I am checking on the ballast comsuption of power to see if it matters. peace

 

[Bobby Smith]

Here's a quick and easy question for you (if you wouldn't mind):

The extension cord linked at the bottom is plugged into a 20 amp outlet; it is the only thing plugged into this dedicated outlet, and I had to get the extension cord because the outlet is outside of my growing area (I'm a moron and had the electrician put it there and also not give me 240V, but whatevs).

So, my question is - the cord says it can handle 15 amps, but it's 12 gauge (12/3), so what would be the maximum "short-load" amps (aka, not continuous) and continuous amps I could run on it?

Restated, I'm pretty sure it can only handle 15 amps continuous, but could it handle close to 20 (18ish) for a short period of time?

Trying to decide what circuits get what equipment, so this kind of matters to me.



EDIT: the more I think about it, I wonder if it can even handle 15 amps continuous - is that accurate, or would it only be safe to run 15*.8 = 12 amps continuous?

Thanks again.

 

[dentonland]

Bobby...what do you want to plug in to your cord? From the link to h depot Imo they would rate it continuous .... a breaker is recommended to be at 80%. Your wire ain't gona burn..your breaker will trip first if operating correctly. Put a 20 amp gfi for ur plug. You'll be golden. Volt drop occurs at 100'. Hope this helped.

 

[Papa]

papa with all due respect.... when i purchase a 1000 watt ballast thats what i ask for or thats the button i click to purchase on line,, not 1100. such minimal measurements in wattage rarely change anything.

cheers

with all due respect dentonland . . . yes, when you're talking to your electrical distributor over the counter or buying a replacement coil online you may refer to it as a "1,000 watt ballast." what i point out however, is that this "common language" is referring to a ballast for a 1,000 watt lamp . . . not to be confused with the "connected load" of that ballast.

this 7 or 8% difference may or may not matter in your (or my) typical situation. however it is oftentimes crucial for these folks who are attempting to run 10,000 or 15,000 watt growrooms on a limited panel and service.

one way we can help them better understand is by providing the most accurate information. yes, i may tell my assistant, "order another 1,000 watt ballast," but when i'm doing load calculations i will use the 1,070 or 1,080 watt load that is reality.

the more our farm membership understands this, and applies this knowledge during the design phase . . . the less questions we will have on the farm about breakers tripping and wires heating up four weeks into flower.









Papa

 

[Bobby Smith]

Bobby..what do you want to plug in to your cord

Well I guess that kind of depends on what it can handle.

I have two 5 amp pumps and a 2 amp pump that are going to be on the same timer so will be on the same circuit.

I have four 600 watt digitals that will be running on the same schedule but because I only have 120V power they're going to be on different circuits, either 2+2 or 3+1.

I have 720 watts for my veg tent on its own timer.

I have an 1100 watt AC and a 400 watt dehumidifier that need to be on the same circuit because they're both controlled by my atmospheric controller.

A few hundred watts of miscellaneous pumps, fans, timers, etc.

I have two "hard-wired", dedicated 20 amp (all circuits are 120) in my actual grow area.

Also have a 15 amp circuit that I need to install a receptacle on ("hard-wired", and in my actual grow area), so that will be available.

And lastly, I have whatever amps that extension cord lets me run.

So as you can see, it's kind of a mix and match hodgepodge of shit I need to figure out with my circuits.

 

[dentonland]

I agree papa but that's why we try to follow the 80% guidline. To leave a little room for surges and the variation of actual draw from equipment . .sorry bobby

 

[Bobby Smith]

I agree bobby but that's why we have that 80% guidline. To leave a little room for surges and the juggling the loads. Let's not drama this out...

I assume you meant "Papa"?

If it was directed at me, I wasn't trying to create drama - just curious as to what you would put on each of my available circuits.

 

[dentonland]

Ok Bobby now that the pressures on... haha.. i'm doing this from memory of reading your quote.... I'ld first put the a/c with the dehumid/humidifier on the 15 amper... just AROUND 1500 watts which is your safe point on it. Then if your dedicated two 20 amp circuits are not sharing the neutral.. which means that they are ran in 12-2 not 12-3 wire you could rephash the neutral to a 240v line which would allow you to run all your lights off a double (two pole).. breaker. Just land em in a contactor with a throw switch from a timeclock... if you want to do this i can explain it more later.. Then with your other 20 amper you can run your veg.. pumps..etc. The cord aint an issue.... you seem to have enough power in there.. didnt even use the one thats not in the grow room. You still have some amps to spare on your 240 volt line for another 2 lights i believe. ok.. let the games begin :anim_52:

 

[weedfarm]

weed farmer.. reread the top post. I wrote you can put another light on that 20 amp two pole.. that means 240v... two pole..
you could even squeeze it on a 120v
and its not any easier wiring 240v vs 120v... just a change of wire color.

AND WEEDFARM WHY THE HECK ARE YOU ASKING A QUESTION LIKE YOU DID WHEN YOU HAVE DESIGNED YOUR AWESOMEEEEEEE MULTII $$$$ PROJECTS.....

Dont bother replying just stay outta my thread..
:very_first_smiley:

You are right, you did say DP, my mistake


I asked because I wanted to be 100% sure of your point when you said it would save on "electrical costs" before I corrected you


This doesnt matter if its a small grow or a large 10K grow.

As others have stated a 1000w ballast could pull 1100 watts. That is 9.16 amps for one ballast or 18.3 amps for 2 ballasts. A 20A breaker at 80% is 16A. At 18.3 amps you are clearly over, and remember the 80% is code. And to be technical even at 1000 watts thats 8.3A or 16.6 amps for two ballasts, still over.

Surely you arent suggesting people ignore a code that is in place to protect people? Growers trying to stay under the radar and mostly growing illegally, surely do not need to be be pushing the limit and exceeding safety standards.


Your argument that a 1000W ballast should only pull 1000W is so weak. It shows your lack of electrical experience or knowledge.


You aren't telling people, hey you are a tad over, you may be OK, make your own decision You are just telling them its fine, when clearly its not



You started a thread, telling people you will give them advice. It is clear you do not have the knowledge or experience. You want to tell people they can piss on their plants or spray kool-aid on the leaves, fine (not that you have). But giving bad electrical advice could land someone in jail or dead. I will not stand by and allow that.

Ok let me clarify something.... running 240v with a/c, h.d. pumps will save you money vs 120v. I am checking on the ballast comsuption of power to see if it matters. peace

Let ME clarify. No it will not. Larger devices are run on 240 due to the power needed to run them. OHMS law buddy. A 240V device running 15Amps would require 30A on 120, larger wire, etc would be required.

Running 240 allows you to run more devices on a given wire size, less wire to install, less labor, etc.

And you need to check on ballast consumption?? 20 years experience and you cant

 

[dentonland]

Holy krap ok here we go.
FOR THE ELECTRICAL UNSKILLED.
THE HIGHER THE VOLTAGE THE LESS AMPS EQUALS $$$$$$$
THAT ENDS THAT

2ND.
I SAID ITS POSSIBLE TO SQUEEZE TWO 1000 WATT LAMPS ON A 20 AMP
120V CIRCUIT.
SURE ITS OVER THE RECOMMENDED 80%... YOUR ALSO "ASSUMING" ALL BALLASTS TAKE 1100 WATTS
BUT IT WOULD WORK... YOUR WIRING OR HOUSE WONT BURN DOWN ...YOUR BREAKER MIGHT HAVE 25% LESS LIFE.. BUT SOME PEOPLE ONLY HAVE THAT OPTION... I'LL TRY TO CLARIFY IT BETTER... THATS WHY I SAID SQUUUUUUUUEEEZE.. LIKE CHEEEESE

3RD.
YOU THINK EVERY BALLAST TAKES 1100 WATTS..
GO BACK TO SCHOOL BOY..
SOME ARE LESS.

WHY DONT YOU KEEP WATCHING AND JUST CORRECT ME...
IF YOU CAN.. I WOULDNT MIND THAT
ALL INPUT IS WELCOME :kiss i love these new smileys

 

[weedfarm]

Holy krap ok here we go.
FOR THE ELECTRICAL UNSKILLED.
THE HIGHER THE VOLTAGE THE LESS AMPS EQUALS $$$$$$$
THAT ENDS THAT

umm you are so wrong

Take out your electric bill. I suggest everyone do this. You are billed by KW hr. That is 1000 watts per hour. You are billed by the power used, regardless of voltage or current

For giggles lets say your 1000 ballast does run 1000 Watts.

1000=120*8.3
1000=240*4.16

your electric rate is lets say 20 cents a KWhr.

running your ballast for 10 hours is going to cost how much???



here is a hint 2$


PLEASE SHOW ME HOW CHANGING THE CURRENT/VOLTAGE WILL CHANGE THE BILL I WILL DELETE MY ACCOUNT IF YOU PROVE ME WRONG

Running at 240 has some very very very small advantages due to voltage drop, etc. If running 100 lights over a year, you may see a savings of a couple dollars. I am talking real world average grower here



Just about every magnetic ballast pulls more than its bulb rating, that is the normal. I do believe digitals are more efficient

Did you ever get your meter out and measure the current? BTW you will need a clamp meter, and place it over one leg, hot or neutral, but not both. That will give you your current. let me know what your says. Hell I'll post a pic of my reading at 240



Sure exceed the 80% rating. The NEC is not important. its there just to be a PITA People remember when you overload the circuit this way, the breaker is tripping because it is overheating. This is a safety issue. How many times do you want to come home and find the breaker tripped. your plants stressed and hermed on ya



a 1000W bulb can create at least $20K worth of product annually. Is $100 alot to spend to make sure the grow is safe and reliable



FWIW I am not trying to be a jerk. I just want people to have sound electrical advise. Alot of your posts seem to be right on.

Please do some more research on the power bill and meter your ballasts. I think you will change your mind

 

[dentonland]

Lets end this quick and i'll put it in big words


FIRST.. YES WE'RE BILLED BY KILO WATT HR.. IN THE U.S.A,
BUTTTTTTTTTT
240V RUNS AT A LESSER AMP WHICH MEANS IT PRODUCES LESS KILO WATTS!!!!!! HERE LOOK AT THISSS ....... KW IS $$$$ KW IS $$$$
240V MORE.. 120V LESS..

 

[dentonland]

SECONDLY
you responded that "your billed by voltage or current"
GUESS WHAT VOLTAGE IS CURRENT
but you wouldnt know that eh.....

 

[dentonland]

THIRD
take a load meter and put in on the white or black you instructed...
where at the panel
well.....
you wont get a reading testing the white wire... unhook it at the panel and
you'll fry everything..why dont you try that and prove me wrong..
and if you test your neutral at the fixture there's load no on it.
YOU NEED TO CHECK YOURSELF BEFORE YOU WRECK YOURSELF

 

[purpleberry]

Ok i only know enough about power to kill my self, But ill ring in anyway. I cant believe someone who is offering advice about power would think that running 240v instead of 120v would save power
There is a reason there is less amps, there is a reason if exactly half, because 240 is running half the power threw one wire and the other half threw another. 120 runs it all threw 1 wire. 2 hots vrs 1 hot. Either way they really pull the same amps and watts. And you wont save any power.