Perfect pH?

desertsquirrel · Aug 19, 2011

I have often heard of this mythical "perfect" or even "stable" pH. However this approach has failed me both practically as well as theoretically.

Practically i documented running a static pH at the start of the thread "UC actual available nutrient profiles" and it was a nightmare. Link:

Deficiencies right and left as well as constant attention to and lowering of the pH to hold it stable. In general i see a correlation between pH rise and ec reduction to a tune of .5-.6 pH rise/.25-.3 reduction in EC over each 24 hour period.

Which brings me to theory. Initially i rely upon the pH rise to do 2 things. First the rise tells me that the plants are both removing acids (nutes) as well expelling hydroxyls, both of which raise pH. Also, working with the natural swing, allows the solution to cycle through the entire spectrum of essential elements optimal uptake point; as illustrated in the chart below:

So, my question is, if it exists, what does "perfect pH" mean to you?

desertsquirrel · Aug 19, 2011

BTW i swing between 5.4-6.3 in veg and 5.1-6.1 in flower.

If you vote swing please post the swing numbers and your media.

grnmountainboy · Aug 19, 2011

i also do this in my aeroponic system! all my friends thought i was crazy! glad to hear im not the only one. i also this to help determine the overall health of the plant. when the ph no longer "swings naturally" like you explained above, i know that the plants are getting sick. i spent a lot of time trying to keep the ph perfectly stable without success and a lot of the time it made my plants sick. it wasn't until i learned this "swinging" trick that i started using my aero system with 100 percent success

Texas Kid · Aug 19, 2011

I swing but not that much and it is usually a slow decline from 6.3-6.5 to 5.8 at the low end.

I like 6.2-6.3 for rooting clones and seedlings, 6.3-6.0 for veg into early flower, and 6.0-5.8 till the end..

I used to jack the ph to 8 or so for a few days to make the big fans fall off real easy almost by shakin the tree boss...and the harvest and final trim

Tex

desertsquirrel · Aug 19, 2011

Tex are you saying your pH swings down? whats your EC?

FrostyTheGroMan · Aug 19, 2011

desertsquirrel said:
Tex are you saying your pH swings down? whats your EC?

I started noticing that my ph is shifting down instead of up. It used to swing up but I've started noticing that it is goin down now....

What could b the reason for this?? I read somewhere here that the PPM's might be too high but it's right around 550-560. It does increase as the water level drops though.... Is that because the plants aren't taking in nutes properly?? And could that be the reason my ph is swinging down??

Texas Kid · Aug 19, 2011

I have to actually move mine, the ph sits pretty much where i set it for a week or so...

My ec ride from .8 to 1.3-1.6 max in flower

Tex

desertsquirrel · Aug 19, 2011

2 main reasons i know of for pH down swings are :

Over fertilization

and Root rot

1) Watch your ec to see how it correlates with your swing.

2) Visually inspect your rot zones.

3) Review plant history.

4)Compare whats happening to other plants or even other grows for diversion.

That would be how i would start my diagnosis.

Either way i would cut solution EC by 25% and add a root rot prevention product you have had success with.

desertsquirrel · Aug 19, 2011

Texas Kid said:
I have to actually move mine, the ph sits pretty much where i set it for a week or so...

My ec ride from .8 to 1.3-1.6 max in flower

Tex

What line are you using tex? and water source?

.8-1.8 is basically what I'm doing as well and if I'm not downing every 2-3 days its in the 7's.

Texas Kid · Aug 19, 2011

House and Garden right now and I have a real hard time makin it move from where i set it...I ph 30 minutes after any nute adders. I don't ph between the a and b base adders but I do wait 30 minutes or so btween addin them to the control res

My water source is well water that comes out at about 2600ppm and then I go thru a DE scrubber, saline scrubber, charger filter, Blue Tall boy filter, and then a Merlin r/o filter to get it down to under 100ppm in my storage tanks.

Bout to run Ionic so we shall see how that acts..

Tex

desertsquirrel · Aug 19, 2011

H&G is what I'm using as well. i bet its a water issue. Could you bring in enough hospital grade for 1 change out?

Ionic is a great line but i think it will be more expensive then the H&G. Not enough to effect margins or anything.

glad to talk to you tex i like your work a lot.

stickyfing3rs · Aug 20, 2011

I use h&g and I usually just ph my nutes with my a&b once my ph hits 6.2 or 6.3 then usually ppm is at 200 to 250 then add my a&b till im at 5.5-5.6 usually 300 to 350 ppm. Sounds pretty low compared to what most of you run but works great for me

johnursery · Aug 20, 2011

i swing 5.5-5.8 in veg and 5.7-6.0 in flowering aproximately though, coco and hydroton right now

mrbong73 · Aug 20, 2011

It's my understanding that as a plant gives up an H+ for a nutrient cation the concentration of H+ ions increases thus lowering the pH.
And as the plant exchanges an H+ for an anion the concentration goes down thus increasing pH.

I could be wrong.

cannabisabalism · Aug 23, 2011

I have been getting swings from 5.8-4.2, after 4 days, I have started adding ph up to bring it higher. Is his recommended?

MIway · Aug 23, 2011

DS~ couldn't enter values in the swing, sorry bro... but I like anywhere in the 5.7~6.2 range. I consider 5.5 my low & 6.5 my high 'warning' marks.

Canna~ anything under 5.4 & you'll start to have issues, from my experiences.

efnscreenames · Aug 23, 2011

plants absorb nutrients and water at different rates making your PH vary all the time. Hydro more so than Soil. I grow in Sphagnum and use a soil ph tester and fertilizer meter. Also I use a ph checker everytime I mix batch of nutrient solution or even plain water I Ph balance it to 6.3 .. Hydro is ideal at 5.8. If you use aPh meter for your nutrient solution be sure to pick up some calibration solution too. If not your Ph will get outta whack and have you kicking your dog.. and no dog deserves to be kicked unless he's eating your buds!

desertsquirrel · Aug 23, 2011

efnscreenames said:
plants absorb nutrients and water at different rates making your PH vary all the time. Hydro more so than Soil. I grow in Sphagnum and use a soil ph tester and fertilizer meter. Also I use a ph checker everytime I mix batch of nutrient solution or even plain water I Ph balance it to 6.3 .. Hydro is ideal at 5.8. If you use aPh meter for your nutrient solution be sure to pick up some calibration solution too. If not your Ph will get outta whack and have you kicking your dog.. and no dog deserves to be kicked unless he's eating your buds!

lots of people say 5.8 but both based on the chart, and on exp, imo 5.8 is the worst ph you can run... look at the chart...

desertsquirrel · Aug 23, 2011

mrbong73 said:
It's my understanding that as a plant gives up an H+ for a nutrient cation the concentration of H+ ions increases thus lowering the pH.
And as the plant exchanges an H+ for an anion the concentration goes down thus increasing pH.

I could be wrong.

Good post, I'm not ignoring you, just making a new thread for that info, it will be a few days.

desertsquirrel · Aug 23, 2011

cannabisabalism said:
I have been getting swings from 5.8-4.2, after 4 days, I have started adding ph up to bring it higher. Is his recommended?

definitely not...

Down swings mean either A)root rot, or b)solution EC is too high.

Perfect pH?

Perfect pH?

What is the perfect pH?

5.2

5.5

5.8

6.0

6.3

swing

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Perfect pH?

Perfect pH?

What is the perfect pH?

5.2

5.5

5.8

6.0

6.3

swing

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Texas Kid

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