PH A Basic explanation

Aqua Man · Jan 29, 2021

Madmax said:
I tossed it out ..is there anything on the subject you have read aqua that iron and cal precipiate out of solution when they are added after si ..see how i dont listen lol even when your right..lol..

Just got off work... not sure how ya mixed em but will check back when I wake up.

edray2052 · Jan 29, 2021

So is the general takeaway here that if you're using a pH adjusted soil (I'm in ocean forest), and you're not using silica and you're water isn't too far from neutral (my tap runs around 7.1-7.2), then you're better off not using pH up or down? My first FFOF grow I didn't know anything about pH -- my second grow I've been pHing every watering/feed and my plants don't look nearly as good as when I wasn't worrying about it. Could be an infinite number of reasons for that I guess, but after reading this thread I'm inclined to box up my pH Up/Down.

XtreemLee · Jan 30, 2021

To confirm my well water comes out at ph of 8 and an ec of .4. I’m using bubble buckets I flushed the media and plant root with sledgehammer/water mix. I then put the plants in plain water ph balanced to 6.0, and verified ec at .37 with no nutrients. I just want to watch my ph for a day or two before adding any nutes.
I have some cal/mag (fox farm) coming, I expect that to help moderate my ph. I definitely have been adding to much nutrients. Since my roots are in water what should my vegetative ec be? I’ve seen some that say never over 1.2, but am not sure.

HarryHood · Jan 30, 2021

edray2052 said:
So is the general takeaway here that if you're using a pH adjusted soil (I'm in ocean forest), and you're not using silica and you're water isn't too far from neutral (my tap runs around 7.1-7.2), then you're better off not using pH up or down? My first FFOF grow I didn't know anything about pH -- my second grow I've been pHing every watering/feed and my plants don't look nearly as good as when I wasn't worrying about it. Could be an infinite number of reasons for that I guess, but after reading this thread I'm inclined to box up my pH Up/Down.

yeah, i think that's the case, but i'm a newb so take that fwiw?

Aqua Man · Jan 30, 2021

edray2052 said:
So is the general takeaway here that if you're using a pH adjusted soil (I'm in ocean forest), and you're not using silica and you're water isn't too far from neutral (my tap runs around 7.1-7.2), then you're better off not using pH up or down? My first FFOF grow I didn't know anything about pH -- my second grow I've been pHing every watering/feed and my plants don't look nearly as good as when I wasn't worrying about it. Could be an infinite number of reasons for that I guess, but after reading this thread I'm inclined to box up my pH Up/Down.

Imo yes.

Aqua Man · Jan 30, 2021

XtreemLee said:
To confirm my well water comes out at ph of 8 and an ec of .4. I’m using bubble buckets I flushed the media and plant root with sledgehammer/water mix. I then put the plants in plain water ph balanced to 6.0, and verified ec at .37 with no nutrients. I just want to watch my ph for a day or two before adding any nutes.
I have some cal/mag (fox farm) coming, I expect that to help moderate my ph. I definitely have been adding to much nutrients. Since my roots are in water what should my vegetative ec be? I’ve seen some that say never over 1.2, but am not sure.

Every grow will be different... read the plants is the best way but typically 1.2-1.4 mid to late veg. May need a water only day in there but hard to say

Madmax · Jan 30, 2021

This is what i seen a while back and the reason why im doing it like i am bar using cal mag where he mentions as i read somewhere si and cal mag dont go well together like that.i use cal mag at end when i do ..but i wont use them in same feed.

KingHale · Feb 2, 2021

Over the past week I’ve been running a test to figure out if there’s a reason to pH balance the water/nutrients i feed my plants.

I have 39 clones and a soil pH meter

half of the clones got pH balanced water and nutrients, the other half just got water and nutrients. Here are my findings:

The clones who received pH balanced water maintained a soil pH of right around 6.0
The clones who did not receive pH balanced water all had soils whose measurements maxed the needle of my pH meter, so their soil was at least 8.0.

All Of the plants look healthy. I don’t see any distinguishable difference between them.

As much as I’d love to skip the step of having to pH balance everything, I think for now I’m going to continue doing it. I just thought I’d share my findings.

Aqua Man · Feb 2, 2021

KingHale said:
Over the past week I’ve been running a test to figure out if there’s a reason to pH balance the water/nutrients i feed my plants.

I have 39 clones and a soil pH meter

half of the clones got pH balanced water and nutrients, the other half just got water and nutrients. Here are my findings:

The clones who received pH balanced water maintained a soil pH of right around 6.0
The clones who did not receive pH balanced water all had soils whose measurements maxed the needle of my pH meter, so their soil was at least 8.0.

All Of the plants look healthy. I don’t see any distinguishable difference between them.

As much as I’d love to skip the step of having to pH balance everything, I think for now I’m going to continue doing it. I just thought I’d share my findings.

Testing right after watering?

Aqua Man · Feb 2, 2021

KingHale said:
Over the past week I’ve been running a test to figure out if there’s a reason to pH balance the water/nutrients i feed my plants.

I have 39 clones and a soil pH meter

half of the clones got pH balanced water and nutrients, the other half just got water and nutrients. Here are my findings:

The clones who received pH balanced water maintained a soil pH of right around 6.0
The clones who did not receive pH balanced water all had soils whose measurements maxed the needle of my pH meter, so their soil was at least 8.0.

All Of the plants look healthy. I don’t see any distinguishable difference between them.

As much as I’d love to skip the step of having to pH balance everything, I think for now I’m going to continue doing it. I just thought I’d share my findings.

Kinda curious what water source and nutrients your using that would give you a ph of 8 after mixing.

Glassdub · Feb 2, 2021

My run offs have been acid which I attribute to aciding down tap water to be "in range" but putting the root zone out of range, I won't make this mistake again unless the root zone goes high out of range.

HarryHood · Feb 2, 2021

KingHale said:
Over the past week I’ve been running a test to figure out if there’s a reason to pH balance the water/nutrients i feed my plants.

I have 39 clones and a soil pH meter

half of the clones got pH balanced water and nutrients, the other half just got water and nutrients. Here are my findings:

The clones who received pH balanced water maintained a soil pH of right around 6.0
The clones who did not receive pH balanced water all had soils whose measurements maxed the needle of my pH meter, so their soil was at least 8.0.

All Of the plants look healthy. I don’t see any distinguishable difference between them.

As much as I’d love to skip the step of having to pH balance everything, I think for now I’m going to continue doing it. I just thought I’d share my findings.

wow! that's interesting

TheForechecker · Mar 11, 2021

I have had a lot of PH lockout since I started in September. I have a list of about 10 DIFFERENT things I've done to abuse the plants, so its not even worth going there (soil, light, air, water? where do you want to start?). I grew some pretty crappy weed, but now I know what these plants can take and its quite impressive.

The water here is 7.8ph and 800ish ppm, its hard water with a lot of cal/mag.

I have started to use RO water (20ppm) and then just put about 1/3 or 1/4 of tap water (which run through an anti-scale whole house filter as well), enough to get the PPM to 75-150ppm.

I use living soil and top dress the glandular amendments. In the water, in the past, I've added epson salt, cal/mag, molasses, silica, mycos and phdown. Now I'm just recovering from nute lockout on my current grows that's in week 6 of flowering (from adding all that crap AND nutes AFTER lockout lmao). I have 10 plants coming out of veg stage soon...going treat these gals like queens! I promise ill try.

My question is because I am adding in this 100ppm of cal/mag from tap water, should I still add the 60ppm of general hydroponics CAL/mag with every watering? Its better to add the tap water because of the buffering qualities, eh? Also, I'm afraid I'm killing bennies that cal/mag liquid nute, but I have it and ill use it if I need it.

Aqua Man · Mar 11, 2021

TheForechecker said:
I have had a lot of PH lockout since I started in September. I have a list of about 10 DIFFERENT things I've done to abuse the plants, so its not even worth going there (soil, light, air, water? where do you want to start?). I grew some pretty crappy weed, but now I know what these plants can take and its quite impressive.

The water here is 7.8ph and 800ish ppm, its hard water with a lot of cal/mag.

I have started to use RO water (20ppm) and then just put about 1/3 or 1/4 of tap water (which run through an anti-scale whole house filter as well), enough to get the PPM to 75-150ppm.

I use living soil and top dress the glandular amendments. In the water, in the past, I've added epson salt, cal/mag, molasses, silica, mycos and phdown. Now I'm just recovering from nute lockout on my current grows that's in week 6 of flowering (from adding all that crap AND nutes AFTER lockout lmao). I have 10 plants coming out of veg stage soon...going treat these gals like queens! I promise ill try.

My question is because I am adding in this 100ppm of cal/mag from tap water, should I still add the 60ppm of general hydroponics CAL/mag with every watering? Its better to add the tap water because of the buffering qualities, eh? Also, I'm afraid I'm killing bennies that cal/mag liquid nute, but I have it and ill use it if I need it.

Ummm quick question first... is that whole house unit by chance a water softener? If it is and it sounds like it is then thats probably the root of all your problems

Glassdub · Mar 11, 2021

TheForechecker said:
My question is because I am adding in this 100ppm of cal/mag from tap water, should I still add the 60ppm of general hydroponics CAL/mag with every watering? Its better to add the tap water because of the buffering qualities, eh? Also, I'm afraid I'm killing bennies that cal/mag liquid nute, but I have it and ill use it if I need it.

This is a question I've been trying to get an answer to, being the high level of city lime in my tap water, not this high my tap ppms are under 100 but pH is usually 10.5, would I really need to supplement Cal, is the tap lime plant available?

TheForechecker · Mar 11, 2021

Aqua Man said:
Ummm quick question first... is that whole house unit by chance a water softener? If it is and it sounds like it is then thats probably the root of all your problems

So my system: town water to> water softener > express water - whole house anti-scale filtration system> express water - reverse osmosis> then I normally bubble it overnight before PHing

Aqua Man · Mar 11, 2021

TheForechecker said:
So my system: town water to> water softener > express water - whole house anti-scale filtration system> express water - reverse osmosis> then I normally bubble it overnight before PHing

What's the ppm of the RO water?

I would not add any water that's been through through water softener back into the mix.

It exchanges minerals like calcium, magnesium etc for sodium.. in small does its a micro nutrient but it quickly becomes toxic at lower levels... we want to keep sodium well below 25ppm with all contributions including ferts, additives etc.

So IMO you can assume any ppm post water softener is sodium.

Aqua Man · Mar 11, 2021

Glassdub said:
This is a question I've been trying to get an answer to, being the high level of city lime in my tap water, not this high my tap ppms are under 100 but pH is usually 10.5, would I really need to supplement Cal, is the tap lime plant available?

So you may and may not depending on the makeup... like I say in my original post PH is not really something you can use on its own.

You can look up your water report or post it here and I can give you the low down on it.

But to answer typically the ratio of calcium to Mg is not adequate in tap water... most times you will find adequate calcium but very much lacking magnesium and as we know the nutrient ratios are extremely important to maintain. So in this case instead of adding cal mag you only need to add Mg to bring the ratio back. Ideally about 100ppm Cal and 50ppm of Mg. In most cases if you ppm from tap is between 100-200ppm simply adding 1 gram per gal of magnesium sulfate (epsom salt) will bring the ratios back into a favorable place.

TheForechecker · Mar 11, 2021

Aqua Man said:
What's the ppm of the RO water?

I would not add any water that's been through through water softener back into the mix.

It exchanges minerals like calcium, magnesium etc for sodium.. in small does its a micro nutrient but it quickly becomes toxic at lower levels... we want to keep sodium well below 25ppm with all contributions including ferts, additives etc.

So IMO you can assume any ppm post water softener is sodium.

Its about 20ppm coming out of RO (That 20ppm is from the alkaline stage (The 5th-9th stages are our Alkaline Filter adding 5 stages of mineralization, antioxidants, and oxygen to your water. )
800ppm when tested after running through entire system
and oddly enough its 800ppm when tested directly from town (outdoor faucet). Its very easy for me to tap into a direct town water line as well if some of that water would be beneficial.

So, what do you think would be my safest path forward to experiment with in my new living soil run? Straight RO water, then add cal/mag or epson salt as plant show deficiency? I think you are correct and it makes total sense about salt being the primary TDS in my (non-RO) water, not cal/mag.

KingHale · Mar 11, 2021

Aqua Man said:
Testing right after watering?

I’m not sure why I’m just now seeing this, but I test my water after I add nutrients. I don’t have an accurate means of measuring what comes out, as I tend to add just enough water to create a drip but never really accumulates into a puddle.
My tester stays in the soil permanently. I check it every few hours. In all honesty, I’m not completely reliant on the meters readings, but they do encourage me. I have fingers that sense moisture and a nose for excessive moisture. I know that my active and passive air flow is working. Primarily, the plant looks good and I try to just let it do it’s thing.
I will say this: my first two grows were in 100% Fox farm happy frog with no mix, no perlite, no crushed dolomitic limestone, nothing. That may have been why the meter read what it did.

On my most recent attempt, I am copy-catting the idea of mixing 40% happy frog, 40% ocean forest and 20% perlite. I’m also going full blown Fox farm nutrient schedule.
I always pH check my soil prior to watering. Basically, I flip the switch to pH, wiggle the meter and begin getting water ready. By the time I’ve got my water ready, I know the relative oH of the soil. Usually high, just around 7. I collect rainwater, and I add the Fox farms full nutrient schedule as recommended to the T, then pH balanced the water using no more than 2 drops of pH down and no more than 25 drops of pH up after that to a pH balance which always falls right around 5.9 - 6.3. I use a BlueLabs pH meter that i calibrate monthly.
I then put that water into my sprayer and administer the water. When I’m done, ill
Switch the meter back to moisture, wiggle it, and check in 19 minutes. Its usually above 6, which is good. It will eventually create a drip, but won’t create a puddle if I’ve done it correctly. Then I switch the meter back to pH, and check it later. I’ll admit, I’m less diligent in checking the pH after 10 minutes, but even after an hour, the meter is on a solid 6, so whatever I’m doing seems to working. I’m always trying to improve.

PH A Basic explanation

PH A Basic explanation

Aqua Man

edray2052

XtreemLee

HarryHood

Aqua Man

Aqua Man

Madmax

KingHale

Aqua Man

Aqua Man

Glassdub

HarryHood

TheForechecker

Aqua Man

Glassdub

TheForechecker

Aqua Man

Aqua Man

TheForechecker

KingHale

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