PH. Crashing and can't stop it..

[Ponky]

Can someone please explain what this means...........Never add a base to an acid

Base is a PH higher than 7.0. Acid is PH below 7.0

Don't pour acid into a base is chemistry lab safety protocol.

 

[Waterlogged]

Is the RO at zero PPM before the tap goes in? If so, you are probably alright there.
It's probably stuff living in the tank. You said you can see it.
What pH down are you using? The bio one's can ruin a perfectly good grow show.

Advanced ph up and down concentrated, yes its 0 ppm then I put tap in to 75 and I cleaned the tank thoroughly ahead of time.

 

[Waterlogged]

Base is a PH higher than 7.0. Acid is PH below 7.0

Don't pour acid into a base is chemistry lab safety protocol.

I'm sorry I'm a rookie I still don't know what ya mean, my r/o is like 5.7 and the tap is like 7 I put r/o in first then tap them cal mag and rest of nutrients, by then ph is around 6.5 and the I use ph down to 5.8 it will go up a few points next 2 day then it just plummets.

 

[Waterlogged]

Base is a PH higher than 7.0. Acid is PH below 7.0

Don't pour acid into a base is chemistry lab safety protocol.

I'm sorry I'm a rookie I still don't know what ya mean, my r/o is like 5.7 and the tap is like 7 I put r/o in first then tap them cal mag and rest of nutrients, by then ph is around 6.5 and the I use ph down to 5.8 it will go up a few points next 2 day then it just plummets.

 

[Ponky]

Needs more buffering. Or more regular adjustments.

 

[Waterlogged]

Needs more buffering. Or more regular adjustments.

So your saying use more ph up before I add my nutrients then bring it down?

 

[Aqua Man]

RO water has no alkalinity (ability to resist ph change from acid)

The ph of RO water is insignificant as PH is a result of the ratio of alkaline to acidic makeup dissolved in water and that's what determine PH stability or ability to resist change.

When you add alkalinity you will need to add more acid to bring ph down. This creates a much more stable PH.

Nutrients are general slightly acidic. Leaving out the ion exchange of gasses and plants see below.

Fast visual

A=alkalinity B=acids

RO water no A or B neutral PH of 7 (although it's not even 7 because the water absorbes co2 from the air and forms some carbonic acid so it's a bit lower)

So in this case RO
0A and 1B. 100% increase to acids large shift in PH.

Then add nutrients

BBBBB becomes very acidic and I won't go into a PH crash but can cause that.

Now tap water for eg. It contains carbonates and bicarbonate which are alkaline.

AAAA now co2 that forms carbonic acid B

AAAA/B ratio more alkaline PH high because imratio is 4A to 1B

Now take RO and add a buffer to it like (potassium silicate, calcium carbonates, potassium bicarbonate, potassium hydroxide)

AAAAAAA

Now add nutrients to it

AAAAAAA BBBBBBB Ph is fairly neutral around 7 so ph down add another 1-2Bs to get what ya want.

Now that's much more stable than just RO and no buffer because any acid or alkaline sources added will change the ratios much less.

 

[Aqua Man]

I explain it better here.

Marijuana pH Levels for Growing Weed: A Basic Explanation

OK I'm going to do my best to explain PH since its something that is for the most part greatly misunderstood and can be confusing to new growers and even experienced growers alike. This will explain why we need both ppm and PH meters to give us informed information about PH This will be a...

www.thcfarmer.com

 

[Aqua Man]

So your saying use more ph up before I add my nutrients then bring it down?

Yes add 1/2tsp to 5gal of water first. Then add nutrients and ph down.

I say 1/2 because you want to start low and move up to what's needed.

A 0.2 ph rise is normal over about 24hrs.

 

[Waterlogged]

Yes add 1/2tsp to 5gal of water first. Then add nutrients and ph down.

I say 1/2 because you want to start low and move up to what's needed.

A 0.2 ph rise is normal over about 24hrs.

So if my r/o water is 5.7 your saying add ph up, ok up to 6.5? Then add tap water to 75ppm then nutrients? Then ph down to 5.8?

 

[growsince79]

So if my r/o water is 5.7 your saying add ph up, ok up to 6.5? Then add tap water to 75ppm then nutrients? Then ph down to 5.8?

RO ph is nothing. No point in even trying to adjust it. Just use more tap - about 150-200ppm.

 

[Waterlogged]

RO ph is nothing. No point in even trying to adjust it. Just use more tap - about 150-200ppm.

RO ph is nothing. No point in even trying to adjust it. Just use more tap - about 150-200ppm.

So r/o first, then tap to 150-200 ppm then nutrients to 800 then ph down?

 

[Aqua Man]

RO ph is nothing. No point in even trying to adjust it. Just use more tap - about 150-200ppm.

This.

 

[Aqua Man]

So r/o first, then tap to 150-200 ppm then nutrients to 800 then ph down?

Yes.

 

[Waterlogged]

I didn't do chemistry at school. So this post is, at best, for peer review.

If you use Nitric (grow) acid. It disassociates completely in water. Finds the calcium carbonate. Oxidises the carbon away as co2, and forms calcium nitrate.
If you use Phosphoric acid, half disassociates in water. Burns off the carbon and creates calcium phosphate which isn't available.

The nitty gritty of it is, that by adding acid, you remove the alkalinity. It's not just balanced out. It's gone.

Is it gone. Left as bubbles due to oxidation. I really don't know. Various resources suggest it though.

Adding hardness with carbonates and then burning them off again, seems redundant.

Edit: I have calculated the N-acid requirement to release the calcium in my tap, and run a few laps with it. My work did align with charts. I know I'm not miles off..

Ty.

 

[Waterlogged]

I didn't do chemistry at school. So this post is, at best, for peer review.

If you use Nitric (grow) acid. It disassociates completely in water. Finds the calcium carbonate. Oxidises the carbon away as co2, and forms calcium nitrate.
If you use Phosphoric acid, half disassociates in water. Burns off the carbon and creates calcium phosphate which isn't available.

The nitty gritty of it is, that by adding acid, you remove the alkalinity. It's not just balanced out. It's gone.

Is it gone. Left as bubbles due to oxidation. I really don't know. Various resources suggest it though.

Adding hardness with carbonates and then burning them off again, seems redundant.

Edit: I have calculated the N-acid requirement to release the calcium in my tap, and run a few laps with it. My work did align with charts. I know I'm not miles off..

Ty

I didn't catch what substrate you are using. I ask, as while this is all going on in the tank, it's a hell of a crash. To me, it's more than a buffering problem. I mean.. you can see the stuff growing in there. The idea of it being possible has passed. You have seen it's happening for sure. I'm asking after the substrate as that's where this tank goes next. I need to know what it is, and it's runoff numbers. I can't recommend using pH down until I know about the conditions beyond the insides of your tank.

I suggest you invest 10$ into a UV sterilising light. It's just a 150mm UV tube, within a 150mm glass pipe. Which floats. Or you can stick it down. It's a lot like a tank heater to look at. Only tank heaters don't send you blind. Never look at the pretty violet light. Just chuck it in after you fill up, and let it bob around for half hour while the circulation pump does what it can. You may wish to first drain the tank and spray it with h2o2 as a proper clean, then use the UV light as preventative. The idea here, is to kill off the bad stuff, with anything you have. Not toilet bleach as it contains a snotting agent and smellies, but cheap ass unscented thin bleach from the 25 cent section can be used. Clean the lot. Fill. Swish. Drain it away. Stop any light getting in. Wrap it in tin foil and fold your own lid if you must. Once full, the UV light is the last little polish that makes it all good. It can't be used after the feed goes in though.



You seem to be using branded stuff, which doesn't get flagged very often. I don't think it's that acidic that it's burning off all the hardness. Then dropping the tank further. Not at reasonable doses. You were at least using some tap, which believe me, most are not. So I can't see your problem being entirely caused by a lack of hardness. In any case, what substrate you are using will tell you if yo should be adding acid or not. Or how much.

 

[Waterlogged]

I didn't catch what substrate you are using. I ask, as while this is all going on in the tank, it's a hell of a crash. To me, it's more than a buffering problem. I mean.. you can see the stuff growing in there. The idea of it being possible has passed. You have seen it's happening for sure. I'm asking after the substrate as that's where this tank goes next. I need to know what it is, and it's runoff numbers. I can't recommend using pH down until I know about the conditions beyond the insides of your tank.

I suggest you invest 10$ into a UV sterilising light. It's just a 150mm UV tube, within a 150mm glass pipe. Which floats. Or you can stick it down. It's a lot like a tank heater to look at. Only tank heaters don't send you blind. Never look at the pretty violet light. Just chuck it in after you fill up, and let it bob around for half hour while the circulation pump does what it can. You may wish to first drain the tank and spray it with h2o2 as a proper clean, then use the UV light as preventative. The idea here, is to kill off the bad stuff, with anything you have. Not toilet bleach as it contains a snotting agent and smellies, but cheap ass unscented thin bleach from the 25 cent section can be used. Clean the lot. Fill. Swish. Drain it away. Stop any light getting in. Wrap it in tin foil and fold your own lid if you must. Once full, the UV light is the last little polish that makes it all good. It can't be used after the feed goes in though.



You seem to be using branded stuff, which doesn't get flagged very often. I don't think it's that acidic that it's burning off all the hardness. Then dropping the tank further. Not at reasonable doses. You were at least using some tap, which believe me, most are not. So I can't see your problem being entirely caused by a lack of hardness. In any case, what substrate you are using will tell you if yo should be adding acid or not. Or how much.

Ty

 

[Waterlogged]

Yes.

Ty

 

[Waterlogged]

RO ph is nothing. No point in even trying to adjust it. Just use more tap - about 150-200ppm.

Ty

 

[Waterlogged]

RO water has no alkalinity (ability to resist ph change from acid)

The ph of RO water is insignificant as PH is a result of the ratio of alkaline to acidic makeup dissolved in water and that's what determine PH stability or ability to resist change.

When you add alkalinity you will need to add more acid to bring ph down. This creates a much more stable PH.

Nutrients are general slightly acidic. Leaving out the ion exchange of gasses and plants see below.

Fast visual

A=alkalinity B=acids

RO water no A or B neutral PH of 7 (although it's not even 7 because the water absorbes co2 from the air and forms some carbonic acid so it's a bit lower)

So in this case RO
0A and 1B. 100% increase to acids large shift in PH.

Then add nutrients

BBBBB becomes very acidic and I won't go into a PH crash but can cause that.

Now tap water for eg. It contains carbonates and bicarbonate which are alkaline.

AAAA now co2 that forms carbonic acid B

AAAA/B ratio more alkaline PH high because imratio is 4A to 1B

Now take RO and add a buffer to it like (potassium silicate, calcium carbonates, potassium bicarbonate, potassium hydroxide)

AAAAAAA

Now add nutrients to it

AAAAAAA BBBBBBB Ph is fairly neutral around 7 so ph down add another 1-2Bs to get what ya want.

Now that's much more stable than just RO and no buffer because any acid or alkaline sources added will change the ratios much less.

Ty