Ph Dropping From 5.8 To 3.9 Overnight! What Is Causing This?

RFT · Dec 29, 2019

chemistry said:
From top to bottom, this has been coming for at least a week, the yellow leaves at the bottom look to have been scavenged to feed the dark tops, why? Maybe it couldn't feed? The water flow to the plant has ceased, this is evident from it's collapsed appearance. Only one suspect here. The Vicor, Lead Piping, The Library.

Im trying to do the same detective work.

We know it’s not environmental. Because the other zones are fine.

We know it’s not the system (flow rate, pitch) because this is one of many cycles ran thru this system.

I agree it’s been a week, maybe more in the making. U can see the perkiness of the plants in the pics from 2 weeks ago. Then the perk is gone last monday. Then the drooping set in. Now the yellowing.

You’re right, they’re not taking up water or nutes. Roots look healthy tho.

Pathogen?
Lockout?
Would russet mites do this?

RFT · Dec 29, 2019

chemistry said:
What about your lights out temps? That can take it out of a plant in a short space of time.

Ambient air in the 40s

Resi temps in the 50’s

In my experience root zone temps are primarily what matter.

And since none of the other zones appear affected by identical conditions, im inclined to think the problem is in the root zone still.

RFT · Dec 29, 2019

Just checked the nute bottles, the Liquid Kool Bloom has some white stuff floating in it. Appears to be a mold of some sort. Could that be the cause of the pathogen?

Aqua Man · Dec 29, 2019

What kinda white stuff? Like tissue paper?

RFT · Dec 29, 2019

Aqua Man said:
What kinda white stuff? Like tissue paper?

No. Like floating bubbles on the surface. Here is a pic.

Aqua Man · Dec 29, 2019

RFT said:
No. Like floating bubbles on the surface. Here is a pic.

I think @Dirtbag had something similar. Not sure if he ever figured it out.

RFT · Dec 29, 2019

Resi is flushed.

Gonna hit it with FLORASHIELD (anti microbial) and let that circulate for 1-2 hrs @ 40ml / gallon

Then flush again.

Then add a systemic fungicide that treats diseases.

Then flush.

Then finally hit it with 2ml/gal of Hydroguard and let that circulate indefinitely.

In the down time I will foliar feed to get these babies some food/hydration.

Any objections to this course of action?

Aqua Man · Dec 29, 2019

RFT said:
Resi is flushed.

Gonna hit it with FLORASHIELD (anti microbial) and let that circulate for 1-2 hrs @ 40ml / gallon

Then flush again.

Then add a systemic fungicide that treats diseases.

Then flush.

Then finally hit it with 2ml/gal of Hydroguard and let that circulate indefinitely.

In the down time I will foliar feed to get these babies some food/hydration.

Any objections to this course of action?

I'm not a fan of foliars but then again I never really gave them much of a go.

I would try to correct those temps. Healthy plants may be ok but stressed plants I don't think will do well in those conditions.

RFT · Dec 29, 2019

Aqua Man said:
I'm not a fan of foliars but then again I never really gave them much of a go.

I would try to correct those temps. Healthy plants may be ok but stressed plants I don't think will do well in those conditions.

What temps?

Currently it is 71 degrees & 70% rh

Resi is 65 degrees

Aqua Man · Dec 29, 2019

RFT said:
What temps?

Currently it is 71 degrees & 70% rh

Resi is 65 degrees

Night temps also day temps I would increase if possible

RFT · Dec 29, 2019

Here’s the basics of what we know:

- LKB has mold growing in it. Obvious contamination.

- problem started last week (would coincide with when I swapped to this LKB bottle)

- got worse after last flush/feeding (heavy LKB ratio)

- symptoms show lockout & not drinking & rapidly deteriorating

My question is this... Would a pathogen create these symptoms? Would a pathogen cause no drinking?

RFT · Dec 29, 2019

So I hit it with 2 gallons of the FloraShield. For a moment everything seemed to go into a bit of shock.

But after flushing that out, plants started to perk up considerably. And even some of the really droopy ones are starting to recover.

I've hit it with the fungicide and now Im just waiting for the flush to finish. Then the Hydroguard will get a few days if not a week to do it's magic.

As of now, it doesnt look like I'll lose this cycle. I'll update you all in the morning. Thanks for everyone's help during this crisis.

At this time I can only think it was the LKB being contaminated and spreading a pathogen. After speaking to some other growers, they've seen the same issue many times. It appears that stuff has a shelf life of 60 days once opened. So I will stick to smaller concentrate bottles that I have to change out more frequently. And that goes for all my nutes.

Im really tired of the hiccups. Each cycle seems to be something different.

Crap clones from a supplier hurt us bad for a few months
Then trying out h202 killed a whole zone in under 5 minutes
Huge algae blooms
Power outtages from fires severely stunted one run
Wild pH fluctuations
Silica causing fallout
Auto Doser getting clogged causing Nitrogen deficiencies have stunged a zone
And now a contaminated bottle of LKB seems to have passed on a pathogen and was on it's way to killing a zone

What a trip. I really need to get a few wins under my belt before the next major hurdle.

TheBioMaster · Dec 30, 2019

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but House & Garden makes a pH stabilizer ......you might could try that to eliminate the pH drops. The stuff is extremely concentrated and does work well.

I'm sure you will get it worked!

MidwestToker · Dec 30, 2019

Here is a few pics of root rot that I had from a run several years ago, some in flower some in veg. Once they get like this there is no coming back.

Only way I got the flowers plant to finish was by foliage feeding the last week.

RFT · Dec 30, 2019

MidwestToker said:
Here is a few pics of root rot that I had from a run several years ago, some in flower some in veg. Once they get like this there is no coming back.View attachment 925582 View attachment 925584 View attachment 925585 View attachment 925586 View attachment 925587 View attachment 925588 View attachment 925589 View attachment 925590
Only way I got the flowers plant to finish was by foliage feeding the last week.

Daily foliar feed?

What EC?

The symptoms look the same. Whatever pathogen I got hurt these guys bad. And I dealt with the matter too slowly.

As of this morning the symptoms are not worse. Looks like about 15-20% of crop is damaged.

If I could just finish with 50-70% of the yield I was on trajectory for, I’d gladly settle for that. I just cant lose the whole run.

I hope things last another 2 weeks at least.

MidwestToker · Dec 30, 2019

200 ppm, as you can see they where not fare off from harvest when the problem was encountered, The strange thing it affected only that one strain some in veg and some in flower in 2 separate areas of veg and flower, Strains growing right next to them never had a problem with root rot and to this day I have not seen any of my plants affected by root rot. Luckily I have given out the genetics and was able to get her back and have had no trouble out of her since.

RFT · Dec 30, 2019

MidwestToker said:
200 ppm, as you can see they where not fare off from harvest when the problem was encountered, The strange thing it affected only that one strain some in veg and some in flower in 2 separate areas of veg and flower, Strains growing right next to them never had a problem with root rot and to this day I have not seen any of my plants affected by root rot. Luckily I have given out the genetics and was able to get her back and have had no trouble out of her since.

Pathogens (like root rot) need shared mediums to spread. Thus why yours didnt since you’re in soil.

Being that Im in hydro, if one gets sick, they’re likely all going to get sick, and fast.

Fingers crossed on if I’ve done enough to give the healthy ones a fighting chance.

MidwestToker · Dec 30, 2019

RFT said:
Pathogens (like root rot) need shared mediums to spread. Thus why yours didnt since you’re in soil.

Being that Im in hydro, if one gets sick, they’re likely all going to get sick, and fast.

Fingers crossed on if I’ve done enough to give the healthy ones a fighting chance.

Coco coir, how did it transfer to different pots across different rooms and different stages of growth? I'd check your mother plants and watch them closely to see if they start looking affected, maybe lingering in one of them and not rearing it's head till condition are right.

4plant · Dec 30, 2019

I like to add 20% tap water to system with the ro. Seems to stabilize ph but also try giving the bucket your testing in a good stir before you dunk your meter. I’ve had my ph drop before and seems like something was falling out of suspension, with a stir ph cane right back up?

RFT · Dec 30, 2019

MidwestToker said:
Coco coir, how did it transfer to different pots across different rooms and different stages of growth?

Likely the same mistake was made in those various pots.

Odd that you would get root rot in coco coir. It's one of the more air filled mediums. Pretty difficult to overwater.

Maybe it wasnt root rot from overwatering but some sort of pathogen? That would be my guess. Either way, how it was able to spread still leaves question marks.

I've never had issues with pathogens or root born issues. All these problems Im experiencing at this site are VERY new to me. I've always just designed facilities well & stuck to the basics. So Im not the best one to ask on some of this stuff. As evidenced by the fact that Im currently dealing with so many issues myself.

I've always just been able to prevent issues. Be it PM, mites, or anything else.

I'd check your mother plants and watch them closely to see if they start looking affected, maybe lingering in one of them and not rearing it's head till condition are right.

At this time Im left with only blaming that LKB mold.

Ph Dropping From 5.8 To 3.9 Overnight! What Is Causing This?

Ph Dropping From 5.8 To 3.9 Overnight! What Is Causing This?

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Ph Dropping From 5.8 To 3.9 Overnight! What Is Causing This?

Ph Dropping From 5.8 To 3.9 Overnight! What Is Causing This?

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