Phenotype variation in female seeds

[Iseberge2004]

Phenotype variation in female seeds (s1's)

Do you get a variation in phenotype when using s1's seeds, since they only come from one plant?

 

[Charles Xavier]

Greetings Iseberge2004

Short answer: Yes.

(The degree of variation is dependent on the 'stability' of the original P1, its recombinant potential, and the influence of true phenotypic expression)

Sincerely,
Charles

 

[Iseberge2004]

Thanks fellas, yes ripz I'm on the serious forum all the time & simon does have the most stable beans I've ever come across. Seen a recent AK grow, just liked you describe your white russians...couldn't tell if they were clones or from seed.

 

[koopa troopa]

charles is right about recombination.

i didn't run too many kksc s1's, but there was not too much variation except in nute sensitivity.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

IMO, it is easier to select from a group of females for all traits, than it is to try to discern the traits of the male. I don't think folks do much of a selection when it comes to males, other than they have one and it looks good, so it gets used.

If using a group of females, on the other hand, it is much easier to discern which plants would be desirable and which are not. If you have two killer female sisters, and force stamen from one and use it to pollinate it's sister, you will have a real good idea of what the progeny will hold. Much more of an idea than if you used on of it's brothers, of which you really know little about.
How many folks grow a male all the way out to check on hermie traits? How many actually smoke the male to see if it is even worth using?

IMO, pheno expression is going to/can be much more funneled down using stressed pollen than using male pollen.

 

[Charles Xavier]

Greetings hoosierdaddy

Nice tangent.

it is easier to select from a group of females for all traits, than it is to try to discern the traits of the male.....If using a group of females, on the other hand, it is much easier to discern which plants would be desirable and which are not....hoosierdaddy

Provided (of course) that the interest is on the female side of the line; every serious breeder acknowledges this

Anyone who poo-poos female to female pairings don't quite know what they're talking about; it is an indispensable and oft used tool for solidly fixing complex linked traits (especially if one is under the constraints of time)

If you have two killer female sisters, and force stamen from one and use it to pollinate it's sister, you will have a real good idea of what the progeny will hold....hoosierdaddy

Provided that both express the trait(s) that is being selected for.

Line breeding is an exercise in probability; the exclusion of extraneous variation narrows the field of play and brings the goal closer.

Sincerely,
Charles

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Charles, I would love to hear your take on the S1. That being a plant that pollinates itself or it's clones, rather than other siblings of the group.
I am a genetic biology numbskull, and I am curious about how a "genetic dead end" can come about in the selfing.