phosphorous myth?

[captain.koons]

http://www.growersunderground.com/blog/hydroponics-articles/the-great-phosphorus-myth-exposed

So basically AN's CEO/Spokesman Big Mike says he had a bunch of tissue analysis' via gas chromatography to graph the nutrient needs of various popular plants such as White Rhino, Northern Lights, etc. It shows the nutrient needs for both vegetative and flowering plants. The N in the graphs shows that in flowering it's often times more needed than in veg if not very similar. The Phosphorous would be extremely low in veg and remain so in flowering. He says that this myth of too much phosphorous makes weed harsh. He further claims that all nutrient companies have their bloom boosters wrong because they give far too much P... he says Big Bud and Kushie Kush have the right ratios because of this research.

So what's everyone think?

 

[nog]

htf does a glc machine measure "nutrient needs", sorry but as far as ime aware it will give you a breakdown of the constituents of a substance. nutrient needs of a plant depend upon a whole bunch of variables, light,temp etc etc,?????? sounds like an trying to blind you with science.
ps we use glc machines at work.

 

[captain.koons]

he uses gas chromatography to measure the abundance of nutrients found in the plant tissues I believe.

Wouldn't it be possible to measure the ratios of nutrients up taken by this way?

 

[Seamaiden]

What's a GLC machine?

A friend gave me a Kushie Kush t-shirt. It's a nice shirt.

Capt., I recently heard about this, but I'm still a little incredulous. For one thing, not one person has ever told me my weed smokes harshly. Perhaps that's because I work so hard to keep it as organic as possible, who knows. But I have already learned the lesson of pushing too much nitrogen later in flower and will never make that mistake again.

 

[cymbaline]

if the plants were getting too much phosphorous wouldn't they display symptoms? Or would most of us not notice since P toxicity tends to lock out
iron and zinc which isn't as noticeable as other types of lockouts?

I noticed the date on these reports are from 7 years ago; seems odd that this
hasn't been referenced very much if at all by other farmers.
I'm not familiar with reading these analysis reports but why do they do a micro nutrient report and include Phosphorous/Potassium but do not include nitrogen?
I do agree too much P in the late stages of flowering without flushing will make a harsh experience; plus will probably give you some sparkles when flamed.

Good food for thought, thanks for sharing.

 

[Black Thumb]

I kept waiting for someone to come from behind and wail off and bitch slap him in that video.
Is it just me or is he very unlikable ?

 

[waayne]

No Black Thumb it's not just you!
Careful what you say.Big Mike might send the Russian mafia after you.LOL

 

[captain.koons]

I'm not familiar with reading these analysis reports but why do they do a micro nutrient report and include Phosphorous/Potassium but do not include nitrogen?
I do agree too much P in the late stages of flowering without flushing will make a harsh experience; plus will probably give you some sparkles when flamed.

On the charts it went N P K Mg Ca

 

[Obi-Wan Kanabis]

Its just a way he came up with to explain why his nutrient bottles contain so little nutrients. :P

 

[cymbaline]

On the charts it went N P K Mg Ca

Right I saw it on his charts, I was referencing the pdf with the micronutrient analysis. Did you read the pdf and notice that or did I miss it?

 

[FileError404]

AN's newest claim is that we can all throw our pH and ppm/EC meters in the garbage. Great, but I'll hold off on that until I see some proof...

 

[Loudblunts]

htf does a glc machine measure "nutrient needs", sorry but as far as ime aware it will give you a breakdown of the constituents of a substance. nutrient needs of a plant depend upon a whole bunch of variables, light,temp etc etc,?????? sounds like an trying to blind you with science.
ps we use glc machines at work.

i blv you are right....

there was a dude back on another forum who actually broke down why and how this 'mythbuster' video was actually bunk and a myth itself... because of the same exact thing you are hitting on...

something to the extent of 'a gas chromatography machine wouldnt be appropriate in this situation because of x and then he mentioned something about being a 'wet'/'fresh' sample of the plant...and how the gas chromatography would actually destroy the sample' or some shit

 

[Inuit]

Yep, this thread is on the right track. There are many studies done with plants regarding N and other element usage and uptake by plants. GC analyzes what the tissue is composed of, not necessarily the uptake of nutrients. Different tissue types also will have different compositions.

GC does also heat the sample(turning it into gas, hence, gas chromatography), which is why its kind of silly to use for quantitative work in secondary metabolites(thc,cbc, etc), since on heating, many of the chemicals are changed. Liquid chromatography would be better as the sample is dissolved into a solvent and not heated.

Be safe

I

 

[metalhead419]

I don't know about gas chromatography, but all that sounded right to me. As far as not using to much Phosphorus in budding until the last couple weeks, when it is necessary for ripening. GH has 2 bloom boosters, as does H&G, the first is 0 10 10 for gh, the H&G is a PK 13 14 type of product, and they both have a ripening booster that is like 2 45 28 or something like that. I use the 0-10-10 from about the 2nd week until 2 weeks to flush then i run the 2-45-28 and flush after that. Is that kind of how you guys do it?

 

[Loudblunts]

Yep, this thread is on the right track. There are many studies done with plants regarding N and other element usage and uptake by plants. GC analyzes what the tissue is composed of, not necessarily the uptake of nutrients. Different tissue types also will have different compositions.

GC does also heat the sample(turning it into gas, hence, gas chromatography), which is why its kind of silly to use for quantitative work in secondary metabolites(thc,cbc, etc), since on heating, many of the chemicals are changed. Liquid chromatography would be better as the sample is dissolved into a solvent and not heated.

Be safe

I

WOW!!! you must be that dude who i was talking about said something on this other thread...lol

nice job, thanks!

 

[captain.koons]

AN's newest claim is that we can all throw our pH and ppm/EC meters in the garbage. Great, but I'll hold off on that until I see some proof...

This claim is for the system they have. You use 4ml/gal of base nutes and 2 ml/gal of the additives and that's all apparently.

I will still pH but PPM isn't really necessary if you know your nutes and use RO or know your water supply.

 

[captain.koons]

Yep, this thread is on the right track. There are many studies done with plants regarding N and other element usage and uptake by plants. GC analyzes what the tissue is composed of, not necessarily the uptake of nutrients. Different tissue types also will have different compositions.

GC does also heat the sample(turning it into gas, hence, gas chromatography), which is why its kind of silly to use for quantitative work in secondary metabolites(thc,cbc, etc), since on heating, many of the chemicals are changed. Liquid chromatography would be better as the sample is dissolved into a solvent and not heated.

Be safe

I

If he included what tissues were tested it would make more sense. I understand that the vascular tissues, root and shoot tips contain the most phosphorus. Foliage holds a lot of nitrogen so I assume he must have tested a leave sample.

 

[Mr.Sputnik]

Kushie Kush is the gayest shit to hit the market since clear pepsi. Different strains have different nutrient requirements. Hell, different phenos have different nutrient requirements. Advanced Nutrients markets a bunch of jibber jabber so hopefully you'll pay 1000% more for the same crap with a fancy lable. If you're buying a kush specific finisher, you should probably use kush specific dirt, a kush specific cloner, smoke out of a kush specific pipe, and carry it in your kush specific pants. GAYness...

EDIT: Oh, and check for Gibberellic Acid (GAA) in those finishers. These companies won't say of their products contain it. It's a hormone that causes buds to gain up to 50% in mass, but at the risk of hermie! It fucked my last crop (Hermie City!!), cost me thousands. It's in Gravity, yes gravity has hormones in it despite what the label says. Who's testing these products, a bunch of stoners? Sure.. I'll stick with GH ferts, at least they'll be honest about what's in there.

 

[Loudblunts]

i literally L-O-L @ "kushie kush is the gayest shit to hit the market since clear pepsi"

 

[captain.koons]

Kushie Kush is the gayest shit to hit the market since clear pepsi. Different strains have different nutrient requirements. Hell, different phenos have different nutrient requirements. Advanced Nutrients markets a bunch of jibber jabber so hopefully you'll pay 1000% more for the same crap with a fancy lable. If you're buying a kush specific finisher, you should probably use kush specific dirt, a kush specific cloner, smoke out of a kush specific pipe, and carry it in your kush specific pants. GAYness...

EDIT: Oh, and check for Gibberellic Acid (GAA) in those finishers. These companies won't say of their products contain it. It's a hormone that causes buds to gain up to 50% in mass, but at the risk of hermie! It fucked my last crop (Hermie City!!), cost me thousands. It's in Gravity, yes gravity has hormones in it despite what the label says. Who's testing these products, a bunch of stoners? Sure.. I'll stick with GH ferts, at least they'll be honest about what's in there.

How do you know Gravity has GAA?