Plants dying! Papery leaves/overwatered?? Please help!!

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J

Jaydee86

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Have you measured the amount of light you're hitting them with? It's easy to overdo it with LEDs.
Initially this is what I did, the led lights are much more intense with a tighter spread and was double what the hps bulb was putting out.
The plants recovered well.
But then I turned exhaust/intake fans on and turned the 250w hps upto 400w few days later this starts to happen!
Maybe I don't have enough humidity??
 
J

Jaydee86

59
18
How about your ph/ec meters… are they calibrated? How about letting your water stabilize for 15 minutes then rechecking your ph? Just another idea to consider among the many.
Yea I've got bluelab tools that get calibrated at least once a month.
The only difference from when they were doing well is lower humidity and lower ppms.
Thanks for the reply dude 👍
 
jguit

jguit

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Initially this is what I did, the led lights are much more intense with a tighter spread and was double what the hps bulb was putting out.
The plants recovered well.
But then I turned exhaust/intake fans on and turned the 250w hps upto 400w few days later this starts to happen!
Maybe I don't have enough humidity??
Humidity is fine, I've grown in much drier conditions without issues. I would download one of those free lux meters for your phone if you don't have any way to measure light. I've never used the phone apps personally but you'd at least get an idea of where you are.
 
J

Jaydee86

59
18
I’m assuming those 2 3000 series lights are 300 true watts per light giving you 600 true watts total? You got the horsepower if so as long there is no light burn. How about if you let them dry out to where the leaves are drooping, do they bounce back up in a light cycle or two in response to a water only?

I don’t grow in rock wool, but I did find that they do hold onto nutes very well. I have a feeling, with your grow style, they are going to recover in your soil mix. I know that isn’t 100 percent what you need at the moment. I know the struggle is real as shit man!
I'm hoping they will recover somewhat, it's just hard watching them wither up and not knowing why or how? So I've switched the fans off to raise humidity and see if that helps at all??
I'm reading a bit about led growing and what's going on is that led lights don't have enough heat and infrared to help transpiration of the plants.... So sometimes they can hold onto water and become victim of overwatering??
Something like that anyways.
 
visajoe1

visajoe1

799
143
I'm using a recirculating nft system, with airstone in the reservoir, my ppms are 850, pH 5.8, temps between 20-25c, rh average of 55-60.
Lights were 2x Mars hydro ts 3000 in a 1.2m x 2.4m tent.



Few things stand out here:

-needs more light (run both Mars 3000 at 100%, 24" from canopy) 250w is not enough light for your tent, they'll stay droopy. Put the LED's back in.
-needs more food, bring it back to the 1350 you had it at
-air temp too low, need to be 28-30c, same RH. we can run higher air temps with LED's since less IR
 
jguit

jguit

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I missed your temps.. 20C - 25C is kinda low for LEDs.. Try to get your temps in the low 80s. I've had temps in the mid 70s with LEDs but didn't have droopy plants like yours.
 
J

Jaydee86

59
18
Humidity is fine, I've grown in much drier conditions without issues. I would download one of those free lux meters for your phone if you don't have any way to measure light. I've never used the phone apps personally but you'd at least get an idea of where you are.
Yea I've got a lux meter and found that led are much more intense but with a tighter spread.
And that some people using led lights are finding that the minimal heat and infrared can cause problems with transpiration of the plants?
It's like water is supposed to go up through the roots, up the plants and out through the leaves?
But with this it's not going out through the leaves maybe, almost as if it's blocked from exiting through the leaves?
I hope that kind of makes sense??
 
jguit

jguit

Supporter
895
143
Yea I've got a lux meter and found that led are much more intense but with a tighter spread.
And that some people using led lights are finding that the minimal heat and infrared can cause problems with transpiration of the plants?
It's like water is supposed to go up through the roots, up the plants and out through the leaves?
But with this it's not going out through the leaves maybe, almost as if it's blocked from exiting through the leaves?
I hope that kind of makes sense??
Raise your temps, for starters.
 
J

Jaydee86

59
18
Few things stand out here:

-needs more light (run both Mars 3000 at 100%, 24" from canopy) 250w is not enough light for your tent, they'll stay droopy. Put the LED's back in.
-needs more food, bring it back to the 1350 you had it at
-air temp too low, need to be 28-30c, same RH. we can run higher air temps with LED's since less IR
Thanks for the reply mate good stuff!
The reason I switched lights is because I thought it was too much and they bounced back under the 250w mh but only for 2 weeks until the problem returned.
I've switched off the fans and increased nute strength to see what happens.
Hopefully they will recover.
 
Solarscar

Solarscar

120
28
Just to throw this in. I’m running


500+ true led watts (with incorporated supplement IR and UV) brand .

12 inches above canopy

Canopy is 79 Fahrenheit
Bottom of pot is on foam board
Bottom pot temps 71 Fahrenheit
RH is around 35-40

no issues with growth.
middle of week 5 flower.

same parameters since seed.
 
Solarscar

Solarscar

120
28
Few things stand out here:

-needs more light (run both Mars 3000 at 100%, 24" from canopy) 250w is not enough light for your tent, they'll stay droopy. Put the LED's back in.
-needs more food, bring it back to the 1350 you had it at
-air temp too low, need to be 28-30c, same RH. we can run higher air temps with LED's since less IR
This is true
 
J

Jaydee86

59
18
Just to throw this in. I’m running


500+ true led watts (with incorporated supplement IR and UV) brand .

12 inches above canopy

Canopy is 79 Fahrenheit
Bottom of pot is on foam board
Bottom pot temps 71 Fahrenheit
RH is around 35-40

no issues with growth.
middle of week 5 flower.

same parameters since seed.
Do you find that you have to run higher temps to avoid overwatering issues?
What medium/method are you using??
 
visajoe1

visajoe1

799
143
In rockwool in a recirculating nft system and some in a soil/coco mix.
The problem is with both mediums which has me thinking its environmental??
yikes, you like a challenge, i can dig that. most try to stick to one medium, eliminates variables.

in a nutshell, i think the issue is a combination of some environmental things I mentioned and your mediums. rockwool and coco/soil mix operate differently; how much differently depends how much soil is in that coco.
What percentage is soil/coco?

are you able to feed rockwool separately? need proper wet/dry cycles, this will be different between each medium. Solving the issue for one, creates an issue for the other, if feed is linked. separate would help
 
J

Jaydee86

59
18
yikes, you like a challenge, i can dig that. most try to stick to one medium, eliminates variables.

in a nutshell, i think the issue is a combination of some environmental things I mentioned and your mediums. rockwool and coco/soil mix operate differently; how much differently depends how much soil is in that coco.
What percentage is soil/coco?

are you able to feed rockwool separately? need proper wet/dry cycles, this will be different between each medium. Solving the issue for one, creates an issue for the other, if feed is linked. separate would help
So I've only taken some out to try and save them which was going well as they all recovered but then 2 weeks later the problem comes back!
It really looks like overwatering or the plants have somehow gone into survival mode?
Leaves are drooping and dry like paper it's so weird.
Both the rockwool and pots get fed differently so I know it's not the nutrients.
Like others have said, maybe temps need to be higher??
 
Solarscar

Solarscar

120
28
Do you find that you have to run higher temps to avoid overwatering issues?
What medium/method are you using??
Yes. I keep lots of lights in a tight space for 4 plants and keep the grow room door open with an additional big fan to speed up the drying and keep them gnats from taking flight. I wait until my containers are 75 percent light. I grow in 5 gallon fabric pot which aids in the drying process as I am growing in FFOF soil. When my medium is dry two knuckles down, I wait 24 hrs to water them with 20 percent run off. I water, generally every 3 to 4 days as long as I don’t see them drooping and stressing out.
 
Solarscar

Solarscar

120
28
So I've only taken some out to try and save them which was going well as they all recovered but then 2 weeks later the problem comes back!
It really looks like overwatering or the plants have somehow gone into survival mode?
Leaves are drooping and dry like paper it's so weird.
Both the rockwool and pots get fed differently so I know it's not the nutrients.
Like others have said, maybe temps need to be .
I think you guys are onto something with waiting to near max dry-out cycles before watering. How long is yours taking to dry out? I can only imagine that is semi difficult with rock wool. I’ve avoided high maintenance systems and adamantly stick to a big battery of a soil buffering medium. I think I may go for a bigger KISS system and do a synganic approach with recharge and soil on my next grow. Shit gets crazy stressful when you need your medicine on time!
 
I

ItalianWiseGuy

7
1
Hi guy's I've been doing little bits for a fair few years now and the past year I've not been able to complete a full grow because of this 1 problem and I cannot work out what's going on.
I'm scratching my head in desperation trying all different things but whatever I do to make improvements my plants will take a turn for the worst just randomly and start dying until they quickly become shrivelled and lifeless.
Before any of you guy's ask about my growing environment its 100% perfect.
I'm using a recirculating nft system, with airstone in the reservoir, my ppms are 850, pH 5.8, temps between 20-25c, rh average of 55-60.
Lights were 2x Mars hydro ts 3000 in a 1.2m x 2.4m tent.
This is what happens to my plants, they will start to look like the leaves are heavy, like they're full of weight and drooping over almost like they're over watered and the leaves are full of water?? But at the same time the leaves feel dry like paper!
Very dehydrated feeling with no moisture to the touch.
Eventually the leaves will be so droopy and so dry they will crisp into dust.
Surely Someone out there has seen this before?? I'm beginning to think it's some kind of plant disease maybe in my environment??
My plants should be very healthy as every parameter is spot on yet they are dying mysteriously every time!
I notice that the veins of the leaves look very dark like purple and the leaves going lighter in color before they wilt away and die.
This is very frustrating and really messing with my mental health.
 
growboy420

growboy420

21
3
Hi guy's I've been doing little bits for a fair few years now and the past year I've not been able to complete a full grow because of this 1 problem and I cannot work out what's going on.
I'm scratching my head in desperation trying all different things but whatever I do to make improvements my plants will take a turn for the worst just randomly and start dying until they quickly become shrivelled and lifeless.
Before any of you guy's ask about my growing environment its 100% perfect.
I'm using a recirculating nft system, with airstone in the reservoir, my ppms are 850, pH 5.8, temps between 20-25c, rh average of 55-60.
Lights were 2x Mars hydro ts 3000 in a 1.2m x 2.4m tent.
This is what happens to my plants, they will start to look like the leaves are heavy, like they're full of weight and drooping over almost like they're over watered and the leaves are full of water?? But at the same time the leaves feel dry like paper!
Very dehydrated feeling with no moisture to the touch.
Eventually the leaves will be so droopy and so dry they will crisp into dust.
Surely Someone out there has seen this before?? I'm beginning to think it's some kind of plant disease maybe in my environment??
My plants should be very healthy as every parameter is spot on yet they are dying mysteriously every time!
I notice that the veins of the leaves look very dark like purple and the leaves going lighter in color before they wilt away and die.
This is very frustrating and really messing with my mental health.
Root rot possibly let it dry out..people sometimes think dry leaves means too little water..when it can also be to few healthy roots from date of over watering.
 

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