Plants turn over in ebb and flo

[doBpop]

Hi everyone! (and thanks)

ebb and flow - 4'x4' 60gal res - 6"x6" viastone
25th day into 12/12 7p-7a - girls around 3' tall

I'm having a problem with plants turning over,
Had a couple lay over before but not really a problem til now.

Checked just before lights out last night was fine. Something made me go back about 30 minutes later and half of one table was lid over like dominoes. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr .....
That was fun in the light of a green flashlight!

Been back 50 times (gun shy) checking with no prob til checked again just after lights on and three more laid over.

It seems since the plants started growing roots out of the bottom they also tend to float when flooded which I think contributes to the problem. Mental note to drill extra holes in bottom sides next time.

Now the uneven root masses seem to want to make it hard to balance to 'reset' the plant and even then they don't seem stable..

I raised the angle of the wall fan slightly so as not to blow directly on them as much.

What can I do at this late stage to help with this problem and/or/also do in the future to avoid it?

Also, space limited - can only conveniently get to like two sides of table. (yeah I know now)

THANKS for any/all help.

doBpop
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[biggun4me]

do you have anything around them to anchor them in place? Like maybe hydroton?

 

[doBpop]

do you have anything around them to anchor them in place? Like maybe hydroton?

No but I guess I should have huh LOL!

A friend also said to lower the flood level which should help as well.

Thanks!

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[doBpop]

So do I just cover the roots or bank it up the sides of the pots or what exactly is the goal?

Any pics of my goal anywhere maybe?

Thanks everyone!​

 

[motherlode]

Id like to see some pix of what ya got going on, hard for me to visualize

 

[mikeyg.]

pics would help us to help you if you have them. i'm not sure if this is a floating medium issue or a watering schedule issue at this point, as your plants are also starting to use more water? i guess i am not understanding what "turning over" looks like. are your containers on their sides and tablets everywhere ... or plants wilting and falling over due to a possible lack of water? non floating hydro rocks should be available at your local hydro store for next time. good luck.

 

[doBpop]

Hi and thanks all!

Here's some pics at the 2nd post down. (with others) Sorry wasn't thinking straight.

No pics of the actual laying down event since the goal at that point was to get them back upright ASAP.

What I mean is the whole container and plant turns over and lays down obviously from being top heavy. (and not anchored)

Thanks everyone!
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[motherlode]

you need to make a screen to support them, agricultural trellis and pvc will be your friend

I take it they fall over when they get dry... maybe you need to water them an extra time daily

 

[doBpop]

They seem to be falling over when they are flooded and start floating.

I reduced the drain height (depth of water) which seemed to help. (so far)

It occurs to me if I add any hydroton at this point it will just float around and not stay where I place it or is that ok or am I just an idiot or what am I doing wrong?
ALSO it seems that floating hydroton would be the exception instead of the rule because it seems very few people would want floating hydroton.

So for future reference should I place the containers where they will go in the tray (since they can't be moved once the roots grow in) and then fill the tray with 2-3" of hydroton (NON-floating) around the containers early on before the roots start growing out of the bottoms?

This is also causing stress to the plants by the roots getting light as well is it not?

Also, FTR, hydroton, viastone and hydrostone, etc, etc are all brand names for expanded clay pellets and are actually the same thing right?

Thanks all!

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[motherlode]

maybe they are floating because they get too dry in between - one thing you could do is get some small square pots, drop your cubes in them and add some rock to the top to hold them down

you really need to make some support for them girsl or youll run into more problems and end up with less weight if your branches cant hold the dankage

edit:

saw your thread about the root issue - my idea will solve this as well and you wont have to fill your whole tray with more shit thats gonna float around

they make small sqaure pots the same size as cubes

then get some river rock (cheap ass rock) put a bit in the bottoms of the pots and a bit on top for weight

this will give your roots a bit more area to expand as well

second edit:

or maybe Im high as fuck - thought your grow was just rockwool cubes in a flood tray

when you say containers you mean rockwool cubes?

 

[doBpop]

Hey thanks again!

The roots are still slightly moist before the next flood so I don't think they are drying out.

Don’t quite understand the concept of the small pots and cubes?

Planning a physical support system as we speak.
Can anyone point to the simplest and easiest at this stage please?

Thanks again!
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[motherlode]

your growing in 6 x 6 cubes of rockwool?

you could put those cubes in a 6 in sqaure pot with some rock on top

to hold your girls up:

since you need to do this after the fact best thing for support would be to make a frame (either out of 1x2 or pvc) the size of your canopy, get white ag trellis (plastic netting) and stretch that across the frame

put some hooks in the ceiling, hang some chain from the hooks so its at least a few inches lower then the height of your shortest plants

put eye hooks on the corners of your frame and get some s hooks to hang the frame from the chain just above the canopy, then slowly work your way down one corner at a time pulling your branches through the netting until all the plants main barnches are supported

 

[doBpop]

No wool - they're 6"x6" square plastic containers filled with hydroton.

Can't get to ceiling really to hang anything.

Thinking of a frame from the tray up out of light pvc with agro net, etc - sort of like a box frame.

Thanks!
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[doBpop]

Thanks to everyone for the interest and help.

I forgot all about this thread back then with so much going on and forgot to post them!

Here's some pics of what happens when you don't follow through with your thoughts and forget about shit. This took place on 12/04/2010 JFTR so future peeps will know what it looked like anyway.

That was a HUGE bunch of fun trying to get them back up by myself LOL! Then the lights went off about half way through aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!

Enjoy!

As always any help is appreciated and welcomed and thanks in advance!

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[mittenmedgrow]

Put your containers where u want them and fill the rest 4-5in deep with hydroton. Ive never grown plants that big in those small containers. Used this method for sog.

 

[Mr. Greenthum]

How long have they been in flower? I go to my local grow store and i ask for this stuff called coco tech mat and its husk from a coconut. I also have and ebb and flow 3x3 how high does ur water get in the table?? mine gets just enough so the bottom of the 6inx6in rock wool cubes get touched by water. i use only rock wool no pots around it just the plastic it comes in. then the coco tech mat is bout and inch thick but u can rip it and turn it into a half inch thick coco tech mat.I dont put anything else besides theses two things in my table because i do not allow nats to live my grow room.
I put a cover over the top of my table that's black so its dark where the roots are. Do u have ur water levels fill just the cracks in ur table to where the water barley goes over all the ridges in the bottom. The reason why I ask is because If u r flooding ur plants with water then ur plants roots dont have to grow for feeding and ur plant wont grow and be strong (The roots still might look good) versus if u filled ur table enough to cover the bottom with water the plants roots will grow out and down towards the nutria-ted water. I find this way works good.
Great looking plants:rollj:
Let me know how it goes if u choose this way

Roots sprouting out the bottom of the Coco tech mat (Super Skunk)

look at the roots they grip to the mat and pull themselves down towards the water.

My water level for the ebb and flow
Hope this helps