Please help a novice in distress

GNick55 · May 29, 2023

follow @Trash_2002
advice, he’ll follow along with your updates..

ArtfulCodger · May 29, 2023

IsanFarmer said:
I'm not naïve enough to think that that makes it conclusive but with the greatest respect your opinion with the light seems contrary to what I'm being told?

No worries at all. Good luck going forward.

Trash_2002 · May 29, 2023

ArtfulCodger said:
No worries at all. Good luck going forward.

Photone phone app calibrated to your light ppfd chart would take all light intensity guessing out of the equation.
truly recommended app.

ArtfulCodger · May 29, 2023

Trash_2002 said:
Photone phone app calibrated to your light ppfd chart would take all light intensity guessing out of the equation.
truly recommended app.

I have it and use it. Useful for matching levels between tents, and initial setups. For managing light levels mid-grow, I'll stick with seeing how the plants react. Maybe that's old school, but it works for me.

Trash_2002 · May 29, 2023

ArtfulCodger said:
I have it and use it. Useful for matching levels between tents, and initial setups. For managing light levels mid-grow, I'll stick with seeing how the plants react. Maybe that's old school, but it works for me.

yep exactly perfect for Repeatability, witch is what we need.

Harpua88 · May 29, 2023

Can I ask if they are autos or regular/photoperiod plants? They look healthy to me. Quite often though, plants will pause after being transplanted as their roots were disturbed, and need to now focus on their new home. After a number of days, it could be 4, it could be 8, it depends on how much the roots were disturbed, how much "shock" is involved......but, after a certain amount of time of very slow growth, they'll begin to take off. When you transplant, the soil should be thoroughly moist, no dry pockets.....but not beyond saturated/muddy. Roots don't like hitting dry pockets and bone dry soil often repells water. Water slowly, in stages. Give it time to soak in properly.

If they are autos......they really don't like being transplanted, so this could add to the issue.

I agree that you need to get watering on point, it means letting the pot dry, but not completely, then watering sufficiently, but not too much. 2 liters of water for a 5gallon pot seems like it could be a bit too much. You have a good soil mix, with enough nutrients to carry them through for many days after transplanting. You shouldn't need to jump so quickly into feeding. I agree with the "keeping it simple" rule. Lay down the framework.......good soil, good temp/humidity, sufficient water, good light at enough of a distance (pure Indicas don't need super strong light, especially early on). And then once you've given them the right environment......let them be. Let them grow and wait until they give you signs that they're ready for what's next. Don't look for something "wrong". Usually the first sign that they're ready for a light first feeding is slightly yellowing bottom leaves. And if they're growing nice tight nodes, each leaf set bigger than the one before......that's enough light. If they start stretching/searching.....turn up the light a little, but quite often, because the plants are now taller, and now the light intensity is stronger, raising the light distance is a good idea, at first, to allow them to get acclimated to it. Over time all of these things will become more obvious to you as you learn to read the signs of what they need. If those signs aren't there yet.....let them be.

Imzzaudae · May 29, 2023

Trash_2002 said:
May I ask why flush organics media and molasses? You gonna take a lot of the carbon out, essential for a organic media to flourish. IMHO bad advice.

Sure.
He is growing in a peat moss based potting mix. Yes, peat moss is organic material but it's a long way organic living soil.
This is is living soil - composted leaves, grass and plant matter. It's full of bugs, fungus, worms and microscopic microbial life. This is full of minerals, micro nutrients mined buy generations of plants then passed onto the next generation for thousands of generations.

Peat moss based potting mix or substrate as the op is using is dead. There is no microbial life like there is in the living soil pictured above.
Company's selling potting mixes get away with saying this is organic because it's organic material yes but it's dead. There are no minerals available in it. There is no fungus, No nematodes no worms or other microscopic biological life that all go together and create what I know to be the natural food web. The stuff that comes in a bag like that. You need to add everything your plant requires. Everything!

All the base minerals. It cannot produce nitrogen buy adding sugar water. There is no microbial life in it to eat the sugar then fart and produce nitrogen or anything else for the plants.

I see the same thing over and over again.
Calcium deficiency
Magnesium deficiency and many others all because guys that don't understand are growing in a peat moss based or other dead so called organic potting mix without adding a mineral solution so the micro-nutrients like iron, manganese and hundreds of others are available for the plants.

A couple of cups of pot ash / wood ash in a gallon of water makes all the difference in the world. But you still have to use N-P-K Man made fertilizers that bypass the natural food web and directly feed the plant with this kind of growing medium. These chemical based fertilizers are designed in laboratories and require careful measurement but still only do 1/2 the job. That's why we have to add Cal-Mag because there is no Calcium or Magnesium in Peat moss well there may be a little but not nearly enough.

If you want to grow in potting mix. Look up water only super soil. Or making organic super soil for growing cannabis.
There are hundreds of videos on youtube that will help you put into the pot what the plants need to grow.

If you want to grow organic Check this link out.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/growing-organic-buy-nate-growing-like-a-viking.147687/

Harpua88 · May 29, 2023

Imzzaudae said:
Sure.
He is growing in a peat moss based potting mix. Yes, peat moss is organic material but it's a long way organic living soil.
This is is living soil - composted leaves, grass and plant matter. It's full of bugs, fungus, worms and microscopic microbial life. This is full of minerals, micro nutrients mined buy generations of plants then passed onto the next generation for thousands of generations.
View attachment 1987288

Peat moss based potting mix or substrate as the op is using is dead. There is no microbial life like there is in the living soil pictured above.
Company's selling potting mixes get away with saying this is organic because it's organic material yes but it's dead. There are no minerals available in it. There is no fungus, No nematodes no worms or other microscopic biological life that all go together and create what I know to be the natural food web. The stuff that comes in a bag like that. You need to add everything your plant requires. Everything!

All the base minerals. It cannot produce nitrogen buy adding sugar water. There is no microbial life in it to eat the sugar then fart and produce nitrogen or anything else for the plants.

I see the same thing over and over again.
Calcium deficiency
Magnesium deficiency and many others all because guys that don't understand are growing in a peat moss based or other dead so called organic potting mix without adding a mineral solution so the micro-nutrients like iron, manganese and hundreds of others are available for the plants.

A couple of cups of pot ash / wood ash in a gallon of water makes all the difference in the world. But you still have to use N-P-K Man made fertilizers that bypass the natural food web and directly feed the plant with this kind of growing medium. These chemical based fertilizers are designed in laboratories and require careful measurement but still only do 1/2 the job. That's why we have to add Cal-Mag because there is no Calcium or Magnesium in Peat moss well there may be a little but not nearly enough.

If you want to grow in potting mix. Look up water only super soil. Or making organic super soil for growing cannabis.
There are hundreds of videos on youtube that will help you put into the pot what the plants need to grow.

If you want to grow organic Check this link out.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/growing-organic-buy-nate-growing-like-a-viking.147687/

This is good stuff. It would be good to see a comparative grow, all things being equal, with 1 being your basic, "regular" soil that most novice growers would buy or put together from a few fairly common ingredients.........the other this more "living soil", one that's built the way you're talking about, with all of the ingredients that make it happen. I'm going to assume that there's going to be a meaningful, obvious difference, otherwise, why do it?

The next question is......is there a relatively simple way to achieve this? Most growers are probably not going to buy a dozen or more ingredients, or spend time mixing up concoctions and getting very science-y.......

If you had to strip it down and tell someone the easiest way to achieve the goal of putting this kind of soil together, with the least amount of work, ingredients......granted it may not be as great as doing all of the work, but what would you advise? Let's say I've already got a few good bags of soil, perlite, peat moss.......what could I add into this mix that would pretty much get me there?

Trash_2002 · May 29, 2023

Imzzaudae said:
Sure.
He is growing in a peat moss based potting mix. Yes, peat moss is organic material but it's a long way organic living soil.
This is is living soil - composted leaves, grass and plant matter. It's full of bugs, fungus, worms and microscopic microbial life. This is full of minerals, micro nutrients mined buy generations of plants then passed onto the next generation for thousands of generations.
View attachment 1987288

Peat moss based potting mix or substrate as the op is using is dead. There is no microbial life like there is in the living soil pictured above.
Company's selling potting mixes get away with saying this is organic because it's organic material yes but it's dead. There are no minerals available in it. There is no fungus, No nematodes no worms or other microscopic biological life that all go together and create what I know to be the natural food web. The stuff that comes in a bag like that. You need to add everything your plant requires. Everything!

All the base minerals. It cannot produce nitrogen buy adding sugar water. There is no microbial life in it to eat the sugar then fart and produce nitrogen or anything else for the plants.

I see the same thing over and over again.
Calcium deficiency
Magnesium deficiency and many others all because guys that don't understand are growing in a peat moss based or other dead so called organic potting mix without adding a mineral solution so the micro-nutrients like iron, manganese and hundreds of others are available for the plants.

A couple of cups of pot ash / wood ash in a gallon of water makes all the difference in the world. But you still have to use N-P-K Man made fertilizers that bypass the natural food web and directly feed the plant with this kind of growing medium. These chemical based fertilizers are designed in laboratories and require careful measurement but still only do 1/2 the job. That's why we have to add Cal-Mag because there is no Calcium or Magnesium in Peat moss well there may be a little but not nearly enough.

If you want to grow in potting mix. Look up water only super soil. Or making organic super soil for growing cannabis.
There are hundreds of videos on youtube that will help you put into the pot what the plants need to grow.

If you want to grow organic Check this link out.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/growing-organic-buy-nate-growing-like-a-viking.147687/

Hum his substrate clearly says organic amended for first 8 weeks, he also added 25% ewc and 25% perlite, I mean for the size of plants he have should be more than ok.

I've grown organic buds with living soil that I composted for more than 10 years tho.
Never flushed it. No amount of flush will make it better or solve his plants problem.
@Imzzaudae
Not trying to bust anyone balls here, just trying to help the guy with what he have in hands, witch is plenty and adequate for bountiful harvests with a mixed organic/synthetics style, he's not really missing anything for his success here.

BillyBanchan · May 29, 2023

Trash_2002 said:
Photone phone app calibrated to your light ppfd chart would take all light intensity guessing out of the equation.
truly recommended app.

Huge plus one here. And it takes barely 5 mins to calibrate, set the level you want, and rest easy knowing that the DLI requirements are met

Imzzaudae · May 29, 2023

Trash_2002 said:
Hum his substrate clearly says organic amended for first 8 weeks, he also added 25% ewc and 25% perlite, I mean for the size of plants he have should be more than ok.

I've grown organic buds with living soil that I composted for more than 10 years tho.
Never flushed it. No amount of flush will make it better or solve his plants problem.
@Imzzaudae
Not trying to bust anyone balls here, just trying to help the guy with what he have in hands, witch is plenty and adequate for bountiful harvests with a mixed organic/synthetics style, he's not really missing anything for his success here.

It does not matter to me what you think. Leaving a bunch of sugar water to rot in the pot makes no sense ether.
Plant's don't eat sugar water. I read what it said on the bag and told the op what I figured he should do.
If he chooses not to that's up to him.

Trash_2002 · May 29, 2023

Imzzaudae said:
It does not matter to me what you think. Leaving a bunch of sugar water to rot in the pot makes no sense ether.
Plant's don't eat sugar water. I read what it said on the bag and told the op what I figured he should do.
If he chooses not to that's up to him.

Yep the use of molasses is mainly for carbon and carbohydrates source for microherd (it also has trace amounts of vitamins, magnesium and iron) , It's not plant food in that we agree.
At least we agree on something
Cheers have a great week sir.

Mothman · May 29, 2023

Trash_2002 said:
Let's be a little more scientific, install photone app and calibrate it to your light model ppfd chart. From there with the app calibrated your plants can be taking easily 300ppfd at canopy level for this stage. That's a better approach to light intensity in modern days, much easier too :-)

My Photone app is precalibrated (it claims). Would there be a need for calibrating it at all?? There is a calibration option on it.

Trash_2002 · May 29, 2023

Mothman said:
My Photone app is precalibrated (it claims). Would there be a need for calibrating it at all?? There is a calibration option on it.

The pre calibration for my phone is perfect for MH and HPS bulbs.
But for full spectrum led I had to manually calibrate to my light manufacturer provided ppfd chart than it's pretty accurate for led too.

Mothman · May 29, 2023

Trash_2002 said:
The pre calibration for my phone is perfect for MH and HPS bulbs.
But for full spectrum led I had to manually calibrate to my light manufacturer provided ppfd chart than it's pretty accurate for led too.

Thanks, makes sense to marry them up.

Oldchucky · May 29, 2023

In my opinion, that soil has enough nutrients in it to grow that plant for a month without adding anything else. But it’s probably too late now. I would concentrate on light and water.

IsanFarmer · May 30, 2023

Trash_2002 said:
Let's break it easier for you
Do a a good saturation of your media so roots can grow everywhere, wait till first two inches of soil is bone dry to water again:
Than:
Vegetative stage:
Feed 1x per week to 5-10% run off
1/4 strength fox farm grow
Wait for the first 2 inches of soil to dry again before next step:
Water with molasses (15ml molasses/5L water) or a liquid humic acid as recommend on bottle 5-10% runoff
Wait again for for the first 2 inches of soil to be dry and feed again with fox farm grow 1/4 recommended strength.

In the perfect environment between feed.and water the dry back period should be 3 or 4 days.

So every week will be a feed and a water+molasses cycle between "drybacks".

Flower:
Do the same but with the fox farm bloom and Bloom Booster combo. 1/4 to.maybe 1/2 strength, but you will need to see how plants are doing before raising.the fertilizer strength.

If you don't understand what I just said ask here I will try to explain better. Typing from my cellphone now lol

So the next time I water it should just be plain water to saturate all the roots, and then after that begin the feeding schedule you recommend? I'm leaning towards your advice because after yesterday's feed the plants look like they have darkened in colour and they're definitely getting bigger now. You're also the only person that's willing to elaborate on anything I don't understand which is appreciated. Maybe the plants have perked up because I turned the light down to 25% though, like ArtfulCodger advised? I asked Imzzaudare if you can mix organic nutrients with synthetic ones and he never got back to me but using your advice you obviously think this it's fine to do so?

Trash_2002 · May 30, 2023

IsanFarmer said:
So the next time I water it should just be plain water to saturate all the roots, and then after that begin the feeding schedule you recommend? I'm leaning towards your advice because after yesterday's feed the plants look like they have darkened in colour and they're definitely getting bigger now. You're also the only person that's willing to elaborate on anything I don't understand which is appreciated. Maybe the plants have perked up because I turned the light down to 25% though, like ArtfulCodger advised? I asked Imzzaudare if you can mix organic nutrients with synthetic ones and he never got back to me but using your advice you obviously think this it's fine to do so?

I've mixed organics with synthetic many times it works really good.
Yes follow the instructions and post progress we will follow along.
;-)

Imzzaudae · May 30, 2023

IsanFarmer said:
I've got the lights set up this way because both the manufacturer and many of the channels I follow on You Tube say this is what you should do with this light at this stage. I'm not naïve enough to think that that makes it conclusive but with the greatest respect your opinion with the light seems contrary to what I'm being told? I have seen videos where growers keep the light up much higher but most seem to have at a similar distance to me at 50% power? I have turned it down to 25% this evening though to see if it makes any difference so thanks for your advice.

I really appreciate your advice but you need to understand I am a novice and therefore don't understand some of what you've said. The water for my last two feeds was adjusted to 6.6 and 6.4 respectively. Are you trying to tell me that I can't mix the way that I have been feeding so far with the nutrients that I am yet to receive because one method (molasses and seaweed) is organic, and the Fox Farm nutrients are synthetic? I'm showing my ignorance here because I really had no idea that was true! As for nutrients and NPK ratios, do I have to look for a product that is already 5-15-5 or can I make this up myself? That may sound like a really dumb question but I am a newbie. I live in a country where it is difficult to get nutrients and I can't find any on the Internet here with that ration.

Also, I don't understand some of your directions?

Could you explain the above in more detail please because I don't understand this bit? I'm waiting for the Fox Farm trio to arrive but you're saying they're no good to me right now?

Sorry I did not get back to you. I work full time then, run my own business after hours, had to go work and missed some posts.
You asked about mixing organic and non organic. Yes you can. We do this all the time. It's not wether you can or not it's what you mix. I'm just heading out to work again. I will address the questions you asked me as best I can when I get in a little later today as it will take me an hour or more typing and I'm short on time now.
Ron

Richju2175 · May 30, 2023

Trash_2002 said:
Photone phone app calibrated to your light ppfd chart would take all light intensity guessing out of the equation.
truly recommended app.

Thank you just downloaded

Please help a novice in distress

Please help a novice in distress

GNick55

ArtfulCodger

Trash_2002

ArtfulCodger

Trash_2002

Harpua88

Imzzaudae

Harpua88

Trash_2002

BillyBanchan

Imzzaudae

Trash_2002

Mothman

Trash_2002

Mothman

Oldchucky

IsanFarmer

Trash_2002

Imzzaudae

Richju2175

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