Please help - electrical question

Durio_OG · Jun 28, 2023

Thank you all for your input. I really appreciate every one of you putting in the time to help me out.

I am in the planning stage and have not actually procured any equipment yet. I am still in the process of a 200 amp panel upgrade. Once that is done, I will ask the electrician to install a sub panel that will power the grow room.

The 1100 watt label on the lamp appears to be the "equivalent", not the actual wattage it will be pulling - thanks for clarifying that. These labels are somewhat misleading. I asked my buddy to send me a photo of the specs of the light they're using (I was planning to buy the same) and this is what I received. Does that looks like its only going to pull 425 watts on a 110v outlet?

The specs on some of these equipment are showing 220v. Can I use an adapter that plugs into a 110v outlet? Or do I need appropriate wiring to accommodate the 220v equipment?

Lets say if the lights are only pulling around 500 watts ea, would 2 500 watt led lamps cause a start current surge and cause a trip on a 20 amp breaker?

I am kind of in a dilemma. I have to be discreet with the licensed electrician on what the sub panel will be used for. I am not really sure how to ask him to install the wiring and the outlets. I am pretty sure I will need a dedicated 20 amp double pole breaker for the mini split AC. I need to figure out what else I need to power he 16 lights that should be around 500 watts as well as the remaining equipment. This room will have eight 4'x8' trays.

Thank you all again for your help and I appreciate your patience.

Durio_OG · Jun 28, 2023

HighVoltageSparky said:
Go big or go home?

That's right!! Pro gardeners don't have green fingers though. They got brown knees.

HighVoltageSparky · Jun 28, 2023

Durio_OG said:
That's right!! Pro gardeners don't have green fingers though. They got brown knees.

Bro, I can't find the specs on those lights. You have a website or something?
I generally don't trust Guangzhou lights incorporated's printed labels

Durio_OG · Jun 28, 2023

HighVoltageSparky said:
Bro, I can't find the specs on those lights. You have a website or something?
I generally don't trust Guangzhou lights incorporated's printed labels

I thought that sounded sketchy AF too. My friend told me they are only around 250 bucks.

Here is another one that I am considering. How would the wiring requirement work out if I were to get these lights?

Viparspectra KS5000Default Title

Full-spectrum 1000-watt HPS/MH replacement. Draws only 500 watts! Perfect for a 4x4 growing area at 18” - 28". PPF: 1200 μmol/s. PPE: 3.10 μmol/J. Buy NOW!

www.ledgrowlightsdepot.com

GuySmiley · Jun 28, 2023

20'x20' = 400 square feet
(8) 4' x 8' tables = 250 square feet

Assuming a 2' wide aisle separating your tables means you have a whopping 75 lineal feet of aisle available. How ya gonna make that work?

Assuming you'd have a walkway around the perimeter of your grow, you already have a 5' deficit on aisle needed with nothing left to separate your tables at all.

HighVoltageSparky · Jun 28, 2023

But let's say it is, 850 watts per light. Still pretty juice light : = )

850 / 110 = 7,73 Amps X 2lights = 15,5 Amps. Oh baby, right on the money. On a 20A breaker.

15,5 amps X Start I = 150 ish Amps

Assuming your breakers is a C characteristic, thats I4 value, 20 Amp rating fuse X 5-10

150 Amps max startcurrent < 100 - 200 Amps in I 4 Value, now this looks more like a proper equation.
Could be the lights have a lover startcurrent, and also, we'll be parallell connecting two and two lights, per 20 A fuse(Maybe.) This will also have an effect on startcurrent, lowering it slightly. I'm happy with this, I would probably even add anchilliary stuff to the breakers. Meaning fans, chiller, instruments etc.
I would of course also field test this configuration, run everything on full, see if breaker holds f. eks.
-
However, you need to have sufficiently "high" characteristic = What is the I4 value for the breaker you have/choose to have- is it Amp rating X 5 or 10? Higher, the better, in this instance.

Talk to your sparky about this.

The little napkin math we did, is worst case scenario, high startcurrent, but maybe some lights have a more smooth startup, soft start etc.

Can't see where you found that 485 wattage from though.

If they are ONLY tagged with 220V, you need to find a 220V outlet/socket. My understanding is, you over the pacific have the option to wire 220V. This is mainly done in the states for, washing machine, dishwasher, hairdryer (specific outlet)
If not, have to get your sparky to wire and install some glorious 220v sockets, or you could opt for a small transformer, 110V / 220V Transformer to supply, errr what exactly?

Alright, i need a smoke break : = )

We'll adress the other stuff afterwards, i have a tendency to get a little caught up in the finer details about, well, everything. You following along still? : = )

HighVoltageSparky · Jun 28, 2023

Those Viperspectra lights looks very nice.
I'm only rocking SF4000. If you can yield what i have been doing with my lights, those lights should be plenty.
I mean jesus, how much are you planning to smoke? : = )

HighVoltageSparky · Jun 28, 2023

500 watt lights now, 4 lights = 2 KW - 18,2 Amps. Maks A = 180 ish Amps.
See, now we're pushing it, if the breaker has 100-200 amps in I 4 value, you are playing close to inrush trip of breaker, here it would probably be simpler/safer to put three lights on a breaker. 3 Lights 1500 watt = 14A, now we have some leeway, here you can for sure add some simper smaller powwr draws. I4 is fine also.

Remeber, higher I4 value the better, btw, Why are you worried about the sparky? Why would he care what you use 220v sockets and extra subpanels.
Dude, when i was out to costumers, the last thing i cared about, was what they were going to use the new socket i gave them.

Perhaps, it's a legalgrey zone? That's cool, welcome to the grey bunch : = )

F.Dupp · Jun 28, 2023

Get a Titan 16 light controller. Install a 80-100 amp circuit that runs on 220v. Run circuit into controller. Buy a timer for the controller. Plug lights into controller.

16- 1100w LEDs is hard f'ing core. Good luck

Durio_OG · Jun 28, 2023

GuySmiley said:
20'x20' = 400 square feet
(8) 4' x 8' tables = 250 square feet

Assuming a 2' wide aisle separating your tables means you have a whopping 75 lineal feet of aisle available. How ya gonna make that work?

Assuming you'd have a walkway around the perimeter of your grow, you already have a 5' deficit on aisle needed with nothing left to separate your tables at all.

Here is a rough sketch of the tray layout. There wont be spacing on the entire perimeter but there will be around 2ft of spacing on the left and the right side. Approximately 1.5 ft in between each rows. The carbon filters will be hung on the ceiling and fans will be mounted on the walls. The sumps will be under each tray. It will be a little bit tight. If I need more spacing, I will swap out one of the 4x8 to a 4x4 in the corner.

If the plants needs trimming, I can take them out of the tray or shift trays around for a bit of extra spacing.

GuySmiley · Jun 28, 2023

Durio_OG said:
Here is a rough sketch of the tray layout. There wont be spacing on the entire perimeter but there will be around 2ft of spacing on the left and the right side. Approximately 1.5 ft in between each rows. The carbon filters will be hung on the ceiling and fans will be mounted on the walls. The sumps will be under each tray. It will be a little bit tight. If I need more spacing, I will swap out one of the 4x8 to a 4x4 in the corner.

If the plants needs trimming, I can take them out of the tray or shift trays around for a bit of extra spacing.

Those 18" wide aisles are going to nearly disappear when your plants fill out. You'll be rubbing and bumping your ladies every time you try to move around them. Good luck .

Durio_OG · Jun 28, 2023

HighVoltageSparky said:
500 watt lights now, 4 lights = 2 KW - 18,2 Amps. Maks A = 180 ish Amps.
See, now we're pushing it, if the breaker has 100-200 amps in I 4 value, you are playing close to inrush trip of breaker, here it would probably be simpler/safer to put three lights on a breaker. 3 Lights 1500 watt = 14A, now we have some leeway, here you can for sure add some simper smaller powwr draws. I4 is fine also.

Remeber, higher I4 value the better, btw, Why are you worried about the sparky? Why would he care what you use 220v sockets and extra subpanels.
Dude, when i was out to costumers, the last thing i cared about, was what they were going to use the new socket i gave them.

Perhaps, it's a legalgrey zone? That's cool, welcome to the grey bunch : = )

Understood! I really appreciate your help. You have my head spinning on this stuff. I''ll do some more research on the I4 value and have the electrician install the higher I4 value ratings.

Durio_OG · Jun 28, 2023

GuySmiley said:
Those 18" wide aisles are going to nearly disappear when your plants fill out. You'll be rubbing and bumping your ladies every time you try to move around them. Good luck .

Thank you. I am thinking of growing smaller indica or indica dominant strains using SOG method. Keeping one main cola.

Durio_OG · Jun 28, 2023

F.Dupp said:
Get a Titan 16 light controller. Install a 80-100 amp circuit that runs on 220v. Run circuit into controller. Buy a timer for the controller. Plug lights into controller.

16- 1100w LEDs is hard f'ing core. Good luck

Thank you. I value your input and may also consider this route. The 16 light controller is a bit expensive though.

Oldchucky · Jun 28, 2023

Keep in mind, the insurance company will probably laugh at you, if the fire marshal roots through the ashes, and determines of the cause to be, faulty wiring! In spite of everyone hating them, Code’s are there for a reason. Good luck! Interesting to see how things turn out.

HighVoltageSparky · Jun 28, 2023

Oldchucky said:
Keep in mind, the insurance company will probably laugh at you, if the fire marshal roots through the ashes, and determines of the cause to be, faulty wiring! In spite of everyone hating them, Code’s are there for a reason. Good luck! Interesting to see how things turn out.

He's got a sparky in mind, don't worry.

Durio, I just looked up that helio thingy, 600 dollars for a power breakout boks, and an analog clock hooked to a relay?

What the deuce.

I think i have stuff dusting under my bed that can do the same job, for probably 30 Euros or so

HighVoltageSparky · Jun 29, 2023

Durio_OG said:
Understood! I really appreciate your help. You have my head spinning on this stuff. I''ll do some more research on the I4 value and have the electrician install the higher I4 value ratings.

Don't get worked up
My word salads doesn't help, I'm sure.

I just though of another work-around buddy,
if you split the order the lights come one, meaning you energize one row of light fixtures first when the timer says so, second row will energize slightly delayed. Meaning 4 lights under a single MCB

You can this a couple of ways, install another clock to the secondairy light chain, so the clocks will always be slightly offset with one another.

or a timing relay instead of the two clocks, so when main timer engages it also starts the timing relay, counting down milliseconds before powering up the other set of lights. See my horrible sketch for ref. : = )
Timer is more prone to operator error though Many ways to cook this soup.

obviously, i have no clue what anything looks like over there, but at least this works. 4 MCB's, so you could have 4 zones. If you could even make that work.

Pretty hefty installation this mister

Last point..
Since it's a hefty startcurrent we're dealing with here, it's good form to put a proper relay in series with the lights.
These simple relays you can control with voltage levels down to 10V,dc and add extra contactor sets. the clock only controls the contactor, which then acts as the switch, making the circuit to the lamps live.

Wish we were on the same side as the pond buddy, I've got a ton of these little bullshit parts. I can never use them myself

Ponky · Jun 29, 2023

Multiple lights can be run more effectively using control boards. They power banks of 4 or 6 or 8 lights. Use higher voltage.
Grow lights controller. You want 2 with 8 sockets. And an electrical contractor to hook em up.

Ponky · Jun 29, 2023

2 of these. 2 breakers. 2 lengths of heavy gauge. And the rest is whatever. Cost like 700 installed is my guess.

electroguy · Jun 29, 2023

A 20 Amp circuit will handle 2400 watts max. Above that the circuit wiring will get warm enough to trip the breaker. Bear in mind that the circuit in question may be a branch circuit and therefore may be supporting additional loads. Be safe . I see quite a few electrical fires every year. Don't overload circuits please and don't install larger breakers. The breaker is sized to the house wiring. A larger breaker could fail to trip before the wire heats up to dangerous temperatures. Be safe and grow well

Please help - electrical question

Please help - electrical question

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Please help - electrical question

Please help - electrical question

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