shawnskush
- 2,013
- 263
go with the ogbiowar.com!
gliders420
- 108
- 43
heres what i found on icmag
imid is the main ingredient in the product given to me....
***************Chemicals*****************
When I saw the first creepy crawler I thought "it's so easy! I'll just kill them with pyrethrum and neem!" - Wrong. Do not go this route! Even neem extract (azadirachtin) does not seem to effectively control these pests, especially at in a cost-effective manner. Almost all reports of neem and pyrethrum use have stated some death but that they come back... and the plant is damaged by the oils etc... and the bugs are going strong again before the plant is. This is especially the case with neem oil itself, but in general - the higher concentration of azadirachtin or pyrethrins you use, the more killing you will do and the more you will hurt the plant (and there will inevitably be many more aphids hatching or that were not affected). That said - I clearly do not recommend any neem or pyrethrin-based approaches.
Notes on application:
-Applications should be done in sequence, according to your room/root temps. Always do 2-3 applications spaced apart by 3-6 days; this will ensure you get new eggs when they hatch. The higher your room temp the sooner you should re-apply.
*******Systemics (chemicals taken into plant tissue)********
-Imidacloprid is the main solution people have mentioned so far (most tried in online forums). It was mentioned in the thread started by Scay Beez, and it has worked well so many people have tried it and posted generally good results, perpetuating its usage. It is systemic, apparently being absorbed into the plant and staying around for a while - though the article "Some-Aphids-Go-Deep" linked below suggests that imid often does not work as well in pots if it gets washed out of the soil (if plants are heavily/over-watered after application). Imid also seems to kill to some extent on contact. Imid is probably not that harmful to the microherd, though I can't be certain.
-Like most systemics (Avid, FloraMite) the effectiveness of the systemic wears off long before the chemical is gone from the plant - this means that the Imid may help control aphids for perhaps a couple weeks but is around in the plant for at least a couple months - for this reason it is roundly suggested that imid only be used in the vegetative stage or around 60 days from harvest. In the agricultural industry there is around a 21-30 day PHI (pre-harvest interval) standard with imid for most fruits and vegetables - though it is worth noting that beets, for example (21 day PHI), are generally sprayed on the leaves rather than treated in the soil. It is likely that more of the substance is taken into the plant through the roots when applied to combat root aphids, that it is more widely distributed through the plant and that it is around for longer since it can remain in the medium.
-The main sources of imid people have mentioned are: Merit 75 (one of the strongest) - and Marathon - though both are a somewhat expensive up-front investment).
-Bayer "Tree & Shrub," Monterrey "Once a Year Insect Control" and Green Light "Tree and Shrub" a re all the easiest to acquire, cheapest sources of imid which are alternatives to the high-concentration versions available (Merit 75 etc). Each of these products are only 1.47% imid. Monterrey may be the cheapest of the lot. There are a few other Bayer products that also have Imid in them as well with other chemicals or with nutrients in them, but at lower concentrations of imid than the Tree and Shrub. Bayer "Complete Insect Killer" is imid + B-Cyfluthrin at half the concentration of imid. Bayer also has a "Fruit, Citrus and Vegetable Insect Control" product that is also imid at the lowest concentrations. - There is no reason to believe this version is less toxic or breaks down faster - it just has less imid in it for your $. The more imid you use and the later you use it the longer/more it will be around at harvest. Being far more dilute than the Merit/Marathon imid products, these imid products are less dangerous to handle/breathe and are available at hardware sores - look up the names in Google to see what the bottles look like. Bayer bottles are blue.
-People have said that Bayer Tree and Shrub (1.47% imid) is effective at 4-5 mL/gal - if you are already into bloom or are running a recirculating system I would recommend this dosage. bali_man has recommended people try upping the dosage 5X as they will see more dramatic results. If you only plan to apply it once or are at least 50 days from harvest, I would suggest this option.
-Imid is the same substance used in Advantage and Frontline for pets - it is based off nicotine and probably has similar toxicity. It smells like Advantage though (bllluugghhh), and is probably not great for you to get on your skin, as it is probably easily absorbed.
imid is the main ingredient in the product given to me....
***************Chemicals*****************
When I saw the first creepy crawler I thought "it's so easy! I'll just kill them with pyrethrum and neem!" - Wrong. Do not go this route! Even neem extract (azadirachtin) does not seem to effectively control these pests, especially at in a cost-effective manner. Almost all reports of neem and pyrethrum use have stated some death but that they come back... and the plant is damaged by the oils etc... and the bugs are going strong again before the plant is. This is especially the case with neem oil itself, but in general - the higher concentration of azadirachtin or pyrethrins you use, the more killing you will do and the more you will hurt the plant (and there will inevitably be many more aphids hatching or that were not affected). That said - I clearly do not recommend any neem or pyrethrin-based approaches.
Notes on application:
-Applications should be done in sequence, according to your room/root temps. Always do 2-3 applications spaced apart by 3-6 days; this will ensure you get new eggs when they hatch. The higher your room temp the sooner you should re-apply.
*******Systemics (chemicals taken into plant tissue)********
-Imidacloprid is the main solution people have mentioned so far (most tried in online forums). It was mentioned in the thread started by Scay Beez, and it has worked well so many people have tried it and posted generally good results, perpetuating its usage. It is systemic, apparently being absorbed into the plant and staying around for a while - though the article "Some-Aphids-Go-Deep" linked below suggests that imid often does not work as well in pots if it gets washed out of the soil (if plants are heavily/over-watered after application). Imid also seems to kill to some extent on contact. Imid is probably not that harmful to the microherd, though I can't be certain.
-Like most systemics (Avid, FloraMite) the effectiveness of the systemic wears off long before the chemical is gone from the plant - this means that the Imid may help control aphids for perhaps a couple weeks but is around in the plant for at least a couple months - for this reason it is roundly suggested that imid only be used in the vegetative stage or around 60 days from harvest. In the agricultural industry there is around a 21-30 day PHI (pre-harvest interval) standard with imid for most fruits and vegetables - though it is worth noting that beets, for example (21 day PHI), are generally sprayed on the leaves rather than treated in the soil. It is likely that more of the substance is taken into the plant through the roots when applied to combat root aphids, that it is more widely distributed through the plant and that it is around for longer since it can remain in the medium.
-The main sources of imid people have mentioned are: Merit 75 (one of the strongest) - and Marathon - though both are a somewhat expensive up-front investment).
-Bayer "Tree & Shrub," Monterrey "Once a Year Insect Control" and Green Light "Tree and Shrub" a re all the easiest to acquire, cheapest sources of imid which are alternatives to the high-concentration versions available (Merit 75 etc). Each of these products are only 1.47% imid. Monterrey may be the cheapest of the lot. There are a few other Bayer products that also have Imid in them as well with other chemicals or with nutrients in them, but at lower concentrations of imid than the Tree and Shrub. Bayer "Complete Insect Killer" is imid + B-Cyfluthrin at half the concentration of imid. Bayer also has a "Fruit, Citrus and Vegetable Insect Control" product that is also imid at the lowest concentrations. - There is no reason to believe this version is less toxic or breaks down faster - it just has less imid in it for your $. The more imid you use and the later you use it the longer/more it will be around at harvest. Being far more dilute than the Merit/Marathon imid products, these imid products are less dangerous to handle/breathe and are available at hardware sores - look up the names in Google to see what the bottles look like. Bayer bottles are blue.
-People have said that Bayer Tree and Shrub (1.47% imid) is effective at 4-5 mL/gal - if you are already into bloom or are running a recirculating system I would recommend this dosage. bali_man has recommended people try upping the dosage 5X as they will see more dramatic results. If you only plan to apply it once or are at least 50 days from harvest, I would suggest this option.
-Imid is the same substance used in Advantage and Frontline for pets - it is based off nicotine and probably has similar toxicity. It smells like Advantage though (bllluugghhh), and is probably not great for you to get on your skin, as it is probably easily absorbed.
salmonslammer
- 178
- 43
the exhaust pipe looking things on there tail end is the sign that it is a root aphid i am sorry to say but if your in veg your in luck use bayer tree and shrub that has -Imidacloprid in it sooo dont put into flower for at least 45 to 50 days after treating if in flower use og bio war it keeps them at bay till harvest make sure you do a through cleaning in between rounds or this nasty pest will keep being around just my 2 cents:D another option if you can find it in a small bottle is another bayer product that is approved for veggies nuts fruits ect that is called MOVENTO kills all mites including broad mite and phyloxia which is root aphid it is relatively new so keep looking good luck! also movento kills by a different action and is much safer to use then other options. heres a link for ya
Last edited:
Chronic Monster
- 1,146
- 113
movento looks pretty slick, thanks for the name
gliders420
- 108
- 43
Yeah i used the dominion wi h has imid. I think ive heard of movento but im not sure. Ill check it out.
The imid kills them dead tho? After some treatments i shouldndng have to worry about it? And ive read on the forums that it isnt gone from the plant for 6 mths to a year outdoors... Is 45-60 days long enough?
I killed my flowers. Only have some clones im momming out and some moms
The imid kills them dead tho? After some treatments i shouldndng have to worry about it? And ive read on the forums that it isnt gone from the plant for 6 mths to a year outdoors... Is 45-60 days long enough?
I killed my flowers. Only have some clones im momming out and some moms
green punk
- 957
- 143
ExciteR and Evergreen each have 6% concentration of pyretherins. These will actually kill RA. I have used at 2ml per gallon (thanks mmasonite) in hydro ( 4x8 flood tables hydroton 120 gallon res) and in traditional container soil and coco grows. Dunk entire pot til no more bubbles come out. It kills them. sets your plants back a week or so. But certainly kills them root aphids with out using imid which renders unusable finished product IMHO.
good luck
good luck
gliders420
- 108
- 43
Just one treatment? Im assuming multiples over a week?
What if imid is used on moms? and clones arent taken for one to to months, with a one to two month veg on those clones?
Is it still unusable?
Im thinking that since its a clone its tiny, and than after its vegged and flowered its exponentially bigger, with the imid being reduced to nothing or hopefully metabolized (or whatever) out of the plant?
I have no idea tho please school me if any one can....
green punk
- 957
- 143
One treatment. Its hard on the ones in dirt/sunshie etc... the oils mess with the roots. But that's what the pests are hammering. You can use the above metentined on flowering plants. In my opinion its way safer to use in grow area and it is effective. You just need access. the imid is available in most hardware stores, the others, organic garden supply out fits.
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