Please Help - Leaves Drooping and Slow Growth

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DjEclipse

DjEclipse

52
8
Hello all,

This is my firs grow and it's not going very well so far. I have feminized Bubba Kush seeds that germinated right away and sprouted out of the soil the day after I planted them. After that it's been down hill. See pics below.

Below is my set up, I am using a 3 x 3 tent in the basement which is very dry 35% humidity normally. I had to add a electric oil heater to get the temp's up to 71 deg F. I have a humidifier which is on 24/ 7 (unless I don't get to it in time to fill it up) but still humidity is only increased to 40-45%.

My exhaust fan 6" is on lowest setting the fan controller can go, but even on low it seems to suck all the humidity out of the tent too fast. If I turn off the fan it will climb to 50% fast, but then I am not getting the air exchange.

I am not sure if the drooping/ slow growth is due to over watering, under watering or light too close or soil is too hot?

Water - is filtered through a Pro-Pur gravity water filter. It is supposed to remove chlorine and other toxic chemicals. It is not RO though so I don't know the PPM as I don't have a meter.
https://www.amazon.com/Propur-Countertop-Gravity-Filter-System/dp/B00B9RP7OC

Soil - Pro Mix Organic Vegetable and Herb Mix. https://www.promixgardening.com/en/product/detail/promix-premium-organic-vegetable-herb-mix

Pots - Seedlings are in a small pot that has openings at the bottom that is supposed air prune a good root system. It's called a root maker pot.
20200131_1308544a.jpg


Light - LED Apolo 10, 450W Claimed Draw (I don't have a way to measure) 337 - 364W


Fan - 6" with controller turned all the way down to lwoest setting.
Intake - passive, one 8" one 6"
Fan - 7.5" oscillating sitting on the ground for now.
Humidifier - on always
Heater - Oil electric heater keeping temps from 70 - 73deg f

I initially thought I was over watering but then thought I may be under watering as the soil will dry out fast I assume due to the low humidity?

I started weighing the pots before and after water as follows. I filled one pot with just soil out of the bag and it weighted 183g. The pots with the plants in them I would wait until they were dry and weighted 150g, then watered with 150g of water to a watered weight of 260g. Wait until they are down to 150g and water again,.

Control pot:
Filled with soil out of the bag 183g

Pot 1:
Watered 263g - Dry 151g

Pot 2:
Watered 265g - Dry 156g

I developed this method to make sure the soil was actually dry before watering.

Light - manufacturer says 30 inches from plants for first 7 days
Day 7 - stretch 24"
Stretch16-18" from top of plants
Flowering 12-16" from top of plants.

I was following this but the thought maybe the light is too much for them and that is the reason for slow growth and curling leaves? I then raised the light to 30" and now it is at 35".

Lux Meter (phone app) is showing 23,000 at the top of the plants even at the 35" distance. Is this too much light? Is the phone app on my S7 accurate?

Below are the pics of the plants and the set up.

Please let me know your thought's on what is causing them to droop and grow slow?
20200131_130737.jpg

20200131_130759.jpg


20200131_130801.jpg

20200131_130832.jpg


20200131_130834.jpg

20200131_130911.jpg


Set Up:
20200131_131046.jpg


20200131_131058.jpg


Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
oldskol4evr

oldskol4evr

12,201
438
down size your filter fan combo while you veg,in veg temps up to 85 and humidity the same is a good thing,so turn the exhaust off be what id do,unless smell is a issue and i dont see that as a problem since your filter isnt hooked up.that oil heater is too close to plants and i would only run it lights off,what is your plan for getting them plants out of the pot you have them in ,ive never seen anything like that,and see a big problem getting out for a transplant.
your soil is fine but loaded with nutes for 3 months,so id suggest taking it easy when you do think you need to feed,far as the dry thing,pro mix is peat moss,let me state this difrently,i dont let pro mix dry or coco,with both there should be a exchange of air and nutes daily IN MY OPINION,be surprised with the arguments hahahah back on track,but your weighing your pots,that cool ,are you adding cal mag with your water ,i see you have a system to take out minerals those have to be replaced so when you water check your ppm it should be 100 to 25o ppm at the seedling stage you are at,if your drainage is correct and you have adequit air flow you should water daily in pro mix and coco,it need the exchange of airto your roots,again this is my opinion,the drainage should have your media moist but not soaked if you dig,the heater for sure needs moved away from the plants,the plants need to be off the floor and on something they get cold,turn off exhaust and run your humy,maybe that enough to throw around in your head ,maybe use some of it ,good luck mate
 
Jelimafish

Jelimafish

91
53
I am not sure about the slow growth/droopiness but I do struggle with humidity issues especially in the winter when the fire place is going. When I am in veg I have been turning off my exhaust fan and then I put a small clip-on fan in one of the side holes on the tent. This seems to allow for good air exchange but not so much that it pulls all of the humidity out.
 
Beachwalker

Beachwalker

7,039
313
Hello all,

This is my firs grow and it's not going very well so far. I have feminized Bubba Kush seeds that germinated right away and sprouted out of the soil the day after I planted them. After that it's been down hill. See pics below.

Below is my set up, I am using a 3 x 3 tent in the basement which is very dry 35% humidity normally. I had to add a electric oil heater to get the temp's up to 71 deg F. I have a humidifier which is on 24/ 7 (unless I don't get to it in time to fill it up) but still humidity is only increased to 40-45%.

My exhaust fan 6" is on lowest setting the fan controller can go, but even on low it seems to suck all the humidity out of the tent too fast. If I turn off the fan it will climb to 50% fast, but then I am not getting the air exchange.

I am not sure if the drooping/ slow growth is due to over watering, under watering or light too close or soil is too hot?

Water - is filtered through a Pro-Pur gravity water filter. It is supposed to remove chlorine and other toxic chemicals. It is not RO though so I don't know the PPM as I don't have a meter.
https://www.amazon.com/Propur-Countertop-Gravity-Filter-System/dp/B00B9RP7OC

Soil - Pro Mix Organic Vegetable and Herb Mix. https://www.promixgardening.com/en/product/detail/promix-premium-organic-vegetable-herb-mix

Pots - Seedlings are in a small pot that has openings at the bottom that is supposed air prune a good root system. It's called a root maker pot.
View attachment 936207

Light - LED Apolo 10, 450W Claimed Draw (I don't have a way to measure) 337 - 364W


Fan - 6" with controller turned all the way down to lwoest setting.
Intake - passive, one 8" one 6"
Fan - 7.5" oscillating sitting on the ground for now.
Humidifier - on always
Heater - Oil electric heater keeping temps from 70 - 73deg f

I initially thought I was over watering but then thought I may be under watering as the soil will dry out fast I assume due to the low humidity?

I started weighing the pots before and after water as follows. I filled one pot with just soil out of the bag and it weighted 183g. The pots with the plants in them I would wait until they were dry and weighted 150g, then watered with 150g of water to a watered weight of 260g. Wait until they are down to 150g and water again,.

Control pot:
Filled with soil out of the bag 183g

Pot 1:
Watered 263g - Dry 151g

Pot 2:
Watered 265g - Dry 156g

I developed this method to make sure the soil was actually dry before watering.

Light - manufacturer says 30 inches from plants for first 7 days
Day 7 - stretch 24"
Stretch16-18" from top of plants
Flowering 12-16" from top of plants.

I was following this but the thought maybe the light is too much for them and that is the reason for slow growth and curling leaves? I then raised the light to 30" and now it is at 35".

Lux Meter (phone app) is showing 23,000 at the top of the plants even at the 35" distance. Is this too much light? Is the phone app on my S7 accurate?

Below are the pics of the plants and the set up.

Please let me know your thought's on what is causing them to droop and grow slow?
View attachment 936208
View attachment 936209

View attachment 936210
View attachment 936212

View attachment 936213
View attachment 936214

Set Up:
View attachment 936215

View attachment 936216

Any help is greatly appreciated.
You list the weight of your water but you don't mention the pH? And you don't have a PPM meter which you need; I'd recommend you get a pH and PPM meter asap & go from there
 
dire wolf

dire wolf

4,694
263
I recognize the fan , is it an elicent brand ?
The grey filter inline fan on top.....

Aim that black fan on the left somewhere else, bad habit , in my opinion to direct air on top of young plants...

The whole temp managment thing you got going , heat , hum , etc could be a little rough, might need a different tactic...
 
Last edited:
DjEclipse

DjEclipse

52
8
Thank you for all the replies. They are much appreciated.

I recognize the fan , is it an elicent brand ?
The grey filter inline fan on top.....

Aim that black fan on the left somewhere else, bad habit , in my opinion to direct air on top of young plants...

The whole temp management thing you got going , heat , hum , etc could be a little rough, might need a different tactic...

@dire wolf

The fan is a Fusion Breath 6" inline fan. It is 460cfm but looking at the chart with 120pa static pressure it can push 600cfm. I have it at a straight line out the fan so static pressure is pretty much nothing.

I figured I would go 6" so I would be able to control humidity when the plants grow larger and if I decided to grow 4 in the tent. I thought I could dial it down with the speed controller but didn't think I would have the issue with keeping humidity in the tent.

This is the exhaust fan
https://www.growlights.ca/6-inch-inline-fan.html

Fan speed controller


I thought you were supposed to have air blowing on the plants even at seedling stage so the stems get stronger? I can move the fan so it is facing elsewhere.

I put in the electric oil heater as I assumed it would be less dry than a ceramic forced air heater. Should I switch to that? I have no other way of getting heat into the tent. without the temp is 64 deg F.

The fan on the left is not turned on as it is garbage, hardly pushes any air. The one on the bottom right is oscillating and blowing air on the plants. Is this one ok to have or should I have no air blowing on them at this time?
 
DjEclipse

DjEclipse

52
8
down size your filter fan combo while you veg,in veg temps up to 85 and humidity the same is a good thing,so turn the exhaust off be what id do,unless smell is a issue and i dont see that as a problem since your filter isnt hooked up.that oil heater is too close to plants and i would only run it lights off,what is your plan for getting them plants out of the pot you have them in ,ive never seen anything like that,and see a big problem getting out for a transplant.
your soil is fine but loaded with nutes for 3 months,so id suggest taking it easy when you do think you need to feed,far as the dry thing,pro mix is peat moss,let me state this difrently,i dont let pro mix dry or coco,with both there should be a exchange of air and nutes daily IN MY OPINION,be surprised with the arguments hahahah back on track,but your weighing your pots,that cool ,are you adding cal mag with your water ,i see you have a system to take out minerals those have to be replaced so when you water check your ppm it should be 100 to 25o ppm at the seedling stage you are at,if your drainage is correct and you have adequit air flow you should water daily in pro mix and coco,it need the exchange of airto your roots,again this is my opinion,the drainage should have your media moist but not soaked if you dig,the heater for sure needs moved away from the plants,the plants need to be off the floor and on something they get cold,turn off exhaust and run your humy,maybe that enough to throw around in your head ,maybe use some of it ,good luck mate

Thank you for the reply.

Since I don't have a smaller exhaust fan should I turn it off? I was under the assumption I need air exchanged in the tent for the plants to grow? There is no smell, this is why I disconnected the carbon filter for now.

The oil heater is necessary or the temp will be 63-64 deg F. I need it in there. I can switch to a forced air ceramic heater, should I do that and not aim it at the plants? I could try and move the plants as far left as possible farther away from the heater.

I have seen videos of the plants coming out of the pot no problem. I guess I will find out when I hopefully make it that far.

Right now I am not feeding anything to the plants. Only filtered water. I had the water tested and the water out of the tap and filter is roughly 150ppm. The filter takes out chlorine and other crap they put in the water, but leaves in the minerals.

I don't have a ppm tester or PH meter, can you recommend a good one without breaking the bank? I read you have to have the PH meter in a solution all the time? The

I am not adding anything to the water when watering. I was thinking about liquid seaweed but don't have it yet.

I want to grow in organic. One will be in the EarthBox Probiotic soil and the other one in an organic soil mix I have to make.

The plants are raised off the ground probably 7" from the top of the pots tot he floor and roughly 2" from the bottom of the pots to the floor. Inside the tent they are sitting on 2.5" rigid insulation so the floor itself is not cold.

I am going down now to turn off the exhaust fan over night and see how things go.

Thanks again.
 
DjEclipse

DjEclipse

52
8
I am not sure about the slow growth/droopiness but I do struggle with humidity issues especially in the winter when the fire place is going. When I am in veg I have been turning off my exhaust fan and then I put a small clip-on fan in one of the side holes on the tent. This seems to allow for good air exchange but not so much that it pulls all of the humidity out.


Thanks for the reply.

I think I will turn off the large exhaust fan and move the crappy clip fan so it is blowing through the duct work, through the fan and out the top. It will move a small amount of air and I bet keep humidity in there easier.
 
DjEclipse

DjEclipse

52
8
You list the weight of your water but you don't mention the pH? And you don't have a PPM meter which you need; I'd recommend you get a pH and PPM meter asap & go from there

I don't have a PH meter or a PPM meter. Can you recommend on that I can get that won;t break the bank.

Are you saying I need a liquid PH meter or soil PH meter?
 
dire wolf

dire wolf

4,694
263
Hey dj, yea i know its tough trying to control temps in a small space , i been struggling with that in one of my locations for years ,
The air flow and wind from the fans wont be a problem later on , but right now i think its part of the problem

Dont change the heater
I think in a week or two you will be anble to manage...

Yes air from a small fan will strengthen the plant , but not at the seedling stage , its way too young to get that type of treatment...

Sure , use the fan but aim it on the wall or in a direction where its not blowing on the small plant.....

As far as the heater goes , thats going to be a bit challenging, deff better than cold temps , but you are going to have to fine tune it....

I just bought a ppm meter on ebay , it was like 12 bucks , seems to be working fine
The item is a unido pura test , ill send you the seller info in a min..
Seller igadgetshop
Item 182011465225
 
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THCMonster

THCMonster

380
93
i work at a Hydroponic Store and would like to throw my 2 cents in if you'll let me!

First thought is that 35% humidity is way to low for veg, you should be shooting for 40-45%... If you have really good air flow then shoot for 50% really! I would stop running the dehumidifier for Veg! Your leaves need the moisture! But make sure u have really good air flow... Run a couple wall fans (not just your inline exhaust).

The drooping I could probably say is two possible reasons
1) the humidity is too low and your dehumidifier is literally pulling out the moisture to your leaves, if your leaves fell kind of rough to the touch then this is probably the issuw
2) chances are your over watering or under watering, if they are not dry when they droop then you are over watering them but usually over watering causes leaves to curl inward (the opposite of an eagles claw)

Limit the amount of water you give your plants! I cant tell you how many customers of mine come in with problems and its because they are trying to water their plants like they are trees when they are really just tiny little plants!

Unless you are giving them liquid nutrients/fertilizer i wouldnt flood them with water when you water! Being in promix you want to give them just enough water to get through 2-3 days tops, 3 days still being pretty long in my opinion! You have an LED thats why you are having problems with heat. Cause they dont produce much heat they are harder to grow effectively in the winter time with!

Just try to bump up the temps to around 75-77 if you can.
DEFINITELY Bring up your humidity for Veg 35% is WAY to low.
And get more ambient air flow (wall fans) to dry your plants out quicker
And limit the amount of water you feed your plants, give them just enough to get them past 1-2 days. They will grow better and faster! Do a flush every 3rd or 4th day.

Hope this helps!
 
dire wolf

dire wolf

4,694
263
Hey thc monster, dj said he has a humidifer running , not a de humidifier

And he said his humidity is 40 to 45%
 
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DjEclipse

DjEclipse

52
8
Ok so I just reconfigured the tent and turned off the 6" exhaust fan.

I put the clip on fan blowing out the top left port. It is pretty weak, I am guessing it is only 15cfm or so. waste of $15.00 :(

I moved the heater to the back of the tent and the plants/ Light's more towards the front. It was 9" from the heater to the nearest plant. It is now 17" from the heater to the nearest plant. I hope this is enough.

I set humidity to 60%, and It should be able to achieve this easily now that the large exhaust fan is on.

The light's are 36" from the plants. They have stretched a little since I moved the light's up 2 days ago. I will see how things are tomorrow.

Should I turn off the oscillating fan on the bottom?

See pic below.
Reconfigure Feb 2nd .jpg
 
dire wolf

dire wolf

4,694
263
No prob 😊 probably just speed reading , i do the same ......
 
dire wolf

dire wolf

4,694
263
Is the exhaust fan on or off , you said both
First said on , then said off , no wonder your messing everyone up 😂😂😂

Yea leave the fan on just change direction off plants, or with little wind on seedlings....
 
THCMonster

THCMonster

380
93
I wouldnt personally turn off the osc fan, the more air flow the better. Becareful with 60% humidity! Its great for your plants but just make sure you have really good air flow other wise its a breeding ground for PM (powdery mildew)

Anytime you have high humidity you want high temps with it! I run co2 so its a little different but my Veg plants are at 60-70% humidity but the temps range around 82-85 degrees. They can easily withstand higher humidity with higher temps... But if the temps arent high enough you will be creating a (morning dew, like outside) inside your room.
 
THCMonster

THCMonster

380
93
For future seedlings i would HIGHLY recommend you grow them in a humidity dome to start... They will grow much better that way!

Just my opinion
 
DjEclipse

DjEclipse

52
8
i work at a Hydroponic Store and would like to throw my 2 cents in if you'll let me!

First thought is that 35% humidity is way to low for veg, you should be shooting for 40-45%... If you have really good air flow then shoot for 50% really! I would stop running the dehumidifier for Veg! Your leaves need the moisture! But make sure u have really good air flow... Run a couple wall fans (not just your inline exhaust).

The drooping I could probably say is two possible reasons
1) the humidity is too low and your dehumidifier is literally pulling out the moisture to your leaves, if your leaves fell kind of rough to the touch then this is probably the issuw
2) chances are your over watering or under watering, if they are not dry when they droop then you are over watering them but usually over watering causes leaves to curl inward (the opposite of an eagles claw)

Limit the amount of water you give your plants! I cant tell you how many customers of mine come in with problems and its because they are trying to water their plants like they are trees when they are really just tiny little plants!

Unless you are giving them liquid nutrients/fertilizer i wouldnt flood them with water when you water! Being in promix you want to give them just enough water to get through 2-3 days tops, 3 days still being pretty long in my opinion! You have an LED thats why you are having problems with heat. Cause they dont produce much heat they are harder to grow effectively in the winter time with!

Just try to bump up the temps to around 75-77 if you can.
DEFINITELY Bring up your humidity for Veg 35% is WAY to low.
And get more ambient air flow (wall fans) to dry your plants out quicker
And limit the amount of water you feed your plants, give them just enough to get them past 1-2 days. They will grow better and faster! Do a flush every 3rd or 4th day.

Hope this helps!

Hello THCMonster,

I am using a humidifier as the humidity of the basement is really low 35%. With the humidifier running pretty much non stop (unless I don't make it down in time to refill) it brings the humidity up to 40ish %.

Right now I am watering every other day going by the weight of the pots. I think the soil is pretty dry when I am watering. They are roughly 260g after watering and that I believe is fully saturated as today I gave them 200g (instead of the usual 150g) and the weight of the pots were still 260g meaning the extra 40g I gave them just dripped out the bottom.

Maybe I am under watering them then? Should I not wait until they are 150g before watering, maybe 190 or 200g and then water? I hope with the extra humidity not as much will evaporate from the soil. I touched the leaves but I don't know what normal healthy leaves feel like to compare. The edges felt a little rough.

I currently have a 7.5" oscillating fan that moves the air pretty good. I just disconnected the 6" inline exhaust fan as it was preventing the humidity from accumulating.

I am not giving them any nutrients, just straight water. What would a flush be? Water more so more water runs out the bottom?

I will raise temp's to 75-77.

EDIT: I just went down after writing this and humidity is 50% and temp's jumped to 85deg F. I turned the heater down, but the raised humidity also raised the temps. this means with the higher humidity the less the heater will be turning on. The heater doesn't have a digital thermostat, just a dial.

Thank you,
 
THCMonster

THCMonster

380
93
I work at a Hydroponic store so i have seen every method possible to grow basically. I cant tell you how many of my customers come in with the same problems as you are describing right now! And im from Michigan, its cold as shit here! You just have to learn to work with what you have available, as well as you will benefit from all the trial and error later on! All the best growers have ran into these problems! And if they haven't then personally they aren't that good cause the moment they do run into problems they wont know what to do about it! You will work all the kinks out eventually and it will become 2nd nature for you!

Wish you the best of luck DJ
 
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