Please help my sad plant

  • Thread starter bigbagofbuds
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bigbagofbuds

bigbagofbuds

56
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One of my plants is looking sad and Im looking to learn why.

The plant is in 75% coco coir and 25% perlite.
Originally ammended with 10 tbsp of Gaia green 4-4-4.
Planted in March indoors, moved outdoors June 1st Southern Ontario.
Re-ammended with the following schedule.
May
3 tbsp 4-4-4 and 1 tbsp 2-8-4
Plant is green with no issues
June
2 tbsp 4-4-4 and 2 tbsp 2-8-4
Flowering started last June after moving the plant to a shadier spot.
July
1 tbsp 4-4-4 and 3 tbsp 2-8-4
Plant is flowering slowly likely because it shouldnt really be flowering, still lots of sunlight.
Plant starts to show signs of deficiency before feeding.
Plant starts developing burn on edges of lower leaves (assumed potassium deficiency)
Plant starts developing necrotic spots on lower leaves (assumed calcium deficiency)
August
1 tbsp 4-4-4 and 3 tbsp 2-8-4
Old growth stops burning and necrotic spots stop spreading.
Lowest leaves turn pale and die off.
August 15th
2 tbsp bat guano
Plant is yellowing between veins, necrotic spots are spreading, lowest leaves continue to turn pale and die off.

For flowering I feed the following with every watering per gallon of chlorinated tap water.
1 tsp GH calimagic 1-0-0
1 tsp GPN liquid w-8 (carbohydrates)
1 tsp GPN rezin (vitamin b1 and molybdenum)
4 tsp GPN massive bloom 1-2-3

Feeding 1 gallon per day in 2 doses

My feed water PH ranges between 6 and 7.
Latest PH reading of medium was 6.4 pre feed, 6.2 post feed, feed water was 6.4.

My assumption was underfeeding because things improved after a feeding, however now that flowering has continued (week 5ish) even after ammending the medium the symptoms have started to get worse again.

My 2nd thought is that it is nutrient lockout due to salt build up from the flowering nutrients in the feed water.
 
SPARECHANGE

SPARECHANGE

13,932
438
lemme get the ph for coco

betterz will follow

seemz right for sum

not for sure with coco

od and the doc say ur target weight is 5.8 😁

and I'll go to the bible cause i always mix up p and banana

 
Scolymia7

Scolymia7

138
43
The air pots can dry out pretty quick and thats a big plant for that pot with only 2 waterings at 1 gal a day IMO. I grow plants half that size in the same pot and they get 3/4 gallon a day which gives me about 10-15% run off.

5.8 ph is good for coco. I bounce between 5.8-6.0 on my nutrient solution with great results. Having a ppm meter would help your situation alot. That would give you more accurate feeding rates.

With out knowing ppm you could be over feeding, plant only takes up so much nutrients at a time and might be leaving a lot of salts behind causing very high ppm in coco/nuts loc. Which could cause your plant leaves to show deficiencies. Or your plant is using up all the nutrients and is starving. Ppm meter can tell you which one.

I'm not religious about making sure my run off is simular to the ppm I feed except During weeks 3-6 is, I focus the most on what they take up or dont. For example during those weeks I feed between 950 and 1150 ppm and run off never goes above 1300 and do ph'd water feed every 4rth day. Some might say is high for coco but when I tried 650-700 it worked in veg but they were not happy in flower. Kind of have to play and learn what makes your plants happy.

As for chlorinated water not sure if that would hurt the plant. Guess it depends on amount in local water. When I did dwc I would add bleach to rez fto sterilize system, grew amazing buds with huge/healthy root balls. But I knew how much ppm of bleach was put in so it was controlled. After switching to coco I moved to beneficial bacteria.

Hope that helps, happy growing!!!!
 
bigbagofbuds

bigbagofbuds

56
18
lemme get the ph for coco

betterz will follow

seemz right for sum

not for sure with coco

od and the doc say ur target weight is 5.8 😁

and I'll go to the bible cause i always mix up p and banana

The air pots can dry out pretty quick and thats a big plant for that pot with only 2 waterings at 1 gal a day IMO. I grow plants half that size in the same pot and they get 3/4 gallon a day which gives me about 10-15% run off.

5.8 ph is good for coco. I bounce between 5.8-6.0 on my nutrient solution with great results. Having a ppm meter would help your situation alot. That would give you more accurate feeding rates.

With out knowing ppm you could be over feeding, plant only takes up so much nutrients at a time and might be leaving a lot of salts behind causing very high ppm in coco/nuts loc. Which could cause your plant leaves to show deficiencies. Or your plant is using up all the nutrients and is starving. Ppm meter can tell you which one.

I'm not religious about making sure my run off is simular to the ppm I feed except During weeks 3-6 is, I focus the most on what they take up or dont. For example during those weeks I feed between 950 and 1150 ppm and run off never goes above 1300 and do ph'd water feed every 4rth day. Some might say is high for coco but when I tried 650-700 it worked in veg but they were not happy in flower. Kind of have to play and learn what makes your plants happy.

As for chlorinated water not sure if that would hurt the plant. Guess it depends on amount in local water. When I did dwc I would add bleach to rez fto sterilize system, grew amazing buds with huge/healthy root balls. But I knew how much ppm of bleach was put in so it was controlled. After switching to coco I moved to beneficial bacteria.

Hope that helps, happy growing!!!!

Thank you for the information and help!

My goal is to keep the PH a bit higher (6.5 - 6.8) for the microbes digesting the dry amendments, I also try not to water to runoff for the same reason.

The pots are 5 gallon air pots. My gut says this is underfeeding because the symptoms started just after flowering really got going, and I cut the dry amendments (suggested 5 tbsp total for my pot size) down to 4 tbsp because I have also been feeding liquid based fertilizers.

I will get feed water PH and PPM later today. I will see if I can catch some runoff and read the PPM.
 
Last edited:
Scolymia7

Scolymia7

138
43
I've read a few growers who don't feed till run off but they pry have a grasp on their plants exact needs and a balance on what they are putting in.

If your goal is to maintain microbial life you definitely want to increase watering because in the picture the coco looks bone dry and it needs to stay moist. When it dries all the salts do as well.

6.5 seems high for coco. I'm not an expert so I can't say its wrong but I would advise 5.8-6.0.

To me you are trying to treat the coco too much like soil.

If you don't want to feed till run off, I would advise doing so once a week to check where the ppm is at and balance you feeding regimn off that number. I would be concerned with anything over 1500.

When those salts dry/build up and you remoisten them it can effect the ph and ppm make it harder for your plants to absorb nutrients correctly(deficiencies).

When I first started coco, I wasn't on top of checking run off. When I finally did it(plants were looking sad) and run off ppm was 2500 lol. It took a week of only phd water to bring the run off ppm to 900.

I do grow indoors so there is pry some differences in our plants needs.

I have the 2 gal air pot ms, your plant just makes your 5 gal look small haha. But I still feed 3/4 a gallon to get some run off/keep coco moist. 1 gal in a 5 gallon pot seems like it would barely re moisten all the coco and give the plant enough water to get her drink on. Between weeks 4-7 I've increased water to about a gallon because they will drink all of it in a night. I'm about to set up an irrigation system this week so I can give them 4 or 5 small feeding over lights being on to avoid coco getting bone dry.
 
bigbagofbuds

bigbagofbuds

56
18
It rained in the afternoon so I was able to collect a bit of run off from the rain water, it probably got a touch diluted though so I will get some more numbers tomorrow.

This mornings feed was 540 PPM (440 PPM nutes, 100 PPM tap water), PH was 6.5

This afternoons run off from the rain water was 1010 PPM and PH was 6.7

The PH seems oddly high from the run off, I also assume with dilution that the run off PPM might be in or near the danger zone which has me thinking its likely overfeeding. Im not too worried about PH because I havent had any issues with it on my other plants.

My plan is to water with PHed water for 5 to 7 days then slowly reintroduce the fertilizers for a week or two until it's time to remove nutrients before harvest.

Thank you for the help!
 
SPARECHANGE

SPARECHANGE

13,932
438
my battery died, yesterday, and i prolly had an episode, anyway, but lmk if u want me to verify symptoms with book pix
of similar issues

between u two n the rest of the posts/erz

i suspect u got it figured

ive never not ever

heard of stoppin prior to 20% from those who'd done their due

did u say u just started not measuring from runoff, recently

n this is the first time u really had issues

not sure for sure

whether u said it

if u did:

hint hint...

and we all forget stuff from time to time

might revisit the coco chart n verify ur not losin anything specific

in coco at 6.5ish

loved the suggestions n ur idea of runnin stuffs down a bit

lemme revisit the pic

cause if I'm thinkin of the same postpic

it was more likely deficient than fried

n runnin down

might exacerbate

ummmm

what about a flush nut reset vs wait n see

over time

yeah i looked again

I'll get the bible

a flush reset

fixes ph sooner than later

I'm sayin lockout

not

lackout

judges?

what's ur take on this?

@Scolymia7
 
SPARECHANGE

SPARECHANGE

13,932
438
imma try n get this right

without freakin out so bear with n please excuse

if i get weird


looks like it's both

new n old growth

possibly multiple issues goin on



unbelievable

duh

I'm learning too

pfft

ty for this opportunity

i kept thinkin n toxic

n my own stuff as a consequence of forcin

unbelieveable!

how have i mist thisevery friggin time!

calmag

i always go easy on cmag n tend to wait for liming

whilst btchn about n toxicity

incessantly!

argh argh!!!

i doubt it's all calcium

I'm just postin anything with rust atm

does sawtooth

semimobile

iron

resembles

n double check ph range uptake for these issues

mobility: moves slowly through plant

calibrate ur meterz lately


mn

not mobile

if it's that

it's deficiency

I'll show molyB

but i don't suspect it

phosphorus

mobile

possibly

k

mobile

possibly

all deficiencies imho

run it by the fellerz

I'd flush reset

the time for wait n c has passed

didn't catch current ppm

anyway

hopefully that lessenz ur head scratchn

one way r another

good luck

good luck
 
bigbagofbuds

bigbagofbuds

56
18
Thank you @SPARECHANGE for the helpful information!

The book photos help, it definitely looks like a combination of deficiencies, likely from nutrient lock out, there should be enough nutrients in there, the other plants don't seem to be having issues (2 auto flowers harvested, 1 photoperiod is starting flowering, and this sick plant is in heavy flower).

I am doing a flush with 2 gallons of PHed water today, already put through 1 gallon this morning, will put in a 2nd gallon this afternoon. Then I will apply microbes and continue to water normally with PHed water for a few more days in hopes of removing the salt build up, but allowing for the existing organic fertilizers to start breaking down again to feed the plant.

I am going to change my methods for the future and only apply 1/2 strength liquid nutrients (~250-300 PPM) every other day to discourage salt build up. I will also start monitoring the run off PPM and PH on a weekly basis to try and get ahead of this issue in the future.

The liquid nutrients I am applying are meant to supplement the organic base nutrients in the medium, I'm actually most interested in the natural PGRs and plant hormones (triacontanol, gibberellin, cytokinins, auxins) inside GPN massive, this stuff promotes very profuse flowering from my limited experience.
 
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