Patanjali said:

There is a difference between an ACT compost tea and nutrient teas. Seamaiden nailed it, EWC+moleasses+aeration=ACT. The more ingredients you add to an aerated tea, the more likely it is to go anaerobic, and the slower you will multiple your microbes.

I would recommend leaving the bird and bat poop out of your mixes. Then again, I wouldn't buy anything from Fox Farms either. Just my 2¢.

Peace!
P-

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I respect that. Are you. A veganic grower or just not a believer of ff hype? And if her recipe keeps my soil better without having to add chemical ferts im game. I only have so my ffof. I do plan on my own mix with promix base later.

burn4me said:

I respect that. Are you. A veganic grower or just not a believer of ff hype? And if her recipe keeps my soil better without having to add chemical ferts im game. I only have so my ffof. I do plan on my own mix with promix base later.

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Hi Burn! I'm not a veganic grower. There are many ways (and many interpretations) of growing organically - to each their own. I believe in the Soil Food Web, and feeding the soil not the plants type of gardening. Because of my beliefs, I will never use anything FF again. Keep in mind pro-mix does not have a hummus source. Imo a high quality hummus source is essential for growing organically.

P-

Cant it be added? Im not an organic person by any means just wanting to dabble a little. What your personal mix of amendments? I went back to see but haven't ran across it. Im really trying to just find a way for me to go further in my soil mix with a tea instead of the trio

Nothing fancy this year, just tons of natural compost with horse and chicken manure. This stuff is black and rich and cost me nothing but labor.

burn4me said:

I was just looking around for simple yet effective act. And wanted to know if i add seabird crap (high N right?) To tea if thats a good way to stay away from using ff trio on my ffof soil. Sorry if this is wrong spot for questions. Just seen your post thought id ask. Tia

Edited
And switch high N for high P in flowering?

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I would use that for a nutrient tea, as Patanjali discusses above, not an aerated compost tea, due to the microbes you're trying to culture. OR, add it near the end, with only a few scant hours brewing.

Cannafab14 said:

Technically even in un-aerated teas there is still some aerobic action taking place for several days. All fungi is aerobic. Some bacteria are totally aerobic, some bacteria are totally anaerobic, and some bacteria can act both aerobic or anerobic based on the soil or tea environment. Un-aerated teas can continue to keep alive some aerobic or aerobic/anaerobic microbes, for up to a week in a watery solution (stirring causes agitation, thus aerobic). After 10 days, the whole un-aerated tea will contain only anerobic microbes.

You can expect different microbial population levels in your tea based on weather, climate, temperature, seasons, etc. In the summertime you can expect your teas to brew faster and get to your optimal microbial levels faster than in cooler fall weather. Also tea odors, color, and foaminess on top of the tea, will vary based on temperatures too.

I go SIMPLE....and what works for me.

And molasses isn't needed....you can use corn syrup or brown sugar to it.

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YESS!!! Whoopeee! Someone like me! You don't have to stay married to molasses. I've used all kinds of sugars that I've been able to find, palm sugar, date sugar, cone sugar that you get at the Latino markets (panela/panocha, and yes, I know), malted barley extract (that gave certain others certain ideas ;) ).... the list is long and what I found was that all sugars can work well for this. Just be cognizant of the difference in actual sugar levels between a liquid like molasses and, say, dry brown sugar.

:D You made me happy when you said that.

Ok well thank you very much for that lesson everyone. I did think tea was tea. Im a little straightened now. But more intrigued also so ill have to read a couple good reads on the differences/benefits. Again thank you. Im off top dive into the massive collection of knowledge here. If yall can think of any off the top of your head shoot me a pm.

Burn, personally I would do some reading on organics before you start dabbling. I'm concerned trying to incorporate a few organic techniques may not have good results without more information. I think the first book that got me into the soil food web was Teaming with Microbes. I have this in PDF, but I think it is too big, and I don't know the rules on posting something like that.

I will agree other sugars can be used (I have not seen any research on the effects), but I do not agree with this:

Technically even in un-aerated teas there is still some aerobic action taking place for several days. All fungi is aerobic. Some bacteria are totally aerobic, some bacteria are totally anaerobic, and some bacteria can act both aerobic or anerobic based on the soil or tea environment. Un-aerated teas can continue to keep alive some aerobic or aerobic/anaerobic microbes, for up to a week in a watery solution (stirring causes agitation, thus aerobic). After 10 days, the whole un-aerated tea will contain only anerobic microbes.

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This is more like an FPE - Fermented Plant Extract. I follow Microbeman's recommendations for compost teas. Again, to each their own.

P-

Patanjali said:

Burn, personally I would do some reading on organics before you start dabbling. I'm concerned trying to incorporate a few organic techniques may not have good results without more information. I think the first book that got me into the soil food web was Teaming with Microbes. I have this in PDF, but I think it is too big, and I don't know the rules on posting something like that.

I will agree other sugars can be used (I have not seen any research on the effects), but I do not agree with this:



This is more like an FPE - Fermented Plant Extract. I follow Microbeman's recommendations for compost teas. Again, to each their own.

P-

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No doubt. I knew once yall told me there's a difference nit to jump in. Maybe it eas a stoner moment to just think it was that simple. I will research before diving in.

I'm going to keep this nice and say enjoy your tea.

For those are wishing to make a true compost tea I suggest doing a little more research. Microbeman, Elaine Ingrahm and others have spent a significant amount of time studying compost teas in detail. I read your article on GardenWeb. Incomplete comes to mind.

P-

Anyone know what are the best bubbles for compost tea.... I've heard most bubbles slice through and damage so much bacteria and fungus preventing full potential of process .... No books just conversation and brainstorming

caveman4.20 said:

Anyone know what are the best bubbles for compost tea.... I've heard most bubbles slice through and damage so much bacteria and fungus preventing full potential of process .... No books just conversation and brainstorming

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From Crobehead - many of you don't know him, but he does use DO meters and a microscope, and studies compost teas.

For the best DO2 you want a fine to medium bore bubble

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P-

kolah said:

Nothing fancy this year, just tons of natural compost with horse and chicken manure. This stuff is black and rich and cost me nothing but labor.

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put some minerals /rock dust in there and you"ll grow the biggest plants you ever have... compost is king....

burn4me said:

I only have so my ffof. I do plan on my own mix with promix base later.

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He's really telling you to dig deeper into the rabbit hole...See how far it goes.

First off. Take the label on FFOF or ProMix.
Then read it.

Then research all those components listed, do a little more digging and you won't be buying FFOF or ProMix or any of those things.
It has nothing to do with Vegan, ect... But everything to do with Organics and the differing methodologies and ideas.

Testing this mix out, if you see some glaring caution, please do tell.
But so far seems good.
Makes about 90 gallons, just under 1/2 yard.

1 Bale Peat Moss (3cuft, compressed)
7 bags EcoScraps (1cuft/ea)
5 gal hydroton (crushed up a bit, had it around, said 'why not')
3 cups Blood Meal
6 cups Bone Meal
2 1/2 cups Kelp Meal
4.5 cups ~ 3# Azomite
"" "" Greensand
4-5 gal crushed, washed Biochar
4.5 cups Dolomite Lime
2 cups Epsom Salts
2 cups Oyster flour
Beneficials and bene teas.

As far as bought compost goes. It ain't cheap, but the EcoScraps is veggie wastes and my plants have always been happy with it. It'll vary in acidity with the citric input, but so far has justified it's extra price (~33% more than biosolids)

Probably add in more humus and clay next time, get my CEC up, but for now that compost and humus in the compost should get by, this time.

I also realize now from finishing Teaming With Nutrients, that I may have wished Calcitic Lime instead of Dolo, as I may have doubled up on Mg and my calcium source is lower (but at least it's flour not chips).
Seeing how I now know what importance Ca has, I'll maybe switch that Dolo with Calcitic next time, depending on price/availability of course.

Dopegeist said:

First off, not dumb, but you may wish to in the future post these as your own thread.
Go to
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/forums/organic-soil.31/
and you will see a green box near top center-right of page that says 'Post New Thread'.
A catchy title helps, sometimes.

They are drying out so much that there is no water there to moisten the fibers. Think wet fibre rope versus dry fiber rope. The dry is rock hard, the wet is pliable. Your new soil is probably over 50% fibre (coco and peat moss) http://www.ideal420soil.com/ideal-420-soil/
Or a tee-shirt. When dry water will bead off it, once wet however, she can pour pitcher upon pitcher on that shirt and it flows right through.

Easiest way is to water each pot multiple times, for less time. Go through wet the surface till it takes, then go back and do more, adjust amounts/frequency as needed. Basically you are just rehydrating the medium so it will take water again.

Also a layer of mulch will do lots to keep that moisture in the container.

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Thank you. I reached out to the company. They said that particular batch they sent me had a little default in it so they sent me a new batch. Still haven't tried it. I'm doing pretty well in tga but thinking about going coco for the next run. But thanks for the info.

burn4me said:

Ok well thank you very much for that lesson everyone. I did think tea was tea. Im a little straightened now. But more intrigued also so ill have to read a couple good reads on the differences/benefits. Again thank you. Im off top dive into the massive collection of knowledge here. If yall can think of any off the top of your head shoot me a pm.

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They've put out another book, Teaming With Nutrients, available on Kindle (I've gotta fire up my Tablet, see if it still works because trying to read books on my phone sucks).

Also, if you REALLY want to know, start looking into how to gain organic registration and certification in your area, just hit up your county ag department. From that point on, your whole view of the scope of "organic" changes. A LOT of emphasis is placed on soil health.

So, since Patanjali brought up FPE, let me see if I can find the thread we've got here on it, as I think it needs more activity. I actually use FPEs or FPJs a LOT more than I do compost teas. I've got a lot of biological diversity and activity going on in my soil, what I need is nutrient balancing. I use what I see growing well in my area, mostly various oxalis spp, as well as two thistles (I will NOT touch the bullthistle, which I call fuck-you thistle, ants farm aphids on it and it pokes through leather gloves, it sucks) and to a large degree woolly mullein because it's so prevalent. I feel that whether you're into the vegan organic thing or not, adding these to your regimen can serve very well and goes a long way towards replacing bottled fertilizers & nutrients (or, in my case, supplements the urine feedings since I don't produce anywhere nearly enough to feed all my ladies).

Ok, off to find the thread!

Le thread... https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...acts-and-making-your-own-nutrient-line.18772/

Oh... I do love Google. Scholarly articles for 'fermented plant extracts'

I've bumped the thread.

Dopegeist said:

Testing this mix out, if you see some glaring caution, please do tell.
But so far seems good.
Makes about 90 gallons, just under 1/2 yard.

1 Bale Peat Moss (3cuft, compressed)
7 bags EcoScraps (1cuft/ea)
5 gal hydroton (crushed up a bit, had it around, said 'why not')
3 cups Blood Meal
6 cups Bone Meal
2 1/2 cups Kelp Meal
4.5 cups ~ 3# Azomite
"" "" Greensand
4-5 gal crushed, washed Biochar
4.5 cups Dolomite Lime
2 cups Epsom Salts
2 cups Oyster flour
Beneficials and bene teas.

As far as bought compost goes. It ain't cheap, but the EcoScraps is veggie wastes and my plants have always been happy with it. It'll vary in acidity with the citric input, but so far has justified it's extra price (~33% more than biosolids)

Probably add in more humus and clay next time, get my CEC up, but for now that compost and humus in the compost should get by, this time.

I also realize now from finishing Teaming With Nutrients, that I may have wished Calcitic Lime instead of Dolo, as I may have doubled up on Mg and my calcium source is lower (but at least it's flour not chips).
Seeing how I now know what importance Ca has, I'll maybe switch that Dolo with Calcitic next time, depending on price/availability of course.

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Soil secrets makes a compost called TTP and it's 15 $ fir a big heavy bag and it's composted whole vegatables and on their website they have a complete analysis of it maybe it's worth checking out here's a pic of some of there other ammendments but I have used there compost also im out right now

Seamaiden said:

Le thread... https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...acts-and-making-your-own-nutrient-line.18772/

Oh... I do love Google. Scholarly articles for 'fermented plant extracts'

I've bumped the thread.

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I'm really interested in learning more about FPEs and lactobacilli in the garden. I've got to go grab it, but there's an interesting article from mother earth news about using milk dilutions straight up, and we all know about rice wash cultivation, but i recently found this little gem over at gardenweb:
-----------------copy/paste job--------------------copy/paste----------------------------copy/paste------------------------------------
Main idea is to use non-alcohol fermentation in the gardening based on the fermenting cereals� grains. There are many ways of fermenting cereals to make beverages. But trying to be as simple as possible we came to this simple formula:

6 tbsp rye flour + 2 tbsp molasses + 1 gallon water, sit 3 days.
(author - Nandina)

This stuff is called on Russian kvas, I�ll use this term for designation.

Chemical composition: lactic acid, acetic acid (vinegar), enzymes, vitamins, antioxidants.
Microbial population: lactic acid bacteria, yeasts.
Physical properties: acidic, white color if made without molasses.
Way to keep: closed under the lid or covered by plastic film if kept in an open barrel.
Behavior: tend to be more acidic with time.
Related theory: Effective Microorganisms

Kvas may be used in the garden directly for watering and sprinkling plants diluted with water in ratio 1:0, 1:1, 1:10, 1:100, 1:1000. Better to use more diluted and more often. But pure kvas may be applied too, without hurting.

Kvas may be used for fermenting everything else in the garden: weeds, fruits, peels, etc to make fermented plant extract (FPE). Just put them in the kvas and wait some days. Herbs increase their healing and antioxidant properties tens times after fermentation with kvas.

As a tool for insects, ferment garlic or/and pepper and/or any herbs used as repellent. Use in dilution 1:100 � 1:1000 for sprinkling plants every other week.

There are more advanced recipes of making kvas based on using malt, making sourdough bread in oven, etc. (in this case microbial population will have also photosynthetic bacteria). But this recipe is simple and good for beginners.
With the given information everybody can try it in the garden.
------end c/p--------------end c/p------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm going to be running trials of this on my veggies and hot pepper gardens and i may be running it on the girls, too. i'd love to hear some other thoughts about the russian kvass. I have some wild garlic on the farm that i'm going to use to make an fpe with the kvass (per the above) but also want to try a cayenne--both in an attempt at preventing BMSBs around my tomatoes!
if all goes well in the raised beds, and i notice something good, then the indoor gals will get a taste!
Anyone using milk on their girls?

be easy,
Dr.J

EDIT: Here's the link to the article from Mother Earth

Nice! Would you post it up in the FPE thread, too, please?

Yes, I use milk, but I've actually seen much stronger, better, more vigorous response using sea salts, specifically what I've got is Sea-90. Two applications of Sea-90 stopped ALL BER (blossom end rot) on my tomatoes, peppers and squash IN ITS TRACKS. It's a constant problem for me because my soils are so Ca-. Milk garnered some response, but nothing like the Sea-90.

@Redux has discussed using ormus and another product, the name of which I'm currently forgetting entirely, I think it's called Seacrop but don't hold me to that. Based on his discussions and some articles I've read, I would like to try that and compare it to the dry salts of Sea-90.

kolah said:

Some very spiffy blends there folks! Nice.

My first grow I used nothing but Happy Frog soil in 5 gallon buckets, a few doses of General Organics Bloom in the flower stage and GO Ca/mg. Nothing more. Great Soil and natural sun, baby....and good genetic beans.

For next year I'll get fancy with Root Organics soil as a base and some other goodies (worm castings and other organic (clean) nutes)

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Pretty damn good for just happy frog, keep up the good work.