caveman4.20
- 5,969
- 313
Will Diatomaceous earth still shred insects when wet?
oregonized
- 153
- 43
^As a topdress, it's efficiency is severely decreased, as it is mixed in the soil though, I don't know....
I have seen examples where people planted in just Dia earth as a medium, no bugs will like that :)
I have seen examples where people planted in just Dia earth as a medium, no bugs will like that :)
spacebomb
- 1,370
- 113
no probs cave man.never thaught a pro like u wouls give me props:-)cheers dude.
spacebomb
- 1,370
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yes it will still fuck em right up.wet or dry.
spacebomb
- 1,370
- 113
ill be totally honest .idk.lol.i dont test mt soil ph.just water etc.i know it doesnt hurt.
Patanjali
- 578
- 243
I'll leave the pH meters for the hydro growers. Soil food web takes care of my pH. ;)
It is my understanding DE does not kill when wet? I'll have to look for some more information on this. Either way, I don't know that I would look to it as a silica source. How about a little horsetail?
@oregonized how is kelp meal a replacement for greensand?
And who's the devil?
P-
Seamaiden
Living dead girl
- 23,596
- 638
Oh no, carbon is not inert like perlite, though. It can ad- and absorb various molecular compounds, which is why it's used for chemical filtration of air, water, and whatever else you can push through it, and microbes can get to them. It's far more porous. It is renewable, unlike perlite, and it is due to these characteristics that carbon (bio-char) adds mineral density, fertility and friability to soils. That's what made the terra so preta! Bio-char and perlite aren't at all the same when compared in this manner.
caveman4.20
- 5,969
- 313
Well ph only gets my attention because I reuse the soil and build it so eventually ph gets my attention
Patanjali
- 578
- 243
I also reuse my soil. I'm still going to suggest leaving the pH pen to the hydro guys.
caveman4.20
- 5,969
- 313
Even for indoor ....I understand outdoor helps buffer and rihzosphere helps also but too acidic is a problem for veg and too basic is a problem for flowering
You are reminding me of a salty situation outdoor though it was basic soil and basic water from the hose but there was plenty of rain that year too witha consistent nuetral ph
Just thinking outloud ;)
You are reminding me of a salty situation outdoor though it was basic soil and basic water from the hose but there was plenty of rain that year too witha consistent nuetral ph
Just thinking outloud ;)
caveman4.20
- 5,969
- 313
Oh Ya that plant did ozsome so maybe ph is irrelevant
Patanjali
- 578
- 243
If you are using the soil food web, there is no reason to pH indoors or out. This is a hydro store myth. (as is npk imo)
Patanjali
- 578
- 243
Soil Biology and pH by Jeff Lowenfels
The success of the AeroGarden, the first plug-and-grow aeroponic kitchen appliance, is testament to the fact that ordinary people do not understand the concept of pH and don't want to deal with it in their growing situations. Make it so you can practice hydroponics without this chemistry barrier and they will come, apparently.
Frankly, the concept of pH also confuses soil gardeners. Heck, the definition of pH was inadvertently reversed in my book "Teaming With Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web." (Yes, some readers noticed; I received two "you made a mistake" notes. But that's not as many as I thought I'd receive.) Fortunately, the mistake was corrected in time for the second printing.
In any case, soil gardeners have been told certain plants require acidic conditions- for example, rhododendrons and azaleas- or else they won't grow. The solution advocated by most experienced gardeners is not dissimilar from what a hydroponics grower would do: adjust the pH with chemicals, such as agricultural lime, to make the soil more alkaline. To make alkaline soil more acid, we are told to add sulfur. Because they are chemical changes, these solutions work for a short time. But to me pH is a biological matter.
A bit of quick pH review is in order (if only to make amends for the mistake in my book). You may remember that pH is a measure of the acidity or alkalinity of a solution on a scale of 1 to 14; 1 being most acidic and 14 being most alkaline. A more technical description is that pH is the measurement of the concentration of hydrogen ions, H+. If you have lots of H+, the pH is low, or acidic. If you have few of them, the pH is high, or alkaline.
If you are adding fertilizers and using chemicals, you are stuck in the chemical realm. Organic gardeners, soil food webbies in particular, realize that pH has more to do with biology than it does with chemistry. That's because of the way plant roots take up nutrients. Root hair surfaces are covered with positive electrical hydrogen cations. Think of these charges as ping-pong balls. If soil particles are small enough, their surfaces are covered by these ping-pong ball charges, both positive (cation) charges and negative (anion) charges. These cations are not limited to hydrogen; they also include calcium, potassium, sodium, magnesium, iron, and ammonium. All are important plant nutrients.
When a root encounters a clay or organic particle, it can exchange one of its hydrogen cation for another positive one from the particle. It can choose from calcium, potassium, sodium, magnesium, iron, ammonium and hydrogen, as these are all cations carried by clay and silt and are all, as luck would have it, major plant nutrients.
This is known, incidentally, as cation exchange capacity, or CEC. Sand and silt have low CECs, because they comprised of particles that are too large to hold electrical charges. This is why humus and clay are needed to make soil good. They are extremely small particles and can carry cations.
So, back to pH. Every time a plant root exchanges a hydrogen ion for a nutrient ion, it increases the concentration of hydrogen ions in solution. Thus, the pH goes down and things should become more acidic.
Ah, but things usually balance out because the positive cations on the root surface also attract negative charges. Here, hydroxy ions (OH-) are the exchange ping-pong balls, and addition of hydroxy ions lowers the concentration of hydrogen ions in the solution, and pH goes up.
I know this still sounds like chemistry and not biology. However, each plant has an optimum pH requirement. What soil growers need to know (and hydroponics growers don't) is that the type of bacteria and fungi attracted to a plant's rhizosphere by the plant's exudates has a lot to do with setting this optimal pH. Bacteria produce a slim that raises the pH, and fungi produce acids that lower the pH. Since the plant is in control of the biology it attracts, in a natural system, it is the plant that determines the pH, and not some chemistry teacher.
So, while you may forget the chemistry of pH, at least remember there is a biological side. Do no harm to it, and you shouldn't have to worry much about pH when you grow plants in soil. Moreover, the nutrient exchanges that occur above also have a lot to do with what kind of bacteria and fungi are attracted to the root zone as some like higher pH and others lower pH.
The success of the AeroGarden, the first plug-and-grow aeroponic kitchen appliance, is testament to the fact that ordinary people do not understand the concept of pH and don't want to deal with it in their growing situations. Make it so you can practice hydroponics without this chemistry barrier and they will come, apparently.
Frankly, the concept of pH also confuses soil gardeners. Heck, the definition of pH was inadvertently reversed in my book "Teaming With Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web." (Yes, some readers noticed; I received two "you made a mistake" notes. But that's not as many as I thought I'd receive.) Fortunately, the mistake was corrected in time for the second printing.
In any case, soil gardeners have been told certain plants require acidic conditions- for example, rhododendrons and azaleas- or else they won't grow. The solution advocated by most experienced gardeners is not dissimilar from what a hydroponics grower would do: adjust the pH with chemicals, such as agricultural lime, to make the soil more alkaline. To make alkaline soil more acid, we are told to add sulfur. Because they are chemical changes, these solutions work for a short time. But to me pH is a biological matter.
A bit of quick pH review is in order (if only to make amends for the mistake in my book). You may remember that pH is a measure of the acidity or alkalinity of a solution on a scale of 1 to 14; 1 being most acidic and 14 being most alkaline. A more technical description is that pH is the measurement of the concentration of hydrogen ions, H+. If you have lots of H+, the pH is low, or acidic. If you have few of them, the pH is high, or alkaline.
If you are adding fertilizers and using chemicals, you are stuck in the chemical realm. Organic gardeners, soil food webbies in particular, realize that pH has more to do with biology than it does with chemistry. That's because of the way plant roots take up nutrients. Root hair surfaces are covered with positive electrical hydrogen cations. Think of these charges as ping-pong balls. If soil particles are small enough, their surfaces are covered by these ping-pong ball charges, both positive (cation) charges and negative (anion) charges. These cations are not limited to hydrogen; they also include calcium, potassium, sodium, magnesium, iron, and ammonium. All are important plant nutrients.
When a root encounters a clay or organic particle, it can exchange one of its hydrogen cation for another positive one from the particle. It can choose from calcium, potassium, sodium, magnesium, iron, ammonium and hydrogen, as these are all cations carried by clay and silt and are all, as luck would have it, major plant nutrients.
This is known, incidentally, as cation exchange capacity, or CEC. Sand and silt have low CECs, because they comprised of particles that are too large to hold electrical charges. This is why humus and clay are needed to make soil good. They are extremely small particles and can carry cations.
So, back to pH. Every time a plant root exchanges a hydrogen ion for a nutrient ion, it increases the concentration of hydrogen ions in solution. Thus, the pH goes down and things should become more acidic.
Ah, but things usually balance out because the positive cations on the root surface also attract negative charges. Here, hydroxy ions (OH-) are the exchange ping-pong balls, and addition of hydroxy ions lowers the concentration of hydrogen ions in the solution, and pH goes up.
I know this still sounds like chemistry and not biology. However, each plant has an optimum pH requirement. What soil growers need to know (and hydroponics growers don't) is that the type of bacteria and fungi attracted to a plant's rhizosphere by the plant's exudates has a lot to do with setting this optimal pH. Bacteria produce a slim that raises the pH, and fungi produce acids that lower the pH. Since the plant is in control of the biology it attracts, in a natural system, it is the plant that determines the pH, and not some chemistry teacher.
So, while you may forget the chemistry of pH, at least remember there is a biological side. Do no harm to it, and you shouldn't have to worry much about pH when you grow plants in soil. Moreover, the nutrient exchanges that occur above also have a lot to do with what kind of bacteria and fungi are attracted to the root zone as some like higher pH and others lower pH.
oregonized
- 153
- 43
Just an alkaline mineral replacer, does not replace the physical properties of greensand.
Personally, I use screened river sand/crushed rock and stinging nettle/vetch meal. Those are my par for the course. All diy.
caveman4.20
- 5,969
- 313
Great read gracias!
spacebomb
- 1,370
- 113
Hmm! i was sure ir did.if worked in.its still gonna be like a razor.lol.idk.ha
spacebomb
- 1,370
- 113
What the hell did i miss?
spacebomb
- 1,370
- 113
sorry.its just all ME ME ME TODAY.LOL the carbons for my bennies to breed in ,aswell nice + porous.recomended by the amazing seamaiden.cheers sea.works cool.
Dopegeist
- 702
- 93
Not sure about plant uptake.
More a warm water human ingestion problem, but FWIW.
""Lead contaminated soil can pose a risk through direct ingestion, uptake in vegetable gardens, or tracking into homes.
- Uncontaminated soil contains lead concentrations less than 50 ppm but soil lead levels in many urban areas exceed 200 ppm. (AAP 1993)
- The EPA's standard for lead in bare soil in play areas is 400 ppm by weight and 1200 ppm for non-play areas. This regulation applies to cleanup projects using federal funds.""
- http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/csem.asp?csem=7&po=8
Dopegeist
- 702
- 93
Anything with Guanos or Ureas (urine) will need to 'cook'.
Guano because they contain urine...Birds don't have separate excretory functions (chicken shit, ect.).
Horse manure (unless it contains lots of urine soaked bedding) doesn't need to cook. Some manures are 'hotter' than others, usually found in organic literature, with Guano usually being the 'hottest'.
So if you don't have time to 'cook' search for poop from ruminants and monogastric herbivoires...But keep in mind some places may scoop the poop with the soiled bedding, which is where urine can accumulate depending on the animal's living situation.
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