Potency Theories!

caveman4.20 · Nov 13, 2012

Im interested in peoples Potency Theories definitions anything reletive to potency and genetics and breeding you know it all relates

Ill begin with two topics, Smaller phenos more potent then bigger sibbling phenos

Special Breeding techiniques to maximize potency

i know its vague and many different theories differ amongst the array of genetics out there but why not share what we think we might know about some of these ecological plants

PurpleSticky · Nov 25, 2012

I'm not sure why potency would correlate with size directly. Since there is such a range of sizes of phenotypes that can carry either an indica or sativa dominance, I'd say that it isn't the case.

As for 'special' breeding techniques, I really don't think there are any. They are just regular breeding techniques. If you keep selecting and breeding the most potent plants, it will start to stabilize the potency.

There is a plant called sour diesel, it's fairly common. There are plenty of different breeders with sour diesel seeds.

paulycali · Nov 25, 2012

The middle is the most potent part of the plant

caveman4.20 · Nov 25, 2012

paulycali said:
The middle is the most potent part of the plant

i tried to quote you as well Purple but the button doesn work but i here what your saying potent with potent and also not so potent plants can through out some killer even more killer than parents cuz some genes skip generations! I think :)

caveman4.20 · Nov 25, 2012

The middle if in deed it recieved as much light as the bottom and top like the good scrog techinique could ensure the middle would be my favorite for flavor potency balance IMO

paulycali · Nov 26, 2012

Supplemental lighting during last 2 weeks of flowering increases potency

caveman4.20 · Nov 26, 2012

paulycali said:
Supplemental lighting during last 2 weeks of flowering increases potency

the 10k bulb pauly?

paulycali · Nov 26, 2012

I switch out the HPS bulbs and add MH bulbs during the last 2 weeks. I even add some LED's. Shit get's frosty as all hell. I believe HPS bulbs start to burn the trichomes during those crucial last 2 weeks. The plants at this point want less light and a better spectrum. They take off for sure and you can noticeably see the difference. Especially when done with a side by side experiment. Try it you'll be amazed by the results. No fun switching out bulbs but the hard work will pay off :)

DrBudACola · Nov 26, 2012

I am no scientist but I would like to make a few wild statements that may or may not be true;
I did alot of reading over the years and U know there is alot of BS out there I use to have a US govt. manual on Cannibus science performed at a major university. This maual stated that crossed genitcs cannot exceed the sum of the parents so they say no chance of a Frankenstien monster in the possible types. And that every plant has its own maximum limit of Enzyme production so there fore they claim that when U branch or grow a plant beyond its normal or natural size or range it lowers potency via increased distribution of the plants enzymes.
There is no info on Brix levels in cannibus but I wouuld imagine it applies all the same. AVT or ACT can significantly improve brix levels and I would imagine have an impact on potency and quality of potency.
My two cents worth. DrBudaCola

squiggly · Nov 26, 2012

DrBudACola said:
This maual stated that crossed genitcs cannot exceed the sum of the parents so they say no chance of a Frankenstien monster in the possible types.

Whatever it was that was said likely did not mean this the way you just implied it.

What the implication probably was is that you're not going to cross two pot plants and have one of them grow eyeballs.

You can definitely increase potency through breeding, however.

These should all be called potency hypothesis, not theories--sorry to nitpick :)

Cool thread. I'll drop some of what I know in it once I'm not screwed in school lol.

Dirty White Boy · Nov 26, 2012

These should all be called potency hypothesis, not theories--sorry to nitpick :)

lol, i agree.

Plants can absolutely be breed for potency, plants can be breed for a any characteristic a plant can possess. Brix levels dont directly effect any of the factors that dictate potency. They are a growth parameter, and effect terpenes, but mostly provide micro nutrients.

caveman4.20 · Nov 26, 2012

NEW THREAD NAME

POTENCY HYPO THESIS'S

;)

caveman4.20 · Nov 26, 2012

Squigly what do you think of throw back traits found in siblings that were only displayed in grand or great grandparents?

squiggly · Nov 26, 2012

caveman4.20 said:
Squigly what do you think of throw back traits found in siblings that were only displayed in grand or great grandparents?

I think you'll find the same thing if you look back in your family tree. I certainly do (lucky enough to have photos of family going fairly far back--they were famous :P )

caveman4.20 · Nov 26, 2012

lol you know it

PurpleSticky · Nov 26, 2012

Yeah, my parents aren't very tall. My mom is 5'6'' and my dad is 5'10''. My grandparents are about the same height. My great grandfather was a tall ass bastard, over six foot.

Both my brother and I, and one of my cousins, are tall. I'm the tallest, but my brother is 6 foot and my cousin, who is a she, is 5'8'' if not a little taller.

For breeding, isn't that a gamble though? Relying on the great grand children to reproduce the trait? I'd figure you'd just pull the original good offspring, instead of keeping the shitty runt plants.

squiggly · Nov 26, 2012

PurpleSticky said:
Yeah, my parents aren't very tall. My mom is 5'6'' and my dad is 5'10''. My grandparents are about the same height. My great grandfather was a tall ass bastard, over six foot.

Both my brother and I, and one of my cousins, are tall. I'm the tallest, but my brother is 6 foot and my cousin, who is a she, is 5'8'' if not a little taller.

For breeding, isn't that a gamble though? Relying on the great grand children to reproduce the trait? I'd figure you'd just pull the original good offspring, instead of keeping the shitty runt plants.

Unfortunately it's not this simple. In biology classes across America people have been led to believe that it's as simple as XY and xy, so that possible combinations are XX XY xx xy Xx Xy xY.

In reality it gets much more convoluted than this--and there are other things to consider such as expression.

Sometimes mutant traits are desirable when incorporated into healthy lines--other times effects can be detrimental.

A great example of this in humans is the sickle-cell trait. If a person has only one of the two alleles for the sickle-cell mutation--they have a protective effect against malaria and similar parasites.

Malaria is thought to have been the selective pressure which caused this mutation to form and proliferate (much in the same way we've created MRSA--malaria has created the sickle-cell trait, you can think of malaria as an "antibiotic" against humans).

So having one copy of the trait is very good and offers disease resistance--while having two, and thus sickle-cell disease--actually makes you very susceptible to malaria, even moreso than a normal individual (and of course it poses additional risks associated with sickle-cell disease).

So if we think of our plants as the people in this situation, we might notice one that is particularly sick (the one with sickle cell disease)--and another is doing just fine (the normal plant), however if we were to breed the two--we might find that the hybrid is twice as vigorous as the normal plant under a given set of conditions (i.e. the plant has only one of the sickle-cell alleles and is adapted to its environment). It's really up in the air.

Most of this would be moot, but for the fact that we're able to easily clone plants. Because we can do this, it allows us to probe further into what MJ genetics have to offer. If we couldn't do this, the act of breeding would be directionless.

Another way of saying things is that there's nothing to suggest that breeding some mexican brick with a bomb as strain won't produce something completely jaw dropping--it's just going to depend on the genetic profiles and how they mix.

The example you gave of short parents with tall offspring describes this perfectly. However--as with humans, many times it WILL be the case that the offspring resemble the parents. Sometimes the genetic benefit won't show itself till several generations out--and it's for this reason that successful breeders grow large numbers of plants, and generally carry them several generations out--many times randomly.

We can think of tall has being a desired trait (resin production, cola size, etc). We can't always judge the traits which will arise based on the traits of the parents--especially not without a genetic sequence and 7 million percent more scientific data on cannabis.

In essence, a blue cat and a red cat don't necessarily yield a purple cat. You have a few possibilities here:

1. Red
2. Blue
3. Purple.
and the best one:
4. Who the fuck knows.

Probably the best thing about genetics, and evolution, is that number 4 always holds true. We don't fucking know--and we're probably never going to. In terms of genetics, the answers are changing faster than we can ask them.

Life is essentially the most masterful password cracker of all time--it just keeps trying genetic sequences at random until it figures out something that WORKS in its environment, and then that thing proliferates it's nuts off.

Probably the coolest thing is how uniquely adaptive life is. For most of the species on earth--if you pick it up and move it 100miles, it will die--fast. The only exceptions really are the heartier mammals--and situations where you move a predated animal to a place where it has no natural predators and an abundance of food. If you rather introduce an animal into a similar food chain as where it came from--so long as it was not at the top of its previous food chain, it's going to have a rough time adapting.

These changes, when done naturally, occur over a great deal of time. They follow climate, chemical, and geological patterns. A cool example is the recent interbreeding we're starting to see between polar bears and grizzlies--as well as some species of whale we'd previously never seen mixing.

This is because their environments are changing such that they are overlapping now. This is where humans came from in the grand scheme of things, and MJ as well.

Something that is ALWAYS ALWAYS left out of genetic considerations for cannabis is environment--and it is the single most important thing with regard to genetic expression and genetic drift.

Think of it this way. Let's say you're trying to harvest some pollen. The TINIEST change in temperature--bumping the plant this way or that--can influence how it recombinates its dna for incorporation into pollen. This means that your offspring is not only determined by the pollen--but that also your pollen is determined by the environment.

baba G · Nov 26, 2012

squiggly said:
Unfortunately it's not this simple. In biology classes across America people have been led to believe that it's as simple as XY and xy, so that possible combinations are XX XY xx xy Xx Xy xY.

In reality it gets much more convoluted than this--and there are other things to consider such as expression.

Sometimes mutant traits are desirable when incorporated into healthy lines--other times effects can be detrimental.

A great example of this in humans is the sickle-cell trait. If a person has only one of the two alleles for the sickle-cell mutation--they have a protective effect against malaria and similar parasites.

Malaria is thought to have been the selective pressure which caused this mutation to form and proliferate (much in the same way we've created MRSA--malaria has created the sickle-cell trait, you can think of malaria as an "antibiotic" against humans).

So having one copy of the trait is very good and offers disease resistance--while having two, and thus sickle-cell disease--actually makes you very susceptible to malaria, even moreso than a normal individual (and of course it poses additional risks associated with sickle-cell disease).

So if we think of our plants as the people in this situation, we might notice one that is particularly sick (the one with sickle cell disease)--and another is doing just fine (the normal plant), however if we were to breed the two--we might find that the hybrid is twice as vigorous as the normal plant under a given set of conditions (i.e. the plant has only one of the sickle-cell alleles and is adapted to its environment). It's really up in the air.

Most of this would be moot, but for the fact that we're able to easily clone plants. Because we can do this, it allows us to probe further into what MJ genetics have to offer. If we couldn't do this, the act of breeding would be directionless.

Another way of saying things is that there's nothing to suggest that breeding some mexican brick with a bomb as strain won't produce something completely jaw dropping--it's just going to depend on the genetic profiles and how they mix.

The example you gave of short parents with tall offspring describes this perfectly. However--as with humans, many times it WILL be the case that the offspring resemble the parents. Sometimes the genetic benefit won't show itself till several generations out--and it's for this reason that successful breeders grow large numbers of plants, and generally carry them several generations out--many times randomly.

We can think of tall has being a desired trait (resin production, cola size, etc). We can't always judge the traits which will arise based on the traits of the parents--especially not without a genetic sequence and 7 million percent more scientific data on cannabis.

In essence, a blue cat and a red cat don't necessarily yield a purple cat. You have a few possibilities here:

1. Red
2. Blue
3. Purple.
and the best one:
4. Who the fuck knows.

Probably the best thing about genetics, and evolution, is that number 4 always holds true. We don't fucking know--and we're probably never going to. In terms of genetics, the answers are changing faster than we can ask them.

Life is essentially the most masterful password cracker of all time--it just keeps trying genetic sequences at random until it figures out something that WORKS in its environment, and then that thing proliferates it's nuts off.

Probably the coolest thing is how uniquely adaptive life is. For most of the species on earth--if you pick it up and move it 100miles, it will die--fast. The only exceptions really are the heartier mammals--and situations where you move a predated animal to a place where it has no natural predators and an abundance of food. If you rather introduce an animal into a similar food chain as where it came from--so long as it was not at the top of its previous food chain, it's going to have a rough time adapting.

These changes, when done naturally, occur over a great deal of time. They follow climate, chemical, and geological patterns. A cool example is the recent interbreeding we're starting to see between polar bears and grizzlies--as well as some species of whale we'd previously never seen mixing.

This is because their environments are changing such that they are overlapping now. This is where humans came from in the grand scheme of things, and MJ as well.

Something that is ALWAYS ALWAYS left out of genetic considerations for cannabis is environment--and it is the single most important thing with regard to genetic expression and genetic drift.

Think of it this way. Let's say you're trying to harvest some pollen. The TINIEST change in temperature--bumping the plant this way or that--can influence how it recombinates its dna for incorporation into pollen. This means that your offspring is not only determined by the pollen--but that also your pollen is determined by the environment.

CROSSING OVER is a huge recombination and a wild throw of the dice and they are multi-sided dice even, lol

DrBudACola · Nov 27, 2012

squiggly said:
Whatever it was that was said likely did not mean this the way you just implied it.

What the implication probably was is that you're not going to cross two pot plants and have one of them grow eyeballs.

You can definitely increase potency through breeding, however.

These should all be called potency hypothesis, not theories--sorry to nitpick :)

Cool thread. I'll drop some of what I know in it once I'm not screwed in school lol.

I knew my coments would stir the pot dooh......

caveman4.20 · Nov 27, 2012

Hybrid Vigor along with environmental factors i think high CBD is from an environmental factor for instance in most cases when the high CBD is expressed a lower THC is expressed but i only believe this for some plants RARELY have i seen ANY factors be 100% true for all plants
example droubt stress doesnt herm all plants out
photoperiod doesnt stress all plants out
Nute toxicity doesnt stress all plants out
i can go on and on

some plants wont herm at all theyll just die
Ive grown a reputable potent plant that didnt get some people high
and ive grown a week potent plant that got everyone high (clones with many people growing the same as a control)
The Creator put it all in the seed and we get the priveledge of observing the outcome

So i give environment 80% of the credit and 20% DNA

Thats given that you have complete DNA familiararity
example it took me two years to make big bud potent(medicinal) enough to make worth it to me
it only took my buddy one summer to make it worth it to him ....

Potency Theories!

Potency Theories!

caveman4.20

PurpleSticky

paulycali

caveman4.20

caveman4.20

paulycali

caveman4.20

paulycali

DrBudACola

squiggly

Dirty White Boy

caveman4.20

caveman4.20

squiggly

caveman4.20

PurpleSticky

squiggly

baba G

bean sprouts are tasty

DrBudACola

caveman4.20

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