Pre-extraction Prep (co2) Trim Selection

MTN Zone · Oct 2, 2017

We extract trim using a super-critical CO2 extraction system, and have gotten widely varying THC and terpene levels using the same temp and pressure settings. Does anyone have a technique or method of selecting trim or other cannabis material that results in high yields and THC/terpene levels?

DemonTrich · Oct 2, 2017

Thc % and terps are expressed by the strain, not the equipment

MTN Zone · Oct 2, 2017

It's expressed in the specific material that's selected for extraction. So my question is does anyone out there have a technique for selecting their input material that has resulted in consistently good yield, potency and terpene levels. I'm particularly interested in visual cues that do not rely on test results reported by the supplier, or additional testing.

DemonTrich · Oct 3, 2017

Genetics and strain play a huge Kenyon returns and quality. Can't get shit out of crap starting material.

MTN Zone · Oct 3, 2017

Indeed. I've not been able to determine reliable visual quality cues. Some trim that looks like crap extracts great. And other trim that's sticky and covered with crystals extracts like crap.

MirrorZen · Oct 3, 2017

Demon is right,
Garbage is garbage out...
I blasted last years outdoor Bud rot (yeah I know GROSS! Straight brown gnar. Don't worry its all personal, it would ruin rep lol) the other day. Just came out of the oven looking a lot better than expected. Its all about technique and being consistent with it.

DemonTrich · Oct 3, 2017

^^
Fractional distill that for a primo top shelf result. It makes even the crappiest runs, come out like top.shelf.

MirrorZen · Oct 4, 2017

DemonTrich said:
^^
Fractional distill that for a primo top shelf result. It makes even the crappiest runs, come out like top.shelf.

I got a guy but the whole 50% thing kills me. Funny because I do a similar deal when blasting for ppl. Shoes on the other foot now lol.

DemonTrich · Oct 4, 2017

Yeah
Still doing the 50% to my guy. Moving soon, so I'll be keeping all the trim biz i bring him. Ill be able to do all the work myself.

Arty · Oct 29, 2017

MTN Zone said:
We extract trim using a super-critical CO2 extraction system, and have gotten widely varying THC and terpene levels using the same temp and pressure settings. Does anyone have a technique or method of selecting trim or other cannabis material that results in high yields and THC/terpene levels?

Always start with strain but to answer your question in the visual aspect, always look for these factors:
-sugar leafs
-water leafs
-stems
- flowers
-age

and for equipment parameters is key...not always about the yield but the quality

SpencerAtlas · Mar 4, 2018

MTN Zone said:
It's expressed in the specific material that's selected for extraction. So my question is does anyone out there have a technique for selecting their input material that has resulted in consistently good yield, potency and terpene levels. I'm particularly interested in visual cues that do not rely on test results reported by the supplier, or additional testing.

We have great returns on GG#4 and Sour D

Cyclopath · Mar 5, 2018

If you don't want to spend money on 3rd party testing, then I can think of two sure ways to ensure that the input you're buying is worth extracting.

Three if you include the old fashioned Organoleptic Bioassay :)

1) Spend money on in-house testing equipment
2) performing a test extraction
3) Smoke some!

SRI GC sells a $10k unit they claim with give you cannabinoids, terpenes, and residual solvents (comes in handy later, if you're winterizing). It won't tell you the level of decarb. Might be important. There are work arounds for that.

You'll want to know moisture content as well. Ideally you're already bringing it to a standard value pre-extraction.

Your test extraction would ideally use the same solvent as your production machine. I think OCO labs probably sells the cheapest test sled for your purposes. You might also need their autopilot because matching your production machine parameters is important, and you don't want to sit around all day manually adjusting the decompression valve.

The problem with that strategy is you'll probably want to send most of the test extractions out for 3rd party testing anyway. I imagine some will look good enough, or bad enough that you don't need anyone else to confirm.

The tried and try method is to smoke it. I enter this as "Quality Control: In-house Organoleptic Bioassay" in state mandated records. :)

I would recommend a temperature controlled vaporizer rather than rolling a joint. Using something like the volcano with a single hit sized bag, and a carefully weighed sample allows you to also control the dose from day to day or tester to tester...more than one opinion is probably helpful...and possibly more fun too.

DemonTrich · Mar 5, 2018

@Cyclopath

Can you post a link to the 10k cg testing machine? I'l pull the trigger on that asap. I already have access to a storefront next to my buddies hydroshop.

Cyclopath · Mar 5, 2018

DemonTrich said:
@Cyclopath

Can you post a link to the 10k cg testing machine? I'l pull the trigger on that asap. I already have access to a storefront next to my buddies hydroshop.

http://srigc.com/ two cannabis specific rigs on their home page. The 310 looks to be most appropriate for an extractor (residual solvet, cannabinoids, terpenes).

I'm running an older version of their 8610C that I purchased used several years ago from a dispensary. It does a great job on cannabinoids. I wasn't impressed with it's performance the few times I've tried getting terpene profiles out of it. It was fine for figuring out which strain was which when some clown loaded all the outdoor weed in the truck without labeling it, but not much good for comparing levels between plants/cuts/treatments. Never tried their recommended residual solvent column.

They have a decent How-to library http://srigc.com/pages/document_downloads/ & their tech-support got me spun up fast even though I purchased a used machine. you'll have to scroll a long way to find the cannabis specific section on their downloads page, but its worth it.

I highly recommend chatting on the phone with them to figure which machine makes the most sense.

This $4k unit on ebay is identical to the unit I'm using except for the column pictured. You'd need a hydrogen tank, a regulator, and a 15M x 0.53mm I.D. 0.16um MXT-500, from Restek.

DemonTrich · Mar 5, 2018

Sweet, gonna have a sit down with my buddy tomorrow.

Well a quick 5 min phone call was enough. 1000/mo lease on a 900sq' store next to hydroshop. He said he would go in 50/50 on everything.

I like the 4999 unit, but I think the extra 5k to test terp profiles may pay off in the end.

progeny-prodigy · Mar 6, 2018

yea they also have good youtube videos. i have wanted one of these since i found it online a year ago but cant afford it

Cyclopath · Mar 6, 2018

Once you have them dialed in they are quite robust. Just make sure you don't inject trichomes. The tube is only 500microns, so 75 or 125 microns "boulders" have a tendency to make a mess in there and are a royal pain to get back out. All you have to do to avoid it is NOT shake the vial before you inject. Ask me how I know :-)

The longer column in the more expensive unit gives better resolution. 2meters vs 15meters. Which makes separating CBG from THC (for instance) easier. Might be a simple upgrade to the cheaper machine.

In my hands terpene profiles were "qualitative" rather the "quantitative", I talked to a half dozen chemists and they all said that was not surprising given the difficulty they had getting the same technique to work on their more expensive machines. I was looking at F1 progeny and wanted to pick the plant with the highest terpene levels. Wasn't happening....

I've seen the 8610C on ebay for ~$4k on a fairly regular basis. If you go that route try and get one with a heated injector. It helps resolution by making sure your cannabinoids decarb en-mass in the injector rather than as they start moving through the tube. I should probably get mine upgraded at some point.

Cyclopath · Mar 6, 2018

For those with less capital, there is always TLC. eg Alpha CAT

https://www.alpha-cat.org/the-test/how-it-works/

I've personally run about a dozen plates in a lab that partnered with Cannatest. I would characterize the results as "semi-quantitative". The operator has to compare the size of the spots to a flash card to get a number. So it's fairly subjective...

I also preferred the reusable glass vials and Ethanol as waste product that came with the GC, over the disposable plastic vials and Chloroform waste generated when using TLC.

Your mileage may vary.

Pre-extraction Prep (co2) Trim Selection

Pre-extraction Prep (co2) Trim Selection

MTN Zone

DemonTrich

MTN Zone

DemonTrich

MTN Zone

MirrorZen

DemonTrich

MirrorZen

DemonTrich

Arty

SpencerAtlas

Cyclopath

DemonTrich

Cyclopath

DemonTrich

progeny-prodigy

Cyclopath

Cyclopath

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