Pro Opinions - Smart Pots Vs In Ground

[papapayne]

Hey all - been having a very spirited debate with some old timers, and I was wondering what some of your guys think,

I have always been under the impression nothing beats going direct in ground when the soil is high quality.


last year I pulled 3-4# on the bigger plants and 1-2# on some runts - in 65 gallon smart pots. Didnt get to the new house till june, so was behind.

this season, I have my 8 plants already currently in 10 gallon smart pots, and 3 foot tall, topped out many times already, will blow up once sun hits em.

Just curious what yall think! I was planning on burying them, smart pot and all, right in the greenhouse, in my good soil.

 

[GT21]

Hey all - been having a very spirited debate with some old timers, and I was wondering what some of your guys think,

I have always been under the impression nothing beats going direct in ground when the soil is high quality.


last year I pulled 3-4# on the bigger plants and 1-2# on some runts - in 65 gallon smart pots. Didnt get to the new house till june, so was behind.

this season, I have my 8 plants already currently in 10 gallon smart pots, and 3 foot tall, topped out many times already, will blow up once sun hits em.

Just curious what yall think! I was planning on burying them, smart pot and all, right in the greenhouse, in my good soil.

Cut the smart pot off then bury

 

[Reeferkief]

Since you are starting in a small container I would either do what GT21 said or straight in the ground and mound the sluts(All the way in dirt until you are at the first node). The only draw back to the solution GT21 came up with is your smart pots aren't going to be moved for a long time so if your planning to stick around not a bad idea and with the containers you have to fill them up with quality soil and you have to deal with the excessive evaporation rates through the side of the smart pot(More watering most likely). Either way works but if you can manage your soil on site I would do that. Possibly look into permaculture and work on building a sustainable set up with beneficial plants (Biodynamic accumulators, beneficial insect attractors, pollinator attractors). Building/improving your local biosphere will help the relationships of nature meet maximum potential, just do so while creating beneficial run off and a utopia for life.

 

[Seamaiden]

Hey all - been having a very spirited debate with some old timers, and I was wondering what some of your guys think,

I have always been under the impression nothing beats going direct in ground when the soil is high quality.


last year I pulled 3-4# on the bigger plants and 1-2# on some runts - in 65 gallon smart pots. Didnt get to the new house till june, so was behind.

this season, I have my 8 plants already currently in 10 gallon smart pots, and 3 foot tall, topped out many times already, will blow up once sun hits em.

Just curious what yall think! I was planning on burying them, smart pot and all, right in the greenhouse, in my good soil.

Really, to me it most depends on your area. If you're in a dry or drought prone area then I think you should stick with in-ground planting (it's my preferred, in raised beds though). If you're in an area where you're going to get summer rains and higher humidity, then I think big-ass Smart Pots would be a good way to go.

That said, most of the pros I know are still using SP's (and going through a qualified shit-ton of water while they're at it).

 

[Reeferkief]

Yea if you are in a area of drought I know some desert farming methods to save your water use by a noticeable amount(without reconstructing water tables). Look into sub irrigated planters, I know people that have custom built 100 gal + sized SIP's. According to United Nations they recorded a 1/3 of water being used in SIP's. Another method I'm going to be playing a lot with this outdoor season is hugelkultur beds the water retention is superb from my readings and good way to build great beds on site with beneficial properties.

 

[Seamaiden]

It is, but you've GOT to use logs in the hugelkultur and you've got to use them the right way.

 

[Reeferkief]

It's just woody debris in my experience from reading and practice. Is the right way you are referring to how you plan on placing the debris, if so it should be somewhat strategical. I find the combination of logs fresh and aged arranging in sizes and sticks also are fine(certain types of wood to avoid Black walnut Black Locust Cedar Etc.). I personally add biochar and layer a little with IMO3 while occasional stuffing of biodynamic accumulators. All mounded and heavily mulched watered in with a tea.

 

[Seamaiden]

Yes! Now you are TALKIN'. :D

 

[Bulldog11]

I can speak volumes on this:

First off, my advice would change depending on geographical area, but I know @papapayne grows in a climate where PM can be an issue. So I would assume that means moist, and not super hot and dry.

Smart Pots: Smart pots are second to none when it comes to oxygen exchange. You can run them like coco pots indoors with a constant drip if you desire......actually seen it done with a 65 gallon and a huge plant. Kept drying out, so the grower would just leave the hose on a drip all day, every day. When the water gets pulled through the root zone, it carries oxygen with it. With this superior air flow, it creates a micro bacterial haven, that is second to none. Diseases like wilt are hard to come by in smart pots. Smart pots are also excellent mole/gopher barriers. I have been using some of my smart pots for 7+years now, and they are still holding up.....barely.

Down side to smart pots, like seamaiden stated, is the extra water usage. Last season I used a couple 400 smart pots, when I normally use 200's in the past. I found the 400 didn't really have water holding issues. The ratio of surface area to the outside surface of the plant is lower when using a larger pot. This year, I have a handful of 800's and 1000's I believe will hold water even better.

You talked about burying the smart pots.......Unless you leave air flow around the outside, then everything I just stated means nothing. On top of that, your soil in the pot will dry out quicker than the natural soil it's buried in. Meaning, you will have a puddle at the bottom of every hole, and waiting for disease.

In ground growing: Over time, with soil tests, natural soil is probably the best bet. However most natural soil lacks minerals, which is very important. So your first year in natural soil will most likely leave room for improvement. Those minerals take time to break down, and you will be forced to foliar feed those elements. Gophers can be a problem here also. If your thinking you can just dig holes and add soil, then I would warn about the difference in density and a puddle forming where the two soils meat.



In a perfect world, in ground growing takes the cake.

 

[Growin Grass]

qualified shit-ton

Is that a standardized measurement?

 

[Reeferkief]

You assume your water retention abilities would increase due to container size but not evaporation rates just because of the amount of soil? You are practically using X amount of soil just for a barrier to hold moisture? In the situation you bring up I feel you would have the small pools/pockets in the larger containers due to the more area. Which would result in a increase in evaporation rate from all external points (with increased surface area)other then the base connected to the ground (unless propped up for draining) due to the function of smart pots this would leave a saturated middle medium with possibly pooling at the bottom, which can eventually lead to pathogens inhabiting those environments, possibly wilting, but not because a lack of water. Possibly pythium fusarium or some parasitic organism. I just see a waste of money on dirt and excess water also increased chances of pathogens, only functional value of containers that big is planting sets and not individuals in my opinion.

Also how does setting a smart pot 4-5 inches in the dirt cause pooling if the on site soil is up to par. Drainage will be no issue and roots will rip through smart parts just like they do concrete.

 

[papapayne]

Yea the goal behind burying them was simply to not try to transplant big ass plants outta 10 gallons. I'm expected that the pots will be destoryed but that massive roots going thru them.


Sounds like the debate continues lol, but yall gabe me some great pointers to consider.

 

[Growin Grass]

Smart pot on soil and smart pot on gravel side/side could prove interesting

 

[Bulldog11]

You assume your water retention abilities would increase due to container size but not evaporation rates just because of the amount of soil? You are practically using X amount of soil just for a barrier to hold moisture? In the situation you bring up I feel you would have the small pools/pockets in the larger containers due to the more area. Which would result in a increase in evaporation rate from all external points (with increased surface area)other then the base connected to the ground (unless propped up for draining) due to the function of smart pots this would leave a saturated middle medium with possibly pooling at the bottom, which can eventually lead to pathogens inhabiting those environments, possibly wilting, but not because a lack of water. Possibly pythium fusarium or some parasitic organism. I just see a waste of money on dirt and excess water also increased chances of pathogens, only functional value of containers that big is planting sets and not individuals in my opinion.

Also how does setting a smart pot 4-5 inches in the dirt cause pooling if the on site soil is up to par. Drainage will be no issue and roots will rip through smart parts just like they do concrete.

No, I don't assume anything. I have tested this out in the harshest of environments. I have buried my pots, I have used 1-400gals, I have grown on pallets, rock, ext. I have had the smart pot guy make me custom pots. I know them inside and out. No assuming going on. I will ask you this, what will dry out faster: a 1 gallon smart pot, or a 200 gallon smart pot? Now why do you assume there is no difference? With the proper drip system and watering schedule, your soil in the smart pot shouldn't have dry or wet zones. However if you bury the pot, the surrounding soil moisture will effect how the soil in the pot drys out, obviously right? If you have ever put a smart pot right onto concrete, you will experience how dry concrete will wick the water right out of the smart pot. Bottom line, burying the smart pot will drastically change the effect and benefits of the smart pot.

I would love to hear how a soilless medium in a smart pot would have a higher chance of wilt than a plant in native soil.........Really, that one seems illogical to me.......

As far as setting a smart pot 4-5" in the dirt..... Well, the soil in your container will have a different bulk density than the soil on the ground. The ground soil is usually more dense, and drains slower. So the soil on top will dry out faster than the soil at the bottom 4-5", creating a wet zone and possible anaerobic zone. Let's take a drastic example. Lets say you buried your smart pot in 4-5" of pond liner. What happens when you water? Same theory applies here.

The functional value of a plant pot that size is to grow huge plants. Not sure where you are located but here in cali we are restricted by plant numbers. So, the bigger the pot the larger the plant. Bottom line. Ever seen a 15# plant before? I bet it wasn't grown in a 5 gallon pot. Also a large soil volume is easier to keep your base cation saturation levels on point. Bigger battery = more room for CEC = more room for organic matter = less ph swing = healthier plants.

BTW - Root will never rip through a smart pot. I don't care how big you grow a plant. The roots will find their way through, but this isn't a redwood with a giant tap root......

 

[papapayne]

Yea...bulldog you make great points. I've never gone in the griund, and your right to, all the big guys I know do smart pots.

I already 6 100s, with 8 plants slotted...I suppose the real question then is...upgrade to 200s on all 8, or just rock 6 100s an fill n 2 slots with more pots.

 

[Blaze]

I'll second what Bulldog and Seamaiden said, they hit the nail on the head. Raised beds are hands down the best way to go, after that, smart pots will give you the 2nd best rate of growth and yields. Growing directly in the ground, in most cases, offer no advantages other than it is cheap and easy initially. However since the growth rate and yield are almost always always less than smart pots or raised beds, your return on investment is less, making it far less efficient in the long run.

Burying smart pots in the ground is utterly pointless, it won't do a damn thing to help you; if anything it will stunt your root growth and eliminate all of the advantages of smart pots, just like Bulldog said. Smart pots will use more water in drier climates, but the larger the volume of soil, the less water you will use and the faster your plants will grow and the bigger they will get. One of the simplest, easiest ways to not only increase growth and yield, as well as to cut down on the amount of water you use, is to give your plants a greater volume of soil to grow in. So my advice - go as big as you can, and use either raised beds or smart pots. You won't be disappointed, I promise.

 

[papapayne]

200 gallons ordered :)

 

[Seamaiden]

Is that a standardized measurement?

Actually, yes it is. It is what will fit into a Bagster dumpster bag, or about 3,200lbs. :D

 

[Growin Grass]

Bagster dumpster bag,

Folks are using pond liners to get those to hold water?
Edit: Sorry OP for getting off topic won't go any further than this

 

[SpiderK]

First off, it does not matter what you grow in as long as you prepare and counteract issues. Look around outdoor 98% of the time most plants grow just fine in the ground. Nobody is running around ph'ing soil, adding nutes yet most outdoor growth does just fine. I grew this in two gallon grow bag ( plastic grow baggy ) 2/3rd's full w/ media. It was 7 feet tall at harvest, 3-4oz -

Outdoors 6 hours of sun ( direct ) , 50%-60% humidity most of the time.