PROBLEMS AGAIN

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johnnyrex

johnnyrex

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Thanks all4freedumb I know what you mean I also use to run my top off hot and had issues with ph dropping and the results were ok this actually my first run using my top off with tap and wow is all I can say my plants are bigger and fuller than ever with less veg time and at week 4 they have nice looking flower I know this is going to be my best run ever can't wait
 
LexLuthor

LexLuthor

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I don't have experience using an under current system, but I think when your EC keeps dropping in such a short period of time that means they are using more nutrients relative to water. So when that happens you should up your nutrient strength, instead of putting your nutrient solution around 4-500, maybe you should up it to 6-700?? If it keeps dropping without burning the plants, then keep raising it till you have it dialed in. Also, 4 week old plants in the UC could easily be as big as 6-8 week old plants in pots with soil, when my plants are that big and/or old they usually get at least 750-1050 ppm depending on your scale, basically 1.5 EC. Good luck on your grow.
 
LexLuthor

LexLuthor

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6 feet tall and 8 feet around i still haven't broken 400.


Yeah, I read someone say 800 ppm is the highest you should go in the UC because its so efficient, but I read that after I posted that reply above.
 
johnnyrex

johnnyrex

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6 feet tall and 8 feet around i still haven't broken 400.
Q9 is that 500 scale? Hole shit 8' round damn that must be some sight!!

Yeah, I read someone say 800 ppm is the highest you should go in the UC because its so efficient, but I read that after I posted that reply above.
Hey lex it was DS that stated that he never broke at peak 800 ppm (700 scale) I'm following the same regiment I'm at week 4 but my tap comes out at 60ppm so my total ppm at the start of week 4 is 860ppm 3 days later its at 620ppm I have a 55 gallon drum this morning they drank about 40 gallon in 1 day incredible.
 
squiggly

squiggly

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can you further explain that for me squiggly?

Sure.

pH is really a measure of solvated hydrogen ion activity, commonly thought of as hydrogen ion chemical potential as well.

It is "dumbed down" to mean concentration in gen chem and for the most part--but as with anything else, the physical state of something is subject to thermodynamics.

Temperature is just another way of saying how fast the particles are moving, how much energy they contain, or how much potential they have (and other stuff).

So pH actually goes down (which is an increase in hydrogen ion activity) as temperatures go up. This is what we expect, as the molecules are in a more excited state. They contain more energy, potential and otherwise. As the hydrogen ions are moving around faster, they have a higher degree of probability that they will strike a molecule they can react with. As you might be well aware, everything really sort of depends on probability--the translation here is usually an increase in the rate of reaction (for a standard reaction). This includes the dissociation of hydrogen ions from water. Even pure water has its pH affected by temperature. In this case there is also an increase in activity because of the increased speed of the molecules--and other considerations which I'm not really fit to explain having to do with hydrogen bonding and advanced structures thereof at different temperatures.

For this reason most reactions--except those which are very exothermic--will always be sped along with an increase in temperature (as long as reactants/products are stable at that temp). Even exothermic reactions benefit from a bit of initial energy input, but prefer to be cooled down afterwards (and this follows from chemical equilibrium considerations--a la Le Chatlier's Principle).
 
johnnyrex

johnnyrex

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Well I have run into problems again maybe someone can chime in I have notice that after my week 6 that my ph is dropping as my ppm also can't understand why. Week 6 started at a ppm of 750 with ph at 5.1 3 days later ppm are at 550 and ph is at 5.7 so were looking good so far. Next day ppm is at 500 and ph dropped to 5.3. As I add back nutes to 700+ppm ph start to rise.
Now I have notice that the following week nutes have to be higher to keep ph from dropping and so forth. Now I am in week 9 want to bring my ppm down to 300ish before week 10 flush and my ph is dropping but this time my ppm is rising WTF any help thanks
 
T

tipper619sd

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Well I have run into problems again maybe someone can chime in I have notice that after my week 6 that my ph is dropping as my ppm also can't understand why. Week 6 started at a ppm of 750 with ph at 5.1 3 days later ppm are at 550 and ph is at 5.7 so were looking good so far. Next day ppm is at 500 and ph dropped to 5.3. As I add back nutes to 700+ppm ph start to rise.
Now I have notice that the following week nutes have to be higher to keep ph from dropping and so forth. Now I am in week 9 want to bring my ppm down to 300ish before week 10 flush and my ph is dropping but this time my ppm is rising WTF any help thanks

I would run them full strength until flush then run they uc roots and water for a few days then fresh water no ph anything for a few more days swap water if needed and u should be golden. It is dropping because they are drinking everything in the buckets , aslso did u drop the water level in the buckets helps ripen .
 
LexLuthor

LexLuthor

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I would run them full strength until flush then run they uc roots and water for a few days then fresh water no ph anything for a few more days swap water if needed and u should be golden. It is dropping because they are drinking everything in the buckets , aslso did u drop the water level in the buckets helps ripen .



The weird thing is he said when the pH drops his EC also drops. I always thought if plants were drinking more then eating then the EC would rise as pH drops??
 
W

Worm254

29
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Well I have run into problems again maybe someone can chime in I have notice that after my week 6 that my ph is dropping as my ppm also can't understand why. Week 6 started at a ppm of 750 with ph at 5.1 3 days later ppm are at 550 and ph is at 5.7 so were looking good so far. Next day ppm is at 500 and ph dropped to 5.3. As I add back nutes to 700+ppm ph start to rise.
Now I have notice that the following week nutes have to be higher to keep ph from dropping and so forth. Now I am in week 9 want to bring my ppm down to 300ish before week 10 flush and my ph is dropping but this time my ppm is rising WTF any help thanks
I am having the exact same problems right now and have yet to figure it out. contacted cch2o a few times and am getting contradicting suggestions (ppm to high, then ppm to low etc.) Curious if we can find a answer for this one. This problem doesn't seem to not follow the rules lol.
I don't know about you johnny but my ph problems always start after i do add backs to bring my ppm back up (i add back slowly) and ph back down to 5.3ish. Ph usually starts to swing back down once the ph hits around 5.7-5.9.
 
Quantum9

Quantum9

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First of all remove the idea of "eating" from the way you think of nutrients - they ARE NOT FOOD. They make up the elemental needs of plants stricktly in the most base sence of chemical reactions, similar to the way people use multi vitamins.

Of those vitamins we are giving plants, 96% are provided by the atmosphere (C, H, and O). they cannot be given to plants, however we can impede the plants access to them - (which is usually the cause of nutritional imbalances. ) So N,P,K,Ca,Mg,S,Mn, etc all together make up 4% of the elemental needs of plants. (light is the plants food.)

Next, the idea that they can "drink" and not "eat" ceases to make sense. Plants do have selectable membrane at the epidermis of the rhizosphere, however the depth of the ability for them to select is probably minimal, and for our purposes serve mostly as a "clotting" agent whereby the root becomes less active or even inactive and begins to rot. This is why UC roots is so effective, it exfoliates clotted roots.

Finally, the mantra pH up, ec down = good and pH down Ec up = bad, is all well and good if your flooding and draining, but for our purposes leaves much information to be desired.

Let water consumption be your guide, plants that are not up-taking water cannot be up-taking nutrients; where-as plants using 2 gallons per day, per plant site, of very very low solution strengths can be up-taking astronomical total nutrient values.
 
woodsmaneh

woodsmaneh

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6 feet tall and 8 feet around i still haven't broken 400.

This is a change from a year ago I think, You use to run twice that? What made you run so low, your ladies like it? are you missing potential growth because your not pushing a little higher? When your mixing 300 gal at a time this could save some dollars. Have you got a thread started here on it? I have seen your grows so I don't doubt what your saying, it works. Sounds like your re-writing the UC book compared to a year or two ago. I sure have made some changes how I run mine.
 
LexLuthor

LexLuthor

2,972
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First of all remove the idea of "eating" from the way you think of nutrients - they ARE NOT FOOD. They make up the elemental needs of plants stricktly in the most base sence of chemical reactions, similar to the way people use multi vitamins.

Of those vitamins we are giving plants, 96% are provided by the atmosphere (C, H, and O). they cannot be given to plants, however we can impede the plants access to them - (which is usually the cause of nutritional imbalances. ) So N,P,K,Ca,Mg,S,Mn, etc all together make up 4% of the elemental needs of plants. (light is the plants food.)

Next, the idea that they can "drink" and not "eat" ceases to make sense. Plants do have selectable membrane at the epidermis of the rhizosphere, however the depth of the ability for them to select is probably minimal, and for our purposes serve mostly as a "clotting" agent whereby the root becomes less active or even inactive and begins to rot. This is why UC roots is so effective, it exfoliates clotted roots.

Finally, the mantra pH up, ec down = good and pH down Ec up = bad, is all well and good if your flooding and draining, but for our purposes leaves much information to be desired.

Let water consumption be your guide, plants that are not up-taking water cannot be up-taking nutrients; where-as plants using 2 gallons per day, per plant site, of very very low solution strengths can be up-taking astronomical total nutrient values.



I know plants don't literally 'drink' and 'eat' liquids and nutrients. But its an easy way for me to type shorter posts and just about everybody understands what it means. I've never had someone ask me "what does it mean when you say a plant drinks??"

Also, I never said or seen anybody say pH up, EC down or vice versa is good or bad.

Thanks for the info, it makes me wanna learn more about plant biology.
 
T

tipper619sd

1,375
163
First of all remove the idea of "eating" from the way you think of nutrients - they ARE NOT FOOD. They make up the elemental needs of plants stricktly in the most base sence of chemical reactions, similar to the way people use multi vitamins.

Of those vitamins we are giving plants, 96% are provided by the atmosphere (C, H, and O). they cannot be given to plants, however we can impede the plants access to them - (which is usually the cause of nutritional imbalances. ) So N,P,K,Ca,Mg,S,Mn, etc all together make up 4% of the elemental needs of plants. (light is the plants food.)

Next, the idea that they can "drink" and not "eat" ceases to make sense. Plants do have selectable membrane at the epidermis of the rhizosphere, however the depth of the ability for them to select is probably minimal, and for our purposes serve mostly as a "clotting" agent whereby the root becomes less active or even inactive and begins to rot. This is why UC roots is so effective, it exfoliates clotted roots.

Finally, the mantra pH up, ec down = good and pH down Ec up = bad, is all well and good if your flooding and draining, but for our purposes leaves much information to be desired.

Let water consumption be your guide, plants that are not up-taking water cannot be up-taking nutrients; where-as plants using 2 gallons per day, per plant site, of very very low solution strengths can be up-taking astronomical total nutrient values.

Nicely put Q9 i also started using a mix of what my plants like not what the label says. I know i have seen my plants consume big amounts of low ec nutrient and ok amounts of higher nutrients. I myself personally like to run the low ec and my plants seem to really enjoy it , not to mention the few days when they get a higher ec and drink it down from time to time. Thanks bro for the info really clarified things for me.
 
johnnyrex

johnnyrex

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Thanks for info guys I understand that ph up and ec down = good but I can't figure out how to correct as of today ppm 320 and ph is going down but on the up note that ppm is going down. How can I correct this issue? Thanks
 
Capulator

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Q9 is that 500 scale? Hole shit 8' round damn that must be some sight!!


Hey lex it was DS that stated that he never broke at peak 800 ppm (700 scale) I'm following the same regiment I'm at week 4 but my tap comes out at 60ppm so my total ppm at the start of week 4 is 860ppm 3 days later its at 620ppm I have a 55 gallon drum this morning they drank about 40 gallon in 1 day incredible.

glad you got back on track brother!
 
Capulator

Capulator

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Thanks for info guys I understand that ph up and ec down = good but I can't figure out how to correct as of today ppm 320 and ph is going down but on the up note that ppm is going down. How can I correct this issue? Thanks

It's ok for the pH to swing around. If it is dropping drastically you could have a bacteria problem. The plants may also not need as much food. What week are you in? Usually weeks 4/5 the plants like to take in nutes, but then after that you will see a drop off in how much they are using... thats when you bring the EC down. If the plants are drinking, then that's a good sign. I would look at all the variables (how so the plants look, are they drinking, temps, RH etc) and if it all looks good it may be nothing at all to worry about. Some days my plants don't drink or consume much, and other days they drink and take in nutes like pigs.
 
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