Problems with my first run

[newfarmer]

Hi guys,

So this is my first grow and is has been quite a learning curve to say the least. I won't go into all the speed bumps I have had but one that I can't seem to get over is this yellowing. One of my plants has always been yellowing. It is the plant right under my light. It hasn't turned yellow yellow it is just lighter than the rest. I was happy to leave it alone and see what happens. Well I'm starting to get leaves on the bottom that are really yellow now and falling off.

I am using the complete Canna Coco line in Canna Coco. I am following the Canna fees sched to a T with the exception that I add CalMax and use silica as my PH down. My last feed looked like this:

8 Gal of feed made of

68ml of A&B
15ml Rizotonic
75ml Cannazym
75ml boost
1ml silica
40ml CalMax

PH 6.4 PPM 750

I took a few pics of a couple of leaves and refrenced a leaf guide and It looks to me to be either a Mag Def or a Nitrogen Def.

I have a feeling that following the Canna guide to the letter is probably not going to work out as good as it could be. Can someone help me figure out what is going on with this plant and also help me dial these nutes in a little better??

 

[soserthc1]

Take the plant out and flush it and feed a higher dose of nitro - appears to be in early flower might have a nutrient lock and not be in taking the chems correctly - and what is the white flakes all over .....

SoSer

 

[Funkstarfish]

hard to tell in these pics. i think the white flakes are water spots catching reflection duder.

First thing i notice is you are watering at pH 6.4 in coco. drop that down some. i water in coco closer to 5.7 as my pH always rises from here. lowering pH will help with uptake of N and other nutrients as the pH rises.

I also notice you are using more enzyme and boost than you are nutrient. I dont know the canna feed line, but this seems odd that you would use more enzyme and boost than nutrient? maybe look into that? maybe thats fine? Last thing I would look at are temps. low temps could have this effect.

 

[Seamaiden]

Hi guys,

So this is my first grow and is has been quite a learning curve to say the least. I won't go into all the speed bumps I have had but one that I can't seem to get over is this yellowing. One of my plants has always been yellowing. It is the plant right under my light. It hasn't turned yellow yellow it is just lighter than the rest. I was happy to leave it alone and see what happens. Well I'm starting to get leaves on the bottom that are really yellow now and falling off.

I am using the complete Canna Coco line in Canna Coco. I am following the Canna fees sched to a T with the exception that I add CalMax and use silica as my PH down. My last feed looked like this:

8 Gal of feed made of

68ml of A&B
15ml Rizotonic
75ml Cannazym
75ml boost
1ml silica
40ml CalMax

PH 6.4 PPM 750

I took a few pics of a couple of leaves and refrenced a leaf guide and It looks to me to be either a Mag Def or a Nitrogen Def.

I have a feeling that following the Canna guide to the letter is probably not going to work out as good as it could be. Can someone help me figure out what is going on with this plant and also help me dial these nutes in a little better??

Ok, I don't use formulaic feeding, never used Canna feed or guides. But I can tell you what *I* see and you can work from there. I'd also like to discourage folks from removing affected leaves for photography, but instead get a white light onto the entire plant and get as many pix of the affected areas in situ as possible. Because WHERE the deficiency occurs is key to diagnosis.

Now, the deficiencies I can see from what you've posted. In no particular order: P- (reddened/purpled petioles, leaves turning too dark a green, leading to brown spots and necrosis of affected leaves). Possible Mg- (lower leaves only! Interveinal chlorosis [aka yellowing] leading to a green 'halo' appearance, as it progresses margins begin to turn brown, and finally necrosis).

If it's a N-, you're going to see the bottoms yellowing, including through the veins and leaf margins. What I see has an interveinal appearance, which suggests less N-.

I am in Funkstar's mind, get that pH DOWN, 6.4 is a soil feeding pH, not a coir feeding pH. For me it should range from 5.8-6.2, with occasional forays outside those ranges. If the pH isn't in the proper range it won't matter how much feed you push, the plants will not be able to utilize it.

I haven't heard of using any silica product to bring pH down, only up. I've only ever used silica to bring pH up. What are the numbers of the CalMax, and what's it derived from? In my experience growing in coir, the mixed Ca/Mg products have a poor ratio of Ca:Mg, usually around 3:1, whereas I've found far better results getting into the range of 6:1 Ca:Mg. Your problems could be as simple as dropping pH and adding more Ca.

Ca is the most difficult mineral to manage in coir cultivation, IMO. This is because it's immobile and because coir 'locks' onto it so readily, especially if it hasn't been properly precharged.

 

[Prime C]

6.4 is too high. Lowering it will prob fix your prob.

 

[newfarmer]

Take the plant out and flush it and feed a higher dose of nitro - appears to be in early flower might have a nutrient lock and not be in taking the chems correctly - and what is the white flakes all over .....

SoSer

The white flakes are water droplets, I had just sprayed them before I took the pics. Probably shouldn't have done that sorry. I would consider flushing but I have recently flushed them due to a stupidly high feeding I gave them by accident about 2 weeks ago. So I am reluctant to flush again because they are under a screen and I have no way of getting the waste water out. Other than turkey bastering them out for an hr.

First thing i notice is you are watering at pH 6.4 in coco. drop that down some. i water in coco closer to 5.7 as my pH always rises from here. lowering pH will help with uptake of N and other nutrients as the pH rises.

I also notice you are using more enzyme and boost than you are nutrient. I dont know the canna feed line, but this seems odd that you would use more enzyme and boost than nutrient? maybe look into that? maybe thats fine? Last thing I would look at are temps. low temps could have this effect.

Wow!! I really thought and have been adjusting my pours to between 6.3 - 6.8 Well I'm sure that isn't helping at all. SO shoot for 5.7?? The enzyme thing was kinda a fluke. I was giving them a low dose feed because they had been recently burned and in the feed guide for boost is gave a range ie. 60-120ml all the other enzymes and supplements are as per their grow guide for a light feeding. This is part of why I don't think this guide is working very well for me.

 

[newfarmer]

Ok, I don't use formulaic feeding, never used Canna feed or guides. But I can tell you what *I* see and you can work from there. I'd also like to discourage folks from removing affected leaves for photography, but instead get a white light onto the entire plant and get as many pix of the affected areas in situ as possible. Because WHERE the deficiency occurs is key to diagnosis.

Noted and will do a better job of photographing the whole story with leaves intact from now on.

Now, the deficiencies I can see from what you've posted. In no particular order: P- (reddened/purpled petioles, leaves turning too dark a green, leading to brown spots and necrosis of affected leaves). Possible Mg- (lower leaves only! Interveinal chlorosis [aka yellowing] leading to a green 'halo' appearance, as it progresses margins begin to turn brown, and finally necrosis).

If it's a N-, you're going to see the bottoms yellowing, including through the veins and leaf margins. What I see has an interveinal appearance, which suggests less N-.

I am in Funkstar's mind, get that pH DOWN, 6.4 is a soil feeding pH, not a coir feeding pH. For me it should range from 5.8-6.2, with occasional forays outside those ranges. If the pH isn't in the proper range it won't matter how much feed you push, the plants will not be able to utilize it.

I haven't heard of using any silica product to bring pH down, only up. I've only ever used silica to bring pH up. What are the numbers of the CalMax, and what's it derived from? In my experience growing in coir, the mixed Ca/Mg products have a poor ratio of Ca:Mg, usually around 3:1, whereas I've found far better results getting into the range of 6:1 Ca:Mg. Your problems could be as simple as dropping pH and adding more Ca.

Thank you very much this is very valuable information. I need to learn to look at my plants the way you do. It is a bit difficult having just started out to recognize these problems as there starting and not just after I'm well into it and it's as plain as day.

The CalMax is 2-0-0 I took a look on the bottle and it just broke down the % or Calcium, Iron, & Mag It didn't actually say what it was made of.

I compleetly miss spoke about the Siilica I use it to raise my PH not lower sorry.

So based on this information I am thinking that my first move should be to go and make another feed with the proper PH, hit them with it and see what happens? Maybe increase the CalMax a bit?? What do you think??

 

[Funkstarfish]

you are on the right track.

heres how i feed in coco and maybe its a good way and probably there are better ways. I aim for an EC level, not something mL of this and something mL of that. So I get my source water and pH down some as its already too high. I know my calmag and main nutrient will also pull pH down some, so I go to about 5.9, knowing it will continue to drop. then I add my calmag product at around 2mL per gallon. Then I begin to add my nutrient and add enough to reach the desired PPM or EC (0.6 to 1.2 in veg and 0.8 to 1.6 in flower). I check pH at this point and if it dropped a touch low, i add silica product to get it back to 5.6 or 5.8 somewhere in there. its been bubbling while i mix, so is aerated and ready to feed.

If i water a tea in, I am fine watering a tea in at 5.8-6.2pH. teas are how i "flush" my media every so often. never flush plain water in coco, it throws your nutrient ratios out of whack. instead flush with a kelp tea or with a root cleaner or pest controller like SM-90. its not a flush per say, just a low salt feed to balance salts out some. then you get the benefit of a beneficial enzyme or bacteria in your schedule and add it while taking a break from salt.

hope this all helps. There are better ways than mine, mine is just one that is working so far.

It gets easier

 

[newfarmer]

heres how i feed in coco and maybe its a good way and probably there are better ways. I aim for an EC level, not something mL of this and something mL of that. So I get my source water and pH down some as its already too high. I know my calmag and main nutrient will also pull pH down some, so I go to about 5.9, knowing it will continue to drop. then I add my calmag product at around 2mL per gallon. Then I begin to add my nutrient and add enough to reach the desired PPM or EC (0.6 to 1.2 in veg and 0.8 to 1.6 in flower). I check pH at this point and if it dropped a touch low, i add silica product to get it back to 5.6 or 5.8 somewhere in there. its been bubbling while i mix, so is aerated and ready to feed.

If i water a tea in, I am fine watering a tea in at 5.8-6.2pH. teas are how i "flush" my media every so often. never flush plain water in coco, it throws your nutrient ratios out of whack. instead flush with a kelp tea or with a root cleaner or pest controller like SM-90. its not a flush per say, just a low salt feed to balance salts out some. then you get the benefit of a beneficial enzyme or bacteria in your schedule and add it while taking a break from salt.

That was awesome man. That was exactly what I was hoping someone would put up and help me out with. I have a couple of questions about this. My pots have visible salt build up on the outside of the bottom of the pot. Is this normal? Also how ofter would you say that you "flush" your plants? I noticed that when you flush them you do it at a higher PH why is that?

"Flushing" my plants is a huge pain in the ass for me. I am using geo pots on trays under a Scrog so I'm sure you know what I'm getting at. I'm suffering through this run and then actually going to put the whole works up onto a slanted water sealed table so I can run them right through and collect the waste at the bottom of the table. Ahh Hind sight!!

 

[newfarmer]

Oh yeah I forgot to ask. I live close to the ocean so could I just go and grab some Kelp and boil that shit up or should I use a store brand?

 

[Funkstarfish]

When i say "Flush" i mean water with a very low nutrient solution as normal, not flush a ton of water through your media. I've not tried cloth pots yet so not sure about that salt buildup issue.

I guess the reason i water my flush at higher pH is that i don't have to add any or as much pH down. When lowering pH during a feed, I'm trying to ensure a full range of pH during that feed cycle, knowing the pH will rise. My tea flush is still in acceptable pH range, but if its higher, its just because I don't want to add as much stuff to it, i want to flush the stuff out. and its really not a flush, still water to your normal 15 to 30% runoff. in veg ill sort of ramp up thne fade down my EC... this schedule sort of takes care of salts. you start low EC, then ramp up, then drop back down, and ramp up again, small increments, not huge changes.

Don't take my shit as gospel bro, keep doing research. I was a decent gardener 5 yrs ago, but I'm rusty, and just relearning all this again myself.

as far as grabbing kelp from the ocean, google it, you can use it, it requires rinsing the sea salts, etc etc. it doesn't have to be a kelp tea, it could be alfalfa, or worm casting, or nettles, or comfrey, or a whole bunch of teas depending on what you want to achieve and what you have on hand while lowering overall salt buildup.

I hope this makes sense, was at a friends trimming some headband, and my head is all banded...

 

[Seamaiden]

The build-up you're seeing could be fertilizer salts built up, or minerals in the water, I think it's likely both. I'm not going to add more here because I agree with what Funkstarfish has posted, especially with regard to 'flushing'.

Also, I'm not sure you can just boil up some kelp, I think some kind of enzymatic action is needed. I personally would treat it like a plant juice extract.