Problems with Starts & Veg. PLEASE help!!

[Max Frost]

Also, the non structured bud issue you mentioned before is a classic ph fluctuation result in flower.

No shit??!!! Well...that would seem to be yet another hint smacking me in the face, huh? Yep...time to pull out the back-up meter! (This is exactly why I HAVE back-ups)! I knew a time would come when I'd need a new one and wouldn't be able to afford it! Sure enough, right here at Christmas time...the brokest time of the year! haha! I'll let y'all know if there is a discrepancy or not. Thanx again!!!

 

[Max Frost]

Hey Big B....

Quick "Q": My big bluhzbx2blu x rom recently started showing what I thought was an N-. You corrected me and said it was a P def. Could the pH fluctuations cause this as well? Is it possible that ALL the issues I've been seeing are really different manifestations of the same cause??? WoW! If so, fixing this should have a MAJOR positive impact!!

 

[Big Buddy]

Hey Big B....

Quick "Q": My big bluhzbx2blu x rom recently started showing what I thought was an N-. You corrected me and said it was a P def. Could the pH fluctuations cause this as well? Is it possible that ALL the issues I've been seeing are really different manifestations of the same cause??? WoW! If so, fixing this should have a MAJOR positive impact!!

Yup, if your ph is off your plant cant process the nutes properly, and in flower it will almost always show as p def. If the issues were only the ones in flower id say just jack up your p, but since its all over its a wider issue so too speak.
If thats where the ph is you can just flush with that and keep an eye on the ph of the run off. And remember you can test 10 brand new meters and they could all have a different reading, the shit ones they sell us for 200 don't do the same thing as a 20 000 dollar laboratory equipment type dealy, so expect it to read a bit different as well. Id prefer to just switch to the new one myself, compare them of course, but if theres a new one just put the other in storage worst case scenario.
Also all you need to mix soil is a big storage container, and just store your guanos and everything on top, no more space than havinga bail of soil around really, and mix a half bail at a time. I have 0 faith in ccommercial premix soil like ocean farm, or whoever else makes one. If I didnt mix it, I dont know whats in it. Mixing takes up no space really, and better to lose a foot of comfort space than 5 months of work I say

 

[Big Buddy]

And when I say big storage container I mean one of the 4x2' plastic things from wallmart for like 20 bucks. You can mix a half bail at a time

 

[ZONER]

Thanks Z! I Googled that and sure enough you're right on the money! I also ran across allot of threads where other growers are having issues with FF soils! Hmmm!!! Apparently it's redwood bark from the west coast plant and pine bark from the SC plant! WTF is SO MUCH bark doing in either one??? Bad FF...bad!!! Thanx again bro! Best, -Max :wacky:

Bark to a grow medium is like Italian seasoned bread crumb in meatballs ...... Just a cheap filler. And in The Cackalackies ........ Christmas tree farms abound.

 

[Max Frost]

Yup, if your ph is off your plant cant process the nutes properly, and in flower it will almost always show as p def. If the issues were only the ones in flower id say just jack up your p, but since its all over its a wider issue so too speak.
If thats where the ph is you can just flush with that and keep an eye on the ph of the run off. And remember you can test 10 brand new meters and they could all have a different reading, the shit ones they sell us for 200 don't do the same thing as a 20 000 dollar laboratory equipment type dealy, so expect it to read a bit different as well. Id prefer to just switch to the new one myself, compare them of course, but if theres a new one just put the other in storage worst case scenario.
Also all you need to mix soil is a big storage container, and just store your guanos and everything on top, no more space than havinga bail of soil around really, and mix a half bail at a time. I have 0 faith in ccommercial premix soil like ocean farm, or whoever else makes one. If I didnt mix it, I dont know whats in it. Mixing takes up no space really, and better to lose a foot of comfort space than 5 months of work I say

Man, ain't that the truth! Hadn't thought of doing it like that. I was thinking back to my kiddie pool days..lol! I'll take your advice and switch meters and see if that helps! Man, Big B. If this turns out to be the cause of all my recent issues...it's gonna be GREAT to find a solution this simple! It ought to really make a diff in the production dept. too! :D

What would you're ideal mix be? Do you use the same mix for starts thru flowering?

Thanks again so much! (And if you're still using the voice-to-text app...it seems to be working great!)

 

[Max Frost]

Bark to a grow medium is like Italian seasoned bread crumb in meatballs ...... Just a cheap filler. And in The Cackalackies ........ Christmas tree farms abound.

I've often wondered why there is so much bark in the happy frog. Roots can't grow thru it...they have to grow around the bark pieces. It seems like a mix that is recommended for starts would be more porous. Is their ONLY purpose in using it as a filler?

lmao...yeah bro...It's Christmas tree country all around the mountains. You can't swing a dead cat without getting hair on somebody's trees! I'm betting tho, that most of the bark comes from those tall, skinny-ass Carolina pine trees! Some of the posts I saw about folks having probs with the FF soils now are blaming the new plant too for changing things up. I also saw some talk of FF recycling soils, with peeps finding un-decomposed roots (and lots of them) in the soil bags. I haven't had that prob. If I opened a bag and found roots...I'd go off on somebody's ass! lol! I've always been a huge fan of most things Fox Farm. I hope they don't let the bean counters and marketing dickheads ruin a good product line. They already put a good scare into me with the whole "Kangeroots vs Microbe Brew" fiasco. There's a couple of products built via the marketing machine, IMO!

 

[Big Buddy]

Man, ain't that the truth! Hadn't thought of doing it like that. I was thinking back to my kiddie pool days..lol! I'll take your advice and switch meters and see if that helps! Man, Big B. If this turns out to be the cause of all my recent issues...it's gonna be GREAT to find a solution this simple! It ought to really make a diff in the production dept. too! :D

What would you're ideal mix be? Do you use the same mix for starts thru flowering?

Thanks again so much! (And if you're still using the voice-to-text app...it seems to be working great!)

actually I typed the last few but it still working OK and yup I do the same soil mix the whole way through the exact one that I sent in p.m. If you want to post it here you're welcome to.

 

[Max Frost]

For anyone interested, here is Big Buddy's soil mix recipe...(reposted from PM by permission):



Its the last one down, different bags than up here, but they started shipping it here for me basically and everyone started using it for everything, its a white bag and says special blend. But anyway, last one down the page, you can delay your first few feeds a bit but I dont tend to, I dont mix heavy though. So in 1/2 bail of that I mix about 10 liters of worm castings, a good handful of dolomite lime, if you have shrimp compost or something like that its nice too but not a necessity, and about 3/4 to a liter of both veg and flower guano, and mix really well. Then do things as you normally do. For seeds dont do any mixing except for dolomite, and clones can go right in the full mix, they love it. And dont mix any other base soils, just mix exactly like I said there and your fine. And obviously, yes its soiless after having said all that

Thanks Big B.! It sounds like a great mix!

 

[Big Buddy]

And by up here I mean my town, not all of Canada or some crazy shit.

 

[Max Frost]

Thanks again Big B.! It looks like all those ingredients should be easy to source! Here's a better shot of my bluhaze clone. I had thought this was nute burn, but maybe it's connected to the pH issue. Which does it look like to you? (This is about the same place on the plant where it showed up on the Skywalker Kush also). Looks pretty sad, huh?

 

[Big Buddy]

Ive seen worse for sure, but remember its hard to pull one back that far into flower, and when you get the ph fixed be patient with all of the plants, it'll take a few days. If it were burn it would show consistant across the plant, the random placement shows in the p def, which judging from overall room issues is from ph, and the runoff being so low shows towards that as well

 

[Don Peppy]

Also been noticing the extra bark in my HF.. Sometimes I have to pick them off the top of the soil.. They seem to block the seedlings from popping up.. There some pretty big pieces I've seen lately.. Shame on them..

 

[ZONER]

I've often wondered why there is so much bark in the happy frog. Roots can't grow thru it...they have to grow around the bark pieces. It seems like a mix that is recommended for starts would be more porous. Is their ONLY purpose in using it as a filler?

lmao...yeah bro...It's Christmas tree country all around the mountains. You can't swing a dead cat without getting hair on somebody's trees! I'm betting tho, that most of the bark comes from those tall, skinny-ass Carolina pine trees! Some of the posts I saw about folks having probs with the FF soils now are blaming the new plant too for changing things up. I also saw some talk of FF recycling soils, with peeps finding un-decomposed roots (and lots of them) in the soil bags. I haven't had that prob. If I opened a bag and found roots...I'd go off on somebody's ass! lol! I've always been a huge fan of most things Fox Farm. I hope they don't let the bean counters and marketing dickheads ruin a good product line. They already put a good scare into me with the whole "Kangeroots vs Microbe Brew" fiasco. There's a couple of products built via the marketing machine, IMO!

Hey Max just for shits n giggles if you have some ocean forest laying around does that FF soil have as much bark in it as the happy frog?
As for the bark ..... hardwood mulch is more PH alkaline, mulch is great to place around your flower beds, it retains moisture and suppresses weeds. If mulch was beneficial to plants do farmers mix it into their soil ? Also FF's might not be composting it long enough to break it down further ...... Who knows ? But $$$$ talks Brother, $$$$ talks.
I think this year I will plant in straw bales outdoors .... I'll show them ....... I don't need no pine mulch ..... :)

 

[BushyOldGrower]

I quit using ocean forest and I prefer Pro Mix HP because it's sterile and won't burn young plants like happy frog might. Liquid karma? I am not familiar with that.

Looks like you are on the track of your problems. Bog

 

[Max Frost]

Ive seen worse for sure, but remember its hard to pull one back that far into flower, and when you get the ph fixed be patient with all of the plants, it'll take a few days. If it were burn it would show consistant across the plant, the random placement shows in the p def, which judging from overall room issues is from ph, and the runoff being so low shows towards that as well

Thanks so much, pal! I REALLY appreciate you (and everybody) taking the time to help me out with this. I have been majorly stumped! As soon as I thought I had it figured out...the symptoms would change up and it would like like something else! You pointing out that the pH swings would make them show different defs at different times really makes me feel better! I was REALLY beginning to doubt myself!

It just thrills me to know this is NOT burn I've been seeing. I really didn't understand how it could be. My soils were "burning" most of my plants at some point in the grow before I ever fed them. So glad to know it's pH problems instead!

I've got the back-up pH meter hydrating for 24 hours before I can use it. Tonight I'm going to clean my probe really well on the old one and recalibrate and take readings again. Thanks again Big B!!!

 

[Max Frost]

Also been noticing the extra bark in my HF.. Sometimes I have to pick them off the top of the soil.. They seem to block the seedlings from popping up.. There some pretty big pieces I've seen lately.. Shame on them..

Yep...me too, D.P.! It seems the bark pieces have gotten much larger and there's much more of it! Overall, the Happy Frog seems much different than when I was using it in the past.

Has anyone tried Fox Farms Light Warrior mix? They advertise it as being for germs and starts. Anyone know anything about it?

 

[Max Frost]

Hey Max just for shits n giggles if you have some ocean forest laying around does that FF soil have as much bark in it as the happy frog?
As for the bark ..... hardwood mulch is more PH alkaline, mulch is great to place around your flower beds, it retains moisture and suppresses weeds. If mulch was beneficial to plants do farmers mix it into their soil ? Also FF's might not be composting it long enough to break it down further ...... Who knows ? But $$$$ talks Brother, $$$$ talks.
I think this year I will plant in straw bales outdoors .... I'll show them ....... I don't need no pine mulch ..... :)

Yeah Z., I checked and the Happy Frog seems to have more bark with larger pieces than the Ocean Forrest. Haha...you'll teach them! Go for it bro!

 

[Max Frost]

I quit using ocean forest and I prefer Pro Mix HP because it's sterile and won't burn young plants like happy frog might. Liquid karma? I am not familiar with that.

Looks like you are on the track of your problems. Bog

Hi BOG,

Thanks for dropping in bro! Yeah, I think Big Buddy et al have me on the right track now. I used to use the ProMix Bx and had good success with it. Seems like I may have mixed it with the Ocean Forrest when I used it...I can't remember now. How is the HP mix different? I think you told me you used FF Grow big as veg nutes. Is that all you do for veg is the Big Bloom in the ProMix? Thanks in advance. Best, -Max

 

[ZONER]

Thanks so much, pal! I REALLY appreciate you (and everybody) taking the time to help me out with this. I have been majorly stumped! As soon as I thought I had it figured out...the symptoms would change up and it would like like something else! You pointing out that the pH swings would make them show different defs at different times really makes me feel better! I was REALLY beginning to doubt myself!

It just thrills me to know this is NOT burn I've been seeing. I really didn't understand how it could be. My soils were "burning" most of my plants at some point in the grow before I ever fed them. So glad to know it's pH problems instead!

I've got the back-up pH meter hydrating for 24 hours before I can use it. Tonight I'm going to clean my probe really well on the old one and recalibrate and take readings again. Thanks again Big B!!!

MAX YOU SHOULD ALWAYS KEEP YOUR PROBE CLEAN ....... NEVER KNOW WHEN YA MIGHT GET LUCKY ...... YA STUD MUFFIN' YA .....Lol .:smug:

HAPPY NEW YEAR MAX .....