Prop 19 Could Flicker Out

[Seamaiden]

Why is this in the Colorado forum...? :?

 

[mendel]

Why is this in the Colorado forum...? :?

Weirdly enough, some are inately curious about what goes on in the world outside of Colorado.

 

[Jarofunk]

Why is this in the Colorado forum...? :?

the passage of Prop 19 would have affected the lives of those posting in the CO forum... as if enough of them aren't here already

 

[true grit]

Why is this in the Colorado forum...? :?

Because at this point we have a more organized MMC, Grow Op, Patient system than Cali that does not need the opportunity for more regulation like Dick Lee would have opened up with that can o worms...

 

[LocalGrowGuy]

I wonder why there is no money. I wonder where it went.

ANY WONDER WHY CALIF. IS GOING BROKE?

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Those are just the As. The rest are below the fold.

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from http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com/archives/15764-California-state-agencies.html#extended

 

[Seamaiden]

Yeah, we should get rid of the ENTIRE University of California system, for sure. And the Cal State system, too. And the community colleges. And state parks. And social services.

Yep. We should just get rid of them all. <rolling eyes>

 

[Jarofunk]

awesome post Localgrowguy, just sent it to a couple buddies in Cali... pretty much sums it up

 

[CelticEBE]

Yet they say nothing about Prop 23 which IMHO will destroy this State. You wanna know why Cali is broke? Because Arnold sucked as a Govenor.....because the bleeding heart liberals feel that going green is more important than jobs. Thats why.....not because we didn't pass you're beloved Prop 19.

THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN!

 

[Mr.Sputnik]

OMG, I'm so glad to be in Colorado....

 

[Green Mopho]

You wanna know why Cali is broke? Because Arnold sucked as a Govenor.....because the bleeding heart liberals feel that going green is more important than jobs. Thats why.....

No, its because we live in a debt based monetary system based on scarcity that is built on a fundamentally flawed foundation of corporatized intellectual property rights and crooked bank loans that actually drive our "industry". The gov't built a framework so that corporations will benefit from moving labor to other nations with much cheaper labor rates, giving them tax breaks and legal monopolies, while then in return inflates the currency, reduces the money supply, and retracts the "credit availability" of citizens, small businesses, and municipalities. This is all done with the intention of "shaking down" and reducing the middle class as much as possible. You can blame the liberals or the conservatives, but its really everyone that doesn't see the big picture, and instead of doing something about it, we bicker among ourselves. Its not the Democrats or Republicans, because both are bought quite easily by lobbyists, the IMF, the World Bank, the World Trade Organization, the United Nations, NATO, and most importantly, the owners of us all...The Federal Reserve...

 

[motherlode]

^^^

what GM said - that and cali was broke when the gubernator took over - not saying he didnt suck as gov - but still

 

[Seamaiden]

Sorry, I disagree with that. Humans have been using 'money' for millenia, the banking system was thought up hundreds of years ago and DAMN if I want us to go back to, what, bartering? Yeah, let's take a huge step backwards in time and evolution. Not for me, thank you.

Yet they say nothing about Prop 23 which IMHO will destroy this State. You wanna know why Cali is broke? Because Arnold sucked as a Govenor.....because the bleeding heart liberals feel that going green is more important than jobs. Thats why.....not because we didn't pass you're beloved Prop 19.

THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN!

Shit was sucking loooong before the Governator took office. He just got to watch is grow our debt.

I'd really like to know what you think about having a constitutional convention and really changing the way California governs herself. The initiative process IS going to kill this state (read some great articles yesterday on this subject).

How'd you like the two props about redistricting, for instance? Not tied together really, unless you read them closely and realized that if you voted yes on both you were nullifying your own vote, same with voting no on both. And the thing is that it's very often like this in this state, with how initiatives/propositions are worded, they can be very confusing.

And to go along the rant lines, and to do a wee bit of disagreeing--remember when gas was hitting close to $5/gal? Remember the proposition that came up that was gonna put a per-barrel fee on all wells that pulled 10 barrels/day or more, and how that fee would have gone towards R&R of alternative energy and building infrastructure (how are we all gonna drive electric cars with two fucking plugs in the whole state?? Hydrogen?)? Do you remember that one?

Opponents were saying it was going to raise fuel prices through the roof, which wasn't the truth at all. What it *was* going to do was put California in line with the other major oil-producing states (Alaska, Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, and now I forget the other one) because they all have the same type of fee structure, and, get this, they pay lower fuel prices than we do! Hell, we even have our own processing plants, yet we still pay some of the highest fuel prices in the nation.

Californians--do you think they read it before resoundingly voting against it? That was purely a vote for the voter's wallet, 'green' had nothing to do with it, future-thinking had nothing to do with it, that was ALL about the here and now. Had that passed we would have a source of income that would allow development of newer technologies and that all-too-important infrastructure, which would have put US in the position of having a few more jobs, not to mention needing less petroleum.

I love discussing politics, but most people can't be fucking arsed to READ.

 

[ScuzyRoach]

Right on SeaMaiden regarding the gas/oil issues. If the people thought our budget was fucked w/ the Governator sitting up on the hill just wait. He was our only saving grace using his veto power. Hopefully Jerry wont rubber stamp everthing the democrats want to spend. IMHO the state workers unions and a rediculous housing market are what got this state into major problems. Hell whatever happened to the lottery money for schools? more taxes will only result in more spending.
If prop 19 was written correctly and allowed an open/free market for growers than i probably would have backed it and lined up to pay my taxes. Playboy had figures showing the estimated money generated regarding marijuana and other cash crops. the figures are staggering. Caif. MJ $13.85 Billion, Vegatables $5.67 billion, Grapes $2.61 billion. With these numbers i could see how MJ could get us out of debt if properly taxed. But no, fucking Lee and his cronies were only worried about their damn Oakland indoor bullshit. Too damned greedy and scared to compete on an open market.

 

[Green Mopho]

Sorry, I disagree with that. Humans have been using 'money' for millenia, the banking system was thought up hundreds of years ago and DAMN if I want us to go back to, what, bartering? Yeah, let's take a huge step backwards in time and evolution. Not for me, thank you.

I didn't mean get rid of money all together. But our current money system is based on debt and scarcity. We need a money system that is actually backed with a real and stable value, like gold. The idea of "credits" for example can work, but that "credit" shouldn't be something that is owed to someone.

If you took all the US currency in circulation and paid it towards the national deficit, there still wouldn't be enough money out there. That is because our current money is based on debt, and this has only been the case since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. The act was designed to avoid stock market crashes and recessions/depressions, but we've had at least 4 major recessions. By some accounts, like the NBER, there have been 19 recessions since 1913. Its those that control the money supply that seek to profit...that is the root of the problem. If money ACTUALLY was a representation of existing and usable resources available for trade, we would only have recessions when resources ran out, instead we have recessions for no reason that the upper class profits from, meanwhile killing a true middle class. Fractional Reserve banking is the issue, and this hasn't existed very long. Its too confusing and esoteric for most people, and even most politicians don't understand it.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvMWmxOyMF0[/YOUTUBE]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_fractional-reserve_banking

Critics of fractional reserve banking claim that since money creation requires loans from the banking system, people are required to go into debt in order for any new money to be created. They assert that this can debase the means of exchange. While there is no controversy over the fact that the commercial banking system expands the money supply, critics find it problematic that banks "create money out of nothing."[citation needed]
Some commentators, like debt-focused critics including Stephen Zarlenga, Lew Rockwell and Murray Rothbard, link together fractional-reserve banking, central banking, and government-enforced "paper" or fiat currency as negative features of modern monetary systems. They argue that fiat money and the practice of fractional reserve banking does not impose a natural limit on the growth of the money supply, and that this causes inherently unsustainable bubbles in asset and capital markets, which are vulnerable to speculation.[7][8][9][10][11][12] These commentators often use the term "debt-based monetary system" to refer to an economic system where money is created primarily through fractional-reserve banking techniques, using the banking system.[5]
There are individuals, even within such groups as the Austrian school, that reject the notion that fractional reserve banking is inherently destabilizing and that full-reserve banking is the appropriate solution. One such Austrian thinker, Steven Horwitz, argued that full-reserve banking would impose similar costs of price adjustments in reaction to growth (through a reduction in the overall price level) as would inflation, and hence offer no inherent advantages over fiat currencies and fractional reserve banking.[13]
One argument posits that since debt and the interest on the debt can only be paid in the same form of money, the total debt (principal plus interest) can never be paid in a debt-based monetary system unless more money is created through the same process. For example: if 100 credits are created and loaned into the economy at 10% per year, at the end of the year 110 credits will be needed to pay the loan and extinguish the debt. However, since the additional 10 credits does not yet exist, it too must be borrowed. This implies that debt must grow exponentially in order for the monetary system to remain solvent.[11]