Put plants outside as a last resort. Now what?

[elusiveshame]

They are in middle of garden away from windows. They’ve been outside for about 2 months. If you want to read the sad story it’s in my previous posts but basically I was going to trash them and put them outside as a last resort.
A previous poster indicated that because I put them outside at a weird time (fall not spring). They’d grow and how until the days get shorter in October and then go into flower. He said they’d get huge. He suggested bringing them inside where I can control the light (I have neon light) but he didn’t specify what pattern to use.
Thanks for all the help!

Then you could maybe try a week with 18/6 then go down to 12/12.

Maybe it’s possible they know daylight is increasing daily now they won’t flower because they know they have time.

Just make sure to keep your temps and humidity in range :)

 

[RootsRuler]

Before anything STOP. Decide the order that you need to move in to successfully fulfill your goals. As I'm reading I'm seeing OP doing the same thing reading suggestions and jumping on them doing too much too fast. I could be wrong and I apologize as I'm not trying to come off as a RICHARD but, before anything set up your environment. You're in SoCal so your day/night temps will keep you relatively in the zone you want them to be in. Since you're near the coast your humidity is probably also fairly close to range. Your plants should be fine where they are currently unless the evening gets too cold.

Clean out the shed if need be and run any power you need to it if you don't already have power in there. Set your timer to 12 on 12 off. Your on time should start around 7pm and lights off at 7am. The reason you want to turn your light on in the evening is so that the cooler temps will be warmed by the light in the shed which should keep your plant in the green zone as far as temperature. Electric rates are also cheaper at night. If light leaks from the shed at night and you're afraid you'll be able to see it from the street you can try and seal up the light leaks or run the light during the day time but if day temps hit 75 it'll get warm in the shed with the light on. Once you have your shed environment set up move your plant into the shed and continue as normal.

You've already exposed your plant to a shorter time frame so you're already on your way to flower. Do the above and the plant(s) will see flower pistil formation in about another week if you've had them outside in the shorter light exposure for a week now.

I would also suggest you purchase a hygrometer to monitor the environment inside the shed. As you progress on your weed journey you'll want to do some upgrades like a humidifier and dehumidifier to control the humidity levels in the shed. You may need an exhaust fan to exhaust the air inside the shed if it gets too hot or too humid but with winter here you should be ok for now with the ambient levels. Flower these plants and then come back and talk to us about setting up a system for higher yield and quality!

Charts to help guide you. If there's something you don't understand SEARCH FIRST but if you don't find the answer there are many on this site that are more than qualified to answer your question. Feel free to ask!

 

[bibsoconner]

@RootsRuler @elusiveshame Not sure what "Richard" means, but if the general idea is that you're giving too much instruction or something like that, trust me when I say: any and all advice is much appreciated! Doesn't matter if it's been said before or contradicts someone else or if you have to be harsh with me! So, where we are at is I've had these guys outside for approximately 2 months. As you can see they look pretty healthy! I put them outside because they were at death's door (see previous pictures) so I had nothing to lose. I've been informed (and correct me if you disagree) that these guys aren't going to flower for a long time (October?) because the days are getting longer (even though we are at only 10 hours of daylight right now) and so the plants say to themselves "we'll keep on growing until we perceive the days are getting shorter". This is actually fine and I'm not that worried about pesky neighbors. However, at least one person on this forum thought it was a bad idea as the plants would be taller than me. I'm not sure if that's the only objection and if it's valid. The suggestion was to bring them inside and somehow convince them to to go into flower mode. I assumed (perhaps incorrectly!) that I needed to bring them inside, boost the light to 18/6, and then after some time (how much time?) reduce to 12/12. I'm certainly open to other ideas! It even occurred to me that perhaps I could bring them inside and reduce light to 8 hours only since they are currently at 10. What do you guys think? I could just leave them outside (note I'd probably need a much bigger pot or put in ground). I have 2 big plants and 1 small so I could even try different things. Note that @RootsRuler is suggesting 12/12. I'm not sure how this will get them to flower as they are already only getting ~10 hours of light per day courtesy of the sun. I would have thought (but I'm a complete Novice!) that we'd need to bump up the light significantly and then signifantly decrease light. Maybe 18/6 for 2 weeks followed by 12/12? .
I think I'm set with minimal stuff if/when I bring them inside. I have light, fan, and can leave door open for ventilation. Basically, I have an area of the garage I've just dropped tarps from, forming a small tent area. Yes, it's not perfect and there is light loss. I have a mister bottle to increase humidity. I was already misting outside. Somebody else suggested fabric pots. They are pretty cheap on Amazon. What size? 5, 7 gallon? Remember the two big plants are already over 2 feet tall!
As far as your charts, I'd seen the first one before. I have no idea what it's saying! Is it trying to say how much of each element is in different types of soil? I can say that our soil tends to be moderately high alkaline. As is our tap water which is why rain water is such a god send!

And I should say I'm taking my time before changing anything. I'd like to read these forums and get a good understanding what I'm doing before making a move. I figure the plants of been outside for 2 months. A couple more weeks won't hurt. And we are getting more rain next week. As I said, rainwater, as opposed to tap water, really seems to do wonders. Not just for pot, but for all plants.
Thank you both!

 

[RootsRuler]

OK....lemme clue you in on a few basics so that you have a better understanding of how it works.

As far as light schedule, for a photoperiod seed, meaning a seed that gets its flowering signal from the amount of sunlight it gets, anything less than 12 hours of sunlight will trigger a hormonal response in the plant to begin flowering. Why is that? When daylight shortens it signals the plant that winter is coming and it needs to make seed to drop before first frost so that it can continue the life cycle come next spring. While the DIRECT sunlight may not last more than 12 hours the ambient light is enough to not trigger the hormonal response. This is why your plants have been outside but have not flowered yet. The days are rapidly shortening so I would imagine that they're probably about ready to start flowering. The beauty of indoor gardening is that you don't need to rely on the suns schedule to flower your plants. You can do that by artificially lowering the amount of light the plant gets kicking off the flowering response.

So here's how light scheduling breaks down. From seedling to end of the vegetative period you want to keep the plant in at least 18 hours of direct light to mimic spring and summer conditions. This is the period in which you are growing the branches and leaves to support the flowering stage. When you decide you've grown your plant to the size that you want you can reduce the amount of direct light to 12 hours to mimic fall and winter conditions which should trigger the hormonal response to produce flowers.

Depending on how long it takes for you to set up your shed your plants may begin to flower but either way it will begin to flower with the shortening of the day. Yes, you can move them into the shed at whatever stage of flower growth you may already have. The important thing is that they are consistently seeing these light times.

BTW Richard is a different way of saying "Dick"....

I see that you also have a garage space so, yes, you can set up your garage with just tarps and plastic sheeting although it's going to be tougher to shut out the light as these plants want almost total darkness when dark time comes. Nothing brighter than a full moon. You mentioned the cost of a tent but I can tell you that the cost will pale in comparison to how much easier it will be to control your environment.

Fabric pots? 5 or 7 doesn't really matter. Really depends on how long the plant will be in the pot before you harvest but 5 gallon should be fine.

As far as the charts....

The first chart tells you at what PH level cannabis will take up that particular nutrient ion. The 3 basic ions or fertilizers is Nitrogen(N), Phosphorous(P), Potassium(K). The others on the list are trace elements and minerals the plant needs to thrive. I'm assuming if you aren't familiar with this chart you also aren't PHing your feed water? To maximize growth you want to feed your plant it's food at the PH where it's most available for that stage of its growth. This will require you purchasing a PH and EC meter. The PH meter will measure the PH of your nutrient solution while the EC meter will tell you how much nutrient ion you have in the water.

Chart 2 tells you how high you want to hang your indoor light so that you don't burn the plant or place it too far away.

Chart 3 tells you the optimal range of light energy/photons/Umol you want to give your plants at the stage of growth that they are at.

Chart 4 tells you the optimal humidity range for the temperature in your environment. This is called Vapor Pressure Deficit.

Google basic plant biology so that you understand the processes a plant goes through in its life cycle. Also google VPD to learn about what that means and how it affects your plants. There's probably a really good tutorial on both here on the Farm. Search will get you some great info.

 

[bibsoconner]

Thanks @RootsRuler You've given me a lot to digest. I'm actually a little surprised that the plants haven't started flowering. Perhaps they will if I drag my feet some more and do nothing. I can say that, in California, the winter solstice was Dec. 21st, 2022, so the days are actually getting longer right now. They'll keep getting longer until June 21st, 2023. I was figuring the plants internal clock is saying "hey, days are getting longer. I should keep in veg stage even though the amount of daylight is short right now. Better times are coming!" Hence my ideas about dragging them inside, changing to more light hours for a while, and then reducing. The cool thing is that I have 2 big plants and 1 small one so I could experiment and try a few things. I kid you not, I was about to toss all of these plants a few months ago. I could for example, just leave one in the garden and see what happens.
I'll check out the PH and EC meters. You are correct I'm not checking ph of the water. In fact, I've followed the advice on this forum and drastically cut back on watering. I believe that was one of my early rookie mistakes. I've mostly just been using natural rain water. I do have a mister bottle filled with tap water that I use to mist with. I was told that raises the local humidity and is worth doing. I have not added ANY nutrients yet. I find this area a little confusing. If you have advice or an article on "adding nutrients for dummies" I'd appreciate it. I'm looking for advice like "buy this and add x amount for each gallon of pot", perhaps with "take this measurement first".
The soil I'm using is FoxFarm Ocean Forest which others on this forum have indicated is pretty good. I was also under the impression I didn't need to add nutrients for several weeks with this soil although, clearly several weeks have passed!
Thanks again!

P.S. I should have said, that ambient light is a possibility I guess. They are not near windows, but I am in the subhurbs so there are street lights, cars going by, etc. But I wouldn't think it's more than most other urban folks. Perhaps I'll try to take some more pictures of them in their outdoor environment.

 

[RootsRuler]

No need to run a longer, then, shorter day. If you want to flower them setup your indoor environment and put them under a 12 hour light schedule. It is important that your dark period is total or almost total darkness. You should start to see flowers within a couple weeks.

Rain water is good but with as many pollutants that are in the air I don't like to feed rain water unless they're outdoors. If you have an RO system at home use it as your base water. If you are using tap water, fill a 5 gallon bucket of water and let it sit for a day or two to evaporate the chlorine.

Nutrient recipes are a highly subjective topic. Some like to use a varied concoction of micro and macro nutrients and amendments that they feel will supercharge their plant and flower growth. I try and keep it simple

Floranova Grow - The nutrient formula for your seedling up to flower phase of growth. You want to feed 1/4 of what the feed charts the maker recommends at seedling and increase your PPM(Parts Per Million) of nutrient in the water as your plant increases in size and requires more nutrient to continue its growth.
Floranova Bloom - Same as the grow formula but set up for the flower period of your plant.
Hormex - B vitamin supplement along with growth regulators
Advanced Nutrients Cal/Mag - Calcium, Iron and Magnesium supplement
Protekt Silicate - Agricultural silicate for strengthening branches and leaves

Bud Candy the first 6 weeks of flower.

It is important that you learn what each of these does so I would encourage you to check out the library on this site for additional info as it has tons of great information for you to learn and advance your grow knowledge.

 

[elusiveshame]

The days are rapidly shortening so I would imagine that they're probably about ready to start flowering. The beauty of indoor gardening is that you don't need to rely on the suns schedule to flower your plants. You can do that by artificially lowering the amount of light the plant gets kicking off the flowering response.

Just one correction: the days are increasing daylight as of December 21st, not decreasing. The days will begin decreasing on June 21st :P

 

[RootsRuler]

Fox Farm Ocean Forest is good soil.

For watering use the light pot method. When you know your plants need water pick up the pot and feel how light it is. Whenever you want to know if your plants need water just pick up the pot and the weight will tell you. Typically in a 5 gallon cloth pot your feed intervals will be around 3 -4 days.

 

[RootsRuler]

Just one correction: the days are increasing daylight as of December 21st, not decreasing. The days will begin decreasing on June 21st :P

Yeah...sorry about that. I should have said that typically outdoor growers plant in early spring and harvest in late october so, yeah, you are correct. The days are actually getting longer not shorter when they harvest.

 

[bibsoconner]

@RootsRuler @elusiveshame Thanks again. I'll try and get everything setup this weekend, but don't worry, I'll take your advice and not rush into it. I'm curious to see it flower with 12 hours of artificial light. Again, this is more light that they are getting now! It's an unusual situation. As you point out, you usually plant outside in early spring. It's only because I was about to trash these plants that they ended up outside in November.
If nothing else this is all great practice for the next run(s). Come early spring (March?) I really do want to plant some plants outside. Free light!
I assume by "Library" you mean the "Lean" section at top. I've already started poking around there. If there are any particular articles (especially about nutrients ) please point them out. Otherwise I'll continue to look around.

 

[RootsRuler]

@RootsRuler @elusiveshame Thanks again. I'll try and get everything setup this weekend, but don't worry, I'll take your advice and not rush into it. I'm curious to see it flower with 12 hours of artificial light. Again, this is more light that they are getting now! It's an unusual situation. As you point out, you usually plant outside in early spring. It's only because I was about to trash these plants that they ended up outside in November.
If nothing else this is all great practice for the next run(s). Come early spring (March?) I really do want to plant some plants outside. Free light!
I assume by "Library" you mean the "Lean" section at top. I've already started poking around there. If there are any particular articles (especially about nutrients ) please point them out. Otherwise I'll continue to look around.

LOL! Let me save you some time and grief by saying nutrient recipes are highly subjective so you probably won't get the same answer from different people. This is an area where you really need to develop your own grow style and the nutrients that you feel help your plant.

My perspective is you don't need much to have beautiful bountiful flowers. As long as you can balance all the factors that go into growing cannabis you'll have a very successful harvest. Others will tell you their 20 part recipe is what they've had most success with so they follow it.

I would also think about what your end goal is here. Are you trying to have a perpetual supply of flower or are you just messing around seeing what this is all about? For a perpetual supply of weed you're going to need to learn how to rotate crops and time your plantings along with taking care of plants that are at different stages in their development. That's why right now it's best you learn how to take a few plants to harvest then you can start thinking about how you want to use the new found knowledge you have.

Yes. There are threads explaining a lot about how this works. I suggest you go poking around and start asking questions. I gave you a basic primer that touched on a few of the many subjects that pertain to a successful harvest. Start there and learn what works for you and your grow style. Learn what the basic nutrient ions, NPK, do and at what stage of growth in the plants life they most benefit the plant. Learn what the micronutrients do and why they are needed. Also try and learn how to spot issues like disease, nutrient deficiencies, pests, etc. Catching these early is key if you want your plants to survive and produce lots of sticky potent flower.

I've found that most first time growers that are methodical in their approach tend to have successful harvests.

 

[bibsoconner]

Ok @RootsRuler or anyone following this. I need your help! I should probably just fess up and say I don't understand the chart about distance from light to plant at all! Can you give me a little help reading it?
My light is BLOOM PLUS LED Grow Light BP 1000W (which I'm told is really 90W??!!) So is my wattage 90 on the horizontal axis? My plant is currently 24" tall and I think we agreed it's not flowering (so vegetative?). If I'm reading it correctly, if I put the light 18" away (light green line), I'd be fine?
I'm also concerned that if I should use 90W on the horizontal axis, for the flower period, I won't have enough light even if I put it 12 inches away. Is that correct? Maybe recommend a (cheap :)) light that will handle veg and bloom and more than one plant please. I understand some are adjustable as far as watts.
I've attached some pictures. DON'T PANIC. I haven't started growing inside yet. I just wanted to show you what I have so far. My fabric pots haven't arrived, and I'm thinking maybe I should take advantage of one more rain storm coming Tuesday. In these pictures, the plant is about 24" tall. The light is 36" from top of plant. I can adjust the light down though. I'm slightly worried that I won't be able to adjust the light upwards enough if the plant grows a lot. The way it's setup out of the box, it hangs 14" from the ceiling. I could probably fix that to get myself some more room. The total height of my homemade tent is about 6'2".
Again, this isn't the final setup. To the extent I understand the chart, my light should be 18" away from plant, not 36". But I'd like to hear from you guys!
I hope these guys made it. I'm biased, but to my mind they look beautiful. Very green. And they also smell beautiful. I've also attached some close-ups. I'm still wondering if they are already budding. Again, I'm use to smoking buds not growing them.
Thanks!

 

[JadedMarxist]

They're already flowering put them in your shed at 12/12.

Your defeating yourself. Slow down.
Step 1 get shed set up with light and light proof it also. Don't worry about fans or exhaust yet just get room set up.
Timer on 12 12 any hours you like but 12 on 12 off then piy your babies in the shed.

Done!! Easy water when the top 2 inches of soil are dry get some basic fertilizer for flowering plants use half of what it says to use every 2nd watering just water every other watering and in 6-8weeks bud

 

[JadedMarxist]

The very knowledgeable guys here, are giving you too much info at once. Again there right but not with your experience level. The light distance is easy put your hand at the top of your plant if you can feel heat then it's to close.

 

[JadedMarxist]

Sorry for the spam but they should be in bigger pots. But to keep it simple and not have them herm if leave them now your to far into flowering and yes you got flowers 100%

 

[JadedMarxist]

May even be to late looks like they hermed

 

[bibsoconner]

Thanks @JadedMarxist . I'm guessing "hermed" is short for "hermaphrodite". I Google'd various articles about feminized seeds going "hermie". Again, I found contradictory info. Some articles said it was impossible if the seeds are feminized from a reputable source. Others said it could happen due to various types of stress (light, water, pests, etc.). My seeds are Cream & Cheese CBD 1:1 Feminised Seeds from Seedsman. I also have a smaller White Widow feminised seed from Seedsman that I'm not showing in my most recent pictures.

Questions:
1) What in the pictures makes you say they've gone "hermie"? And how can you tell they are flowering/producing buds?
2) I can still smoke them if I understand the articles correctly. Just lower yield?

I was going to put in 5 gallon fabric pots before putting in shed. Pots just came in yesterday. Do you still think 12/12 light schedule in the shed? In fact, they're only getting about 10 hours of natural light in garden right now. I'm in Southern California where the days are short now but getting longer slowly.
Soil is FoxFarm Ocean Forest. I've added no nutrients thus far.
Thanks!

 

[elusiveshame]

Feminized seeds can “hermie”. They won’t contain male dna but will provide female pollen.

Not sure where he’s signs of hermaphroditism, maybe some of the flowers look a little off?

You’re definitely flowering though.

You can still smoke it if they did hermie. You may have seeds, it may be less potent, but you can still smoke it 100%

 

[JadedMarxist]

As elusiveshame said you can still smoke hermed buds. In your last set of pics see where you have the little lines of purple the white hairs those are buds.

Many reasons plants turn herm don't trust feminized seeds because they were most likely made with a hermi plant to begin with. Photos usually take more stress before herming.

The biggest factor on Herming plants are due to light leaks during the dark period.

My advise is get them in your shed on a 12/12 light schedule asap. Keep things simple.

 

[bibsoconner]

Here's my setup. I brought one big one inside, and left one outside. You'll notice the one outside is a little droopy (to my mind). This seem to happen right after I did the transplant. The other big guy is fine. I'm not sure if it was the transplant or the fact we got a lot of rain right before I transplanted them.
The small pot inside is a seedling I'm trying to sprout. 7 days thus far and nothing. I put the seed directly in soil as I was advised the paper towel method is too advanced. Something about killing the seedling when transferring from paper towel to pot. I could try and recover the seed and put in paper towel. Doubtful if I can find it though. It's pretty small and is an Alaskan Purple Auto Feminised Seed from Seedsman.
Hours I'm running light are 12 midnight to 12 noon. Fan on/off throughout the day for a total of 12 hours. This is the first day they've been inside.

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