PWM on clones, Will i ever be able to eradicate it?

[KingTubby]

My temps overnight this time of year can drop to the low 50s

There's your problem right there. Keep it above 60 (preferably closer to 70F) and you won't be fighting a losing battle.

 

[tango.hotel.charlie]

i use apple cidar vinegar foliar drench for an infestation. 3 tbspn per quart and drench that shit. once you get rid of it use wetted sulphur once a week all the way up to harvest, has worked for me. onnce u get in check u really need to get your environment together. high temp and humidity swings will get u everytime. pm is everywhere. in the dirt, the exhaust filters, the carpet, your clothes, shoes, etc. u get the idea, no matter how much u clean its there. control the swings

 

[Effendi]

PM is systemic, it's like plant herpes. The clones and any plants grown from them will be susceptible to it.

I'd kill them, bleach everything, and start over. PM is no joke.

PM is NOT systemic. There are a couple of honest responses to this comment. Amazed that you would type such an ignorant, uninformed falsehood as though it's true. if you had spent just a moment researching PM, you would KNOW it's not systemic.

No matter what the master growers tell you, look up the very word mildew and see if the powdery kind is vascular. It's not.

I have tried every conceivable PH changing combo over the years and settled back down on Safe Green Anti-fungal.

PM is NOT systemic. If it re-appears, it's because there are dormant spores on the material surface already.

.PERIOD.

Carry on. :)

 

[Kanzeon]

PM is NOT systemic. There are a couple of honest responses to this comment. Amazed that you would type such an ignorant, uninformed falsehood as though it's true. if you had spent just a moment researching PM, you would KNOW it's not systemic.

No matter what the master growers tell you, look up the very word mildew and see if the powdery kind is vascular. It's not.

I have tried every conceivable PH changing combo over the years and settled back down on Safe Green Anti-fungal.

PM is NOT systemic. If it re-appears, it's because there are dormant spores on the material surface already.

.PERIOD.

Carry on. :)

And if you had read the article that I linked before commenting, you'd realize that science has not proven whether or not PM is systemic.

 

[Effendi]

Hey Kanzeon, Kind of like global warming huh?

Whenever someone chooses to disregard scientific fact because the truth does not fit into their bubble of belief, they always say, "Facts are still out, science is still undetermined". lol.

Science HAS proven that PM is NOT systemic. If you try to state otherwise, it's because you either really don't understand OR you simply do want to accept the facts.

For the rest of the regular producers out there, Listen to this person and believe that the rest of the growing world just "Doesn't know yet" OR actually study cultivation and understand how a mildew spore is produced, how it spreads and where it can live.

scientific answer...... NOT systemic.

Carry on.

 

[Kanzeon]

Hey Kanzeon, Kind of like global warming huh?

Whenever someone chooses to disregard scientific fact because the truth does not fit into their bubble of belief, they always say, "Facts are still out, science is still undetermined". lol.

Science HAS proven that PM is NOT systemic. If you try to state otherwise, it's because you either really don't understand OR you simply do want to accept the facts.

For the rest of the regular producers out there, Listen to this person and believe that the rest of the growing world just "Doesn't know yet" OR actually study cultivation and understand how a mildew spore is produced, how it spreads and where it can live.

scientific answer...... NOT systemic.

Carry on.

You realize that you're not an authority on PM, right? If you're going to come on here and argue, at least have the awareness to link to something scientific that corroborates your point.

Oh wait, you can't because there's nothing that proves that PM is not systemic. If you'd tried this new thing called reading before commenting, or at least not acted like a petulant child while disagreeing, then this would have the potential to be a fruitful discussion. As is, I don't respect you enough for your opinions to matter to me.

The best we can do is "we don't know," I'm sorry that apparently hurts your delicate sensibilities enough that you feel the need to attack people online?

 

[Aqua Man]

PM is not PM. There are many many many different kinds and species are usually specific to a plant or family of plants. Some species are not systemic and some are.

Contrary to what most think, your at a bigger risk with warm dry conditions than humid. The ideal situation is hot dry days and cool humid nights. This gives the PM ideal conditions for both germination and spore dispersion.

I often wonder why this product is not used to treat a wide variety of fungal and bacterial infections. It's amazing in hydro and seen it cure root rot many times.... and it's not even designed for hydro, omri and cheap af.

GARDEN FRIENDLY FUNGICIDE – Southern Agricultural Insecticides, Inc.

southernag.com

 

[Aqua Man]

Decent read on it but there is a ton more info out there if ya dig a bit.

Powdery Mildew Diseases

Dean A. Glawe, Plant Pathologist, Emeritus , WSU Gary G. Grove, Plant Pathologist and Extension Plant Pathologist, WSU Powdery mildews rank among the most...

pnwhandbooks.org

 

[Effendi]

You realize that you're not an authority on PM, right?

lol.... actually. You don't have to be an authority to speak a fact. It's a Black and white point. It's either systemic or it is not.

It is Not.

If you're going to come on here and argue, at least have the awareness to link to something scientific that corroborates your point.

not even necessary. You can tell me that the world is flat all day long, and link to 50 articles arguing and proving your point.
No matter what you say, no matter how many articles you post proving your position, you are wrong.

PM is not systemic....ever. in any plant or any mildew or any scenario.
There have been many massive studies regarding pm in regards to the wine industry. It is a Mildew. Not systemic.

Oh wait, you can't because there's nothing that proves that PM is not systemic.

lol...OK, you're right. a double negative is always the easy one to prove.

MAY IF I TYPED IN ALL CAPS< YOU WOULD BE MORE IMPRESSED THAT I'M RIGHT. :)

If you'd tried this new thing called reading before commenting, or at least not acted like a petulant child while disagreeing, then this would have the potential to be a fruitful discussion. As is, I don't respect you enough for your opinions to matter to me.

It's called a Cognitive BiaS. The Dunning Krueger effect.

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a hypothetical cognitive bias stating that people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability.

So instead of actually tying, {Is PM systemic?) into Google and ...what was it you said?...O yea FUCKING read a little.... You default into.... "We just don't know".

And absolutely NO ONE gives a fuck how much you respect anyone else. You look like a total troll with comments like this....

The best we can do is "we don't know,"

Actually only YOU...don't know. cause you're heavily invested in throwing out a plant rather than fixing it cause you don't know how. noob.

I'm sorry that apparently hurts your delicate sensibilities enough that you feel the need to attack people online?

yawn.... I didn't attack you, I just said you are WRONG. Instead of taking 5 minutes to find out that PM is not systemic, you just say things like "None of us really know"....lol....:)

Well, turns out we DO know. because we took a minute to READ and BELIEVE science....well some of us anyway.

Enjoy the day.

Demosthenes..

 

[Aqua Man]

lol.... actually. You don't have to be an authority to speak a fact. It's a Black and white point. It's either systemic or it is not.

It is Not.



not even necessary. You can tell me that the world is flat all day long, and link to 50 articles arguing and proving your point.
No matter what you say, no matter how many articles you post proving your position, you are wrong.

PM is not systemic....ever. in any plant or any mildew or any scenario.
There have been many massive studies regarding pm in regards to the wine industry. It is a Mildew. Not systemic.



lol...OK, you're right. a double negative is always the easy one to prove.

MAY IF I TYPED IN ALL CAPS< YOU WOULD BE MORE IMPRESSED THAT I'M RIGHT. :)



It's called a Cognitive BiaS. The Dunning Krueger effect.

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a hypothetical cognitive bias stating that people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability.

So instead of actually tying, {Is PM systemic?) into Google and ...what was it you said?...O yea FUCKING read a little.... You default into.... "We just don't know".

And absolutely NO ONE gives a fuck how much you respect anyone else. You look like a total troll with comments like this....



Actually only YOU...don't know. cause you're heavily invested in throwing out a plant rather than fixing it cause you don't know how. noob.



yawn.... I didn't attack you, I just said you are WRONG. Instead of taking 5 minutes to find out that PM is not systemic, you just say things like "None of us really know"....lol....:)

Well, turns out we DO know. because we took a minute to READ and BELIEVE science....well some of us anyway.

Enjoy the day.

Demosthenes..

It is not black and white... WPM is many different species. Sorry but you are wrong. Like with almost anything in cannabis growing, over simplification is the problem. It is dependant on species responsible for the infection.

At the very least I would isolate and treat it giving plenty of time to confirm or deny if that particular species is systemic or not... if this cannot be done then IMO cut it, burn it, burry it or all of the above and treat the remaining plants. I would not add anything new until it's confirmed to be gone.

What you fail to realize is what I pointed out in my first post... PM is not PM there are tons of species. The PM that affects grapes is not likely and in fact highly doubtful to be the species that affect cannabis

 

[Effendi]

PM is not PM.

?????

There are many many many different kinds and species are usually specific to a plant or family of plants. Some species are not systemic and some are.

hmm, I'll give you ONE POINT for that sentence. there are plant specific species of PM however NONE are systemic.

Contrary to what most think, your at a bigger risk with warm dry conditions than humid. The ideal situation is hot dry days and cool humid nights. This gives the PM ideal conditions for both germination and spore dispersion.

2 points for this one. The first is opinion, Probably correct, but if you have your VPD nailed, there is no such thing as too high a humidity. 2 and 3 are spot on. I'll only add that the germination and dispersion you speak of is all a physical action on the surface of the leaf. Nothing internal involved.

I often wonder why this product is not used to treat a wide variety of fungal and bacterial infections. It's amazing in hydro and seen it cure root rot many times.... and it's not even designed for hydro, omri and cheap af.

GARDEN FRIENDLY FUNGICIDE – Southern Agricultural Insecticides, Inc.

southernag.com

It absolutely IS, by people like you and I who know. basically the same "Safe" product I posted earlier.

OK, Gents, let me break this down in Engrish for the board. The reason why so many "growers" like myself claimed for so many years that PM was systemic is because I just ASSUMED that far from having what I thought was an absolutely clean room for any given period of time, only to experience PM at some point. Since I "Know" my shit was clean, I profess that it MUST be systemic since I am convinced the surface was clean.

That is backwards thinking. You can't prove a theory based on inaccurate information.

The spores that infected my room whenever.....came from other spores. Maybe not off the surface of the leaf I thought I knew was clean. But they came from somewhere. And if they came from the surface of the leaf, then they were sitting down in the cracks just waiting for the proper environment to spawn and show.

If you have an ongoing (Decade) continuous grow like I have, that spore might be a year old from last winter, just sitting on the top of a light, waiting for the fan to blow it on a new perfectly clean leaf in order to start the 7 day count to manifestation.

To suggest that they are systemic would mean that you think that PM can flow through the veins of the leaf like blood/water and just come to the surface at convenience. This does not make sense.

Just think about it a minute, if you understand photosynthesis and how a plant works, then you would come to the conclusion that PM is a convenient/inconvenient spore that can only sit and wait for the environment to get perfect for it to grow.

Last but not least. If you see PM on a leaf, the spore has been there and activated at least a week before you saw it.

A week of "hot dry days and cool humid nights" and bob's your uncle.

PS. PM is Not systemic. :)

Demo

 

[Effendi]

It is not black and white...

It really is. Either it's systemic or it's not.

WPM is many different species.

You are correct.

Sorry but you are wrong.

The exact quote I stated to a PH'd at UC DAVIS who has a doctorate in such studies.
I had written what you stated for 30 years because I just KNEW my experience was truer than Science.

It took a few hours of beating me over the head with facts (rather than experience) to make me see common sense.

Turns out you are right, I WAS wrong. and Now you know that you're wrong as well. :)

But not to worry. You seem to understand enough to deal with it even if you don't really fully understand it. Good job!!

Like with almost anything in cannabis growing, over simplification is the problem. It is dependant on species responsible for the infection.

Fair enough, I've only ever grown pot.

At the very least I would isolate and treat it giving plenty of time to confirm or deny if that particular species is systemic or not... if this cannot be done then IMO cut it, burn it, burry it or all of the above and treat the remaining plants. I would not add anything new until it's confirmed to be gone.

again, fair enough.

What you fail to realize is what I pointed out in my first post... PM is not PM there are tons of species. The PM that affects grapes is not likely and in fact highly doubtful to be the species that affect cannabis

lol...OK. Since we are talking about Cannabis, PM absolutely IS PM. This isn't a discussion about herpes coming from koala bears, this is about PM on POT. my earlier mention of the grape industry was only because that due to the grape industry and the significant losses occurred, they actually gave enough of a fuck to find out EXACTLY. And yes, the pm on grapes is not the pm on pot.

But, spore this or spore that. NO PM is systemic. If you understood what a spore actually is and what mildew actually is, you wouldn't try to argue that I'm just wrong.

No PM is systemic, not in marijuana and not in grapes or anything else.

:)

 

[Aqua Man]

hmm, I'll give you ONE POINT for that sentence. there are plant specific species of PM however NONE are systemic.

I would say that's not been proven and new species or adaptations happen all the time. We can agree to disagree here. There is no absolute that any species that may infect cannabis cannot be systemic. Likewise I will say there is not conclusive evidence of a species that infects cannabis that is systemic. So IMO treat an unknown as worst case.

2 points for this one. The first is opinion, Probably correct, but if you have your VPD nailed, there is no such thing as too high a humidity. 2 and 3 are spot on. I'll only add that the germination and dispersion you speak of is all a physical action on the surface of the leaf. Nothing internal involved.

I can't count how many times I see VPD used improperly of these dam internet charts. The real issue is not so much the VPD but the microclimates that can vary greatly from the suggested or ideal values.

As far as internal I can agree that with spore creation and dispersion is not an internal process however does require the absorption of nutrients from the plant to produce them. Also that you can transfer without spores simply by using infected tools or direct contact.

 

[Aqua Man]

It really is. Either it's systemic or it's not.



You are correct.



The exact quote I stated to a PH'd at UC DAVIS who has a doctorate in such studies.
I had written what you stated for 30 years because I just KNEW my experience was truer than Science.

It took a few hours of beating me over the head with facts (rather than experience) to make me see common sense.

Turns out you are right, I WAS wrong. and Now you know that you're wrong as well. :)

But not to worry. You seem to understand enough to deal with it even if you don't really fully understand it. Good job!!



Fair enough, I've only ever grown pot.



again, fair enough.



lol...OK. Since we are talking about Cannabis, PM absolutely IS PM. This isn't a discussion about herpes coming from koala bears, this is about PM on POT. my earlier mention of the grape industry was only because that due to the grape industry and the significant losses occurred, they actually gave enough of a fuck to find out EXACTLY. And yes, the pm on grapes is not the pm on pot.

But, spore this or spore that. NO PM is systemic. If you understood what a spore actually is and what mildew actually is, you wouldn't try to argue that I'm just wrong.

No PM is systemic, not in marijuana and not in grapes or anything else.

:)

Species of PM are often lumped together. So no there is not only one species that affect cannabis

 

[Effendi]

So wow, I was just bored and looked in on this board for the first time in 5 years.
Didn't mean to have to drop facts but, it's what I do. :)

Haven't been out and about since the Greenthumb and pot became legal in WA.

I guess I really have missed threads like this.

Keep strong and grow on.. :)

Demo

 

[Aqua Man]

Interesting study here... particularly the part on bacillus amyloliquefaciens contained in southern ag fungicide.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07060661.2020.1836026

 

[Aqua Man]

So wow, I was just bored and looked in on this board for the first time in 5 years.
Didn't mean to have to drop facts but, it's what I do. :)

Haven't been out and about since the Greenthumb and pot became legal in WA.

I guess I really have missed threads like this.

Keep strong and grow on.. :)

Demo

Hey originally I think you came off a little strong but you make some good points and without these discussions none of us learn. So no harm no foul... I enjoy the debates for my own knowledge... the biggest mistake one can make is thinking they know it all. So I try to keep an open mind

 

[Effendi]

I can't count how many times I see VPD used improperly of these dam internet charts. The real issue is not so much the VPD but the microclimates that can vary greatly from the suggested or ideal values.

lol, at least you are aware of the term. :) used improperly? hmmm. OK lets use YOUR words then. If one is incapable of creating and maintaining the micro climates that will vary from ideal, then skip the chapter on VPD, especially since it is often used improperly. :)

As far as internal I can agree that with spore creation and dispersion is not an internal process

So there it is, back to the first FACT stated. PM is NOT systemic.

:)

 

[Aqua Man]

lol, at least you are aware of the term. :) used improperly? hmmm. OK lets use YOUR words then. If one is incapable of creating and maintaining the micro climates that will vary from ideal, then skip the chapter on VPD, especially since it is often used improperly. :)



So there it is, back to the first FACT stated. PM is NOT systemic.

:)

I was speaking in the creation of spores and transmission... not the infection in the plant. I believe it is entirely possible and even likely there is a species that can cause a systemic infection of a plant.

In terms of vpd leaf temp is absolutely crucial in calculations. Without these you have a very inaccurate calculation of the actual VPD

 

[Kanzeon]

lol, at least you are aware of the term. :) used improperly? hmmm. OK lets use YOUR words then. If one is incapable of creating and maintaining the micro climates that will vary from ideal, then skip the chapter on VPD, especially since it is often used improperly. :)



So there it is, back to the first FACT stated. PM is NOT systemic.

:)

He says, still without actually posting a link corroborating any claims. It's cute that you think you should be taken seriously. Despite what you may think, typing random words in caps doesn't add gravitas to your argument, it just makes it look copied and pasted from a chain email.

Also I was working on an organic farm when you started growing the one singular plant you have an idea of how to grow. Maybe calm your tits instead of coming in and being sensitive about being wrong.