Question about lighting cycles

[MIMedGrower]

My room on average yielded 5 lbs from 4 1k sodiums, but running 480 + 640 +480 watts worth of LED (480 watts worth being chinese junk led's) & a 1k sodium I yielded 6 lbs.. so with me 4000 watts = 5 lbs....but with 2600 watts (480 of again being kinda of junk & 1000 being sodium) I got 6lbs right off the bat with no dialing in at all.. those are the facts & it has only gotten better with dialing it in!

Thats more what i expected. 20-25% yield increase for the same watts.

 

[maximusluminous]

I don't need to have any idea about how much you have studied this. I want to see independent studies backing more specifically Mean-Well's claim of such high efficiency at 100% power. Then I will believe you because I think you have been misled.

there are 98% efficiency drivers out there now but again only when at full power, you think meanwells high #'s are actually if you are running it dimmed? you think thats how it works? Here is a 320 watt driver & it's 94% efficient but only if you run it at 240 watts? lol.. sorry but that would be blatant false advertising, the drivers get less efficient when being dimmed & it is fact that no one disputes in the LED industry

 

[maximusluminous]

Thats more what i expected. 20-25% yield increase for the same watts.

do you realize many things when dimmed can still use the same power because dimming eats power? when people dim their home incandescent lights back in the day they thought "im saving $$ on electricity" but they never were because the dimmers back in the day used more power than they saved ya...lol

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

Thats more what i expected. 20-25% yield increase for the same watts.

Ahhh but for a commercial grower that 20-25% yield increase = increased profits at the same utility cost. That would be significant to their bottom line. That's not an issue for you because I'd put you more in the realms of a craft grower, trying to grow the absolute best plant you can ... maximize it's genetic potential. It's not all about the pounds you pull. It's about the quality you grow.

 

[MIMedGrower]

do you realize many things when dimmed can still use the same power because dimming eats power? when people dim their home incandescent lights back in the day they thought "im saving $$ on electricity" but they never were because the dimmers back in the day used more power than they saved ya...lol

I never use my dimmers. They mess up bulb life and sometimes performance. I keep my lamps up high and use plant stands to keep things proper. I would do the same with led.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

there are 98% efficiency drivers out there now but again only when at full power, you think meanwells high #'s are actually if you are running it dimmed? you think thats how it works? Here is a 320 watt driver & it's 94% efficient but only if you run it at 240 watts? lol.. sorry but that would be blatant false advertising, the drivers get less efficient when being dimmed & it is fact that no one disputes in the LED industry

"Up TO" doesn't mean that it runs at 94% efficiency. It means under the best conditions it may provide you those results. While I don't dispute Mean-well drivers as being high quality drivers, I do dispute some of what you state is really opinion as fact.

We can do this all night, but unless you can provide me with 3rd party verification, I am very skeptical of your claims.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Ahhh but for a commercial grower that 20-25% yield increase = increased profits at the same utility cost. That would be significant to their bottom line. That's not an issue for you because I'd put you more in the realms of a craft grower, trying to grow the absolute best plant you can ... maximize it's genetic potential. It's not all about the pounds you pull. It's about the quality you grow.

Well i have patients counting on me.

But you are right. I am all about plant potential. I even grow 12 week plants all the time. No greed here. Even though its my job now.

 

[maximusluminous]

Ahhh but for a commercial grower that 20-25% yield increase = increased profits at the same utility cost. That would be significant to their bottom line. That's not an issue for you because I'd put you more in the realms of a craft grower, trying to grow the absolute best plant you can ... maximize it's genetic potential. It's not all about the pounds you pull. It's about the quality you grow.

I getter better trichs under lower ppfd, 800 ish works best for trichs for me, there is a trade off, quality vs max yield, I have always realized this & I shoot for more quality rather than blockbuster yields in weight. 10 years ago I was all about yield only, I have moved well past that now tho!

 

[maximusluminous]

Well i have patients counting on me.

But you are right. I am all about plant potential. I even grow 12 week plants all the time. No greed here. Even though its my job now.

another thing is LED's make plants eat sooo much more nutes, HPS plants can not take what the LED plants can take, not at all. and bloom nutes are not a good choice IMO either, they do much better with veg nutes the whole run with plenty of calcium!

 

[MIMedGrower]

"Up TO" doesn't mean that it runs at 94% efficiency. It means under the best conditions it may provide you those results. While I don't dispute Mean-well drivers as being high quality drivers, I do dispute some of what you state is really opinion as fact.

We can do this all night, but unless you can provide me with 3rd party verification, I am very skeptical of your claims.

Seems operating temperature impacts all the numbers a lot with led. Migro showed a 5-7% loss the first year for diodes. Hotter running lamps more loss. If those numbers continue degrading through a few years all the led companies have exagerated a lot about life and efficiency.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I getter better trichs under lower ppfd, 800 ish works best for trichs for me, there is a trade off, quality vs max yield, I have always realized this & I shoot for more quality rather than blockbuster yields in weight. 10 years ago I was all about yield only, I have moved well past that now tho!

I just move the plants lower from the light during ripening. Best of both yield and quality like that.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

Seems operating temperature impacts all the numbers a lot with led. Migro showed a 5-7% loss the first year for diodes. Hotter running lamps more loss. If those numbers continue degrading through a few years all the led companies have exagerated a lot about life and efficiency.

LED life is long ... usable life may not be quite so long. That part I don't know ... but your statement rings true to me.

 

[MIMedGrower]

another thing is LED's make plants eat sooo much more nutes, HPS plants can not take what the LED plants can take, not at all. and bloom nutes are not a good choice IMO either, they do much better with veg nutes the whole run with plenty of calcium!

That last part is true under any light.

Also hps are not all equal. I have more and more natural light out of my solis tech ballasts than i did with the same bulbs using galaxy. Yields and quality went up some with the change. Also the room is easier to look at.

 

[MIMedGrower]

LED life is long ... usable life may not be quite so long. That part I don't know ... but your statement rings true to me.

Well if 5% loss per year after 5 years it would be way past time to replace. And half the life they promise.

Bet its true. ;-)

 

[FourthCity]

dimmers way lower the efficiency of LED drivers so you are flushing system efficiency down the drain when dimmed. my best led drivers are 94% efficient but that efficiency only comes with 100% power. at say 70 % power my driver runs at 85% efficiency.. hmmm see the issue???? The more its dimmed the more efficiency you are losing, might as well use HPS!

What does this chart say about dimming the photo boost strips you use?

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

Well if 5% loss per year after 5 years it would be way past time to replace. And half the life they promise.

Bet its true. ;-)

I have LEDs so I guess I'll see. I will say this, nothing lasts forever and I doubt my lights do either. However after a couple of years, who is to say that technology in either LEDs or some other unknown lighting area might force a person to upgrade if they really want the best of the best.

Some of the higher end LEDs are already offering software tune-able spectrums. Where this goes will only improve. This could force even the most stubborn HID grower to begin to switch out lights. lol

 

[maximusluminous]

Well if 5% loss per year after 5 years it would be way past time to replace. And half the life they promise.

Bet its true. ;-)

thats why I went with the 320XL set up by HLG, its the most efficient set up they have at 107 watts per board x 3 boards when their mac daddy 600 watt 4 board light sends 150 watts per board.. their 260xl sends 130 watts per board x 2 boards. I think my 320 will way out last any light they sell & it costs more too per watt.. thats why strips rule, the photoboost strips would only be run at half power, next to no heat thus last forever & a day!

 

[maximusluminous]

What does this chart say about dimming the photo boost strips you use?

What does that have to do with driver efficiency? LED efficiency is another story all together, the 2 are not the same, there is diode efficiency & driver efficiency, we are talking driver not diode efficiency here now

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

What does that have to do with driver efficiency? LED efficiency is another story all together, the 2 are not the same, there is diode efficiency & driver efficiency, we are talking driver not diode efficiency here now

I did like ForthCity's post. It's not off-topic. However, you and I got on the subject of driver efficiency which is indeed different than LED efficiency.

 

[FourthCity]

What does that have to do with driver efficiency? LED efficiency is another story all together, the 2 are not the same, there is diode efficiency & driver efficiency, we are talking driver not diode efficiency here now

Why aren't you talking about both? If you are talking about the overall efficiency of the fixture, dimming decreases driver efficiency while increasing led efficiency, its a trade off with benefits, not just some useless feature light manufacturers have added for no reason.