Question about plant age and cloning/flowering.

[Asiatica]

Ive heard that an MJ plant started from seed need about 2 months to be "Genetically" mature,
so basically should you have to wait 2 months until you are able to flower or take clones from the plant?

Is this true?

Do you have to wait 2 months from germination in order to take clones and/or flower the plant?
And will these plants be a better representation of the genetics?

I know you can flower straight from seed, as Shanti and other top notch breeders have done and shown.
This a technique especially useful for SATIVAS and SATIVA-DOM plants with extended or unusual phototropic light cycles.
But does it affect the overall quality of the flower/end product?

True open discussion please.
All thoughts, opinions, and .02 welcome.

Thanks in advance.
Peace and positive vibes.
:character0050:

 

[CBF]

flowerin from sprout imo doesnt change the final product, all lines have a time to flower gene, so no matter when the flip, there gonna take whatever time it takes to show flowers.

i have found mature plants, i judge by when i see alternatin nodes, produce a bit better then plants flowered before that time. just what i see here. that could all be due to the longer veg time of course. the longer you veg, the more bud, which imo a good big dense rootball produces best.

as for clones, yeah the plant needs to be producin good stalks, not the wimpy spindly shoots.

aka

 

[Zoolander]

I veg mine from seed about 30 dayz and do pretty well with them

 

[Sway]

u know man i was just asking myself this same question, because we all know and its been proven older cannabis plant produce more thc. with that in mind i decided to give my new seedlings 2-3 months before i take cuts off them, even though most are showing sex already and ive weeded out most males. ive heard from some old timers that do this and have done side by side comparison with younger plants, they say its sound and have had better results taking clones from older plants...but not to old of coarse. so thats my 2 cents...let em get a little older, then clone em to death and make a mom out of the best cut. or use the clones to test the seed mom and see what shes worth...then make a mom out of her if she is worthy, this is what i do, only the best get to reside in my mommy room :)

 

[mr green jeens]

genitics dont change . but the the only worth while diferance in a older clone is that a 2 or 3 month clone will respond to light change much quicker .thus making flowering time faster.in some strains up to 10 days faster finishing time... thats my take good luck and smoke sativas....

 

[Charles Xavier]

Greetings

Pleasant discussion so far; for the sake of clarity, my post may distort said pleasantness....

genitics dont change . but the the only worth while diferance in a older clone is that a 2 or 3 month clone will respond to light change much quicker ....mr green jeens

Genetics may not change, but expression certainly does. This relates to the concept of true phenotypic variation i.e. the intersection/influence of environment and/on genotype.

In this one respect Cannabis and Human reproduction is similar: it takes a set time, depending on specific genotype, before girls are able to make babies.

Some girls can reproduce at nine; some at fourteen; most by the time they are sixteen. Who's more likely to have a successful pregnancy?

all lines have a time to flower gene, so no matter when the flip, there gonna take whatever time it takes to show flowers....aka

Succinct and accurate. The girl who is genetically programed to reproduce at fourteen, when molested at nine, will not become pregnant. Continual molestation will not result in pregnancy until her genetically programed time.

What effect does the molestation have? Well, it depends on the individual and her social network i.e. her environment.

The same holds true for the plant. A plant may recover, it may express intersex traits, it may be imperceptibly damaged, etc; it depends on the plant and the environment in which it is cultivated. However, the plant will also most definitely not grow to full potential.

The aspect of phenotype is that it influences genotype. In our example the genetically programed pregnant at fourteen girl may actually be induced to become pregnant at say, twelve, by the influences of her environment (modified foods in Humans; photoperiod manipulation in Cannabis; in some cases molestation triggers the onset of premature reproductive ability, like photoperiod manipulation). Is this a positive?

Sincerely,
Charles.

 

[mr green jeens]

wow xaviar.you dug deeper than i would think most people would..but your spot on.. besides not much to clone off a month old sprout or plant. how ever taking cuts from a one week old rooted clone will make no chang or short commings of final product...taking note the clones mother was at right age.....and not molestde... thanks for the shared insight .

 

[l33t]

Hi Charles,

you have some valid points mate but I have to say I don't agree with all you write.
The human vs plant comparison is a non valid one and should not be used as even though there are some obvious similarities , we are completely different species , and we also have so many differences.. ..hell even different cannabis plants respond so much differently to the environment..So lets not compare things like that cause i believe its meaningless and can get confusing .
Its so much better to stick to observations from actual experience with plants imo.

Now , there are plants that originate from equatorial areas have been adapted to their natural environment for many generations..
there ,the lighting is always 12/12 , throughout all year , (ie see Colombia) , plants there don't get any 'veg' time they just flower when they are ready, hormonally mature and have reached a certain size.

So..I don't see why such genetics wouldn't express their full potential in their natural environment !?
..don't forget if you ask any oldtimer he will tell you the best plants/sativas they 've smoked where such strains from such equatorial areas like Thailand and Colombia..



Asiatica,

You can take clones from plants even from as early as 2-4wks from seed..

now in practice usually if you want to take clones you ideally have sexed the mother/father plant first and then grown it adequately big in veg lighting (18/6) to be able to take later on enough cuts for further growing and/or flowering.
But as I said you can definitelly take clones from early on with no probs.

From my experience potency/flavor is not affected with zero veg time when talking about seedplants or even clones, only differences are structural and in regards to finishing times like aka said earlier.

Genetics will dictate the end result and if you give the plant a stress free life with enough soil/nutes/light it will reach its potential no matter how much 'veg' time(time under 18/6 lighting) it was given.. So grow a plant well and it will not suffer any loss in quality.
I have done tests and saw no differences.
Imho people that complain about quality loss with 12/12 from seed are doing something wrong.Its much easier to lose in a 12/12 from seed grow compared to the more forgiving grow style with veg-time given.

Of course with zero veg time you will yield less per plant compared to vegged plants but still you can get a LOT of bud , indoors easily 100g or more..,..outdoors.., well just check outdoor plantations in Colombia or Thailand with their huge plants ;)

 

[pinkus]

so what about this. Will there be a difference in flowering initiation time between clones that are taken from a mother in 24/0 or 18/6 and clones taken from plants in 12/12 during the stretch? Just wondering because I just decided to start trimming the lower branches in my flowering room and using them as clones.

Thanks ya'll
:420:

 

[mr green jeens]

cutting from flower room will be fine ....and almost a must for big fat tops latter on...try to take cuttings before too many signs. of flowers start .first 2 or 3 weeks in to light change is best.these cuttings will root faster because of hormone displasement goint to tops and because of less nitro in bloom flowering foods..clones made with flowers starting to form will prob take a extra week or2 to revert back to a full veg cycle. and sometimes even longer. this seems to depend on the type and how far into the flower cycle when the cut was made first week id say ..by the time thay root thae cuts will be back in veg week strains may hermi .happy cutting im a pro at it.

 

[mr green jeens]

133t even better point cant compare people to plants .besides whos ever heard of someone turning gender because of too many light hours ,growing a slong because of eating queech 24-7.how ever clones made from 5 week or older seem to give me more confidence in them.

 

[Asiatica]

WOW! Danke, Arigato, Grassy Ass, THANK YOU!

THANK YOU TO ALL WHO HELPED IN THIS DISCUSSION.

Excellent information all around.
Ive got my answer.
My brain is now.........:fixed:

Very proper information and mature discussion....

Whats not to like?

Peace and positive vibes to all.
:smiley_joint: