(r)dwc Worth The Hassle Over E&f? Better Yields? Sog

[Mmjcaveman]

In

I'm really enamored with the idea of the mister/sprayer hybrid DWC. I worry about getting the levels just right so muh plants get the nutes they need. Doing an NFT/DWC hybrid sounds like a good fix to that. Only problem is more heat

I'll be looking for a thread on your upgrade.

I personally will not be using the misters I don't think. Sm-90 really gets that water to act carbonated and mist roots anyway. I personally don't think it would help much but all yould have to do is add some dripper system that gets fed into the bucket at a higher level then the water level and with how much air they already get I'm not too keen on finding a better way for I think it's more wasted time than anything unless you go full on aero.


You will get the chance @Juicin it all comes in time really.

I got a 4x4 tent 2 years ago, look at me now.
It's like old people say, "I didn't buy it all in one day, but over a lifetime", which also applies to a growers garden
Keep your chin up and maybe if you start hitting 3 a light and looking into success nutrients you will be living the dream.
Let me tell you the day I switched to success was the day I felt like my growing had been pieced together.
Nutrients for any system (salts)

 

[Juicin]

In

I personally will not be using the misters I don't think. Sm-90 really gets that water to act carbonated and mist roots anyway. I personally don't think it would help much but all yould have to do is add some dripper system that gets fed into the bucket at a higher level then the water level and with how much air they already get I'm not too keen on finding a better way for I think it's more wasted time than anything unless you go full on aero.


You will get the change #juicin it all comes in time really.

I got a 4x4 tent 2 years ago, look at me now.
It's like old people say, "I didn't buy it all in one day, but over a lifetime", which also applies to a growers garden
Keep your chin up and maybe if you start hitting 3 a light and looking into success nutrients you will be living the dream.
Let me tell you the day I switched to success was the day I felt like my growing had been pieced together.
Nutrients for any system (salts)

I've got to leave my crappy state

Here you might as well manufacture meth or take up mycology. Margins are better and the penalties about the same

Especially now that herb is just flooding in from the west. I've been savin though. Biggest hurdle now is just finding that perfect spot. I don't want to accidentally move into a neighborhood full of tweakers on some mountain.

 

[SimplyCmplex]

In

I personally will not be using the misters I don't think. Sm-90 really gets that water to act carbonated and mist roots anyway. I personally don't think it would help much but all yould have to do is add some dripper system that gets fed into the bucket at a higher level then the water level and with how much air they already get I'm not too keen on finding a better way for I think it's more wasted time than anything unless you go full on aero.


You will get the chance @Juicin it all comes in time really.

I got a 4x4 tent 2 years ago, look at me now.
It's like old people say, "I didn't buy it all in one day, but over a lifetime", which also applies to a growers garden
Keep your chin up and maybe if you start hitting 3 a light and looking into success nutrients you will be living the dream.
Let me tell you the day I switched to success was the day I felt like my growing had been pieced together.
Nutrients for any system (salts)

Which salts approach are you using?

 

[Mmjcaveman]

Well success nutrients IS a salt nutrient line. I personally am growing in 1x1 cubes, then transfer to 4x4 or 6x6 cubes, top feed for a week or week and a half, once roots appear at the bottom of grodan I transplant to 7g pots in my 25% perlite 75% HP mix with mykos and azos, with great results and it really is easy to work with but lots of hand watering. I think as far as the dog goes for rdwc it's all about customizing your system and growing your plabts accordingly.

Also typically people end up spreading diseases due to not using the system correctly or simply putting yourself in harm's way by making a 1/2 ass system then slacking on maintenance in the mean time.
I personally think most problems are brought on by growers and can be avoided by the right grower knowledge

 

[Mmjcaveman]

Everybody who wants to hit three a light regardless of the system follow me and the chi will guide you to hitting 3 a light with salt Nutes 1000w and co2

 

[Douglas.C]

That's really the key differences between the two as far as I can tell. My problem is I can't really find any information about DWC or cannabis. It's all about soil and commercial agriculture

Do a search for "Ask Lucas" and read the entire thread a hundred times. ;)

15 years with straight DWC and it's the laziest, most economical way to high yields and great product. When properly done, that is. Multiple buckets is just stupid though and it saddens me to see people wasting so much time on them. Multiple nutrient changeouts are a waste of nutrients and water and also a waste of time. Every single strain I've ever run (which is quite a few, tyvm) has loved DWC, problems with DWC are not strain related, they're setup/maint related.

Single strain/reservoir per light, multiple plants per res is the way to go. The problem is most people learn hydro the wrong way first, then spend the rest of their "experience" trying to make it work and ignoring the truths. So sad.

Keys to DWC:
R/O water, and only r/o water
Balanced nutrient profile
Daily top off's with pure r/o
Sufficient airpump power with airstones
65F - 69F nutrient temp, always!

Mix your initial reservoir within 50ppm of the minimum strength required for full and robust growth. Use pH up to reach a pH of 5.4. Top off daily with pure r/o water. When pH reaches 5.8, add nutes to bring ppm back to start, pH will again be 5.4. (this cycle should take place within 7-10 days. Change reservoir size to increase/decrease this time) When flower swelling slows (usually around week 4 with most hybrids/indicas) stop adding nutes and forget about pH. Keep adding pure r/o top offs until 3-5 days before harvest. Pump your weakened solution out onto your garden or lawn and replace with pure r/0.

So stupid simple it's unreal. Of course, you still have to know environment and your particular strain variances.

 

[Douglas.C]

This methodology is also good for any system where the roots are constantly exposed to nutrient solution. 24/7 drip, NFT, RDWC, UC, etc..

Roots-out type hydro uses a narrower pH swing, due to the lower pH being reached as the medium dries out between feedings.

 

[Juicin]

Do a search for "Ask Lucas" and read the entire thread a hundred times. ;)

15 years with straight DWC and it's the laziest, most economical way to high yields and great product. When properly done, that is. Multiple buckets is just stupid though and it saddens me to see people wasting so much time on them. Multiple nutrient changeouts are a waste of nutrients and water and also a waste of time. Every single strain I've ever run (which is quite a few, tyvm) has loved DWC, problems with DWC are not strain related, they're setup/maint related.

Single strain/reservoir per light, multiple plants per res is the way to go. The problem is most people learn hydro the wrong way first, then spend the rest of their "experience" trying to make it work and ignoring the truths. So sad.

Keys to DWC:
R/O water, and only r/o water
Balanced nutrient profile
Daily top off's with pure r/o
Sufficient airpump power with airstones
65F - 69F nutrient temp, always!

Mix your initial reservoir within 50ppm of the minimum strength required for full and robust growth. Use pH up to reach a pH of 5.4. Top off daily with pure r/o water. When pH reaches 5.8, add nutes to bring ppm back to start, pH will again be 5.4. (this cycle should take place within 7-10 days. Change reservoir size to increase/decrease this time) When flower swelling slows (usually around week 4 with most hybrids/indicas) stop adding nutes and forget about pH. Keep adding pure r/o top offs until 3-5 days before harvest. Pump your weakened solution out onto your garden or lawn and replace with pure r/0.

So stupid simple it's unreal. Of course, you still have to know environment and your particular strain variances.

My biggest concern is the terps and yield. What you're describing doesn't seem to hurt yield. But is it doing enough to promote strong flavor?

The "SeeMoreBuds" grower he taped ran a lucas in a very similar way you do, and I've seen many others recommend it.

As some one who has never grown the fire I'm a worried about the taste of my bud the most. It's not clear how to promote strong flavors in an objective way. Is there nothing worth adding to my solution during flower beyond lucas/

 

[Douglas.C]

My biggest concern is the terps and yield. What you're describing doesn't seem to hurt yield. But is it doing enough to promote strong flavor?

Everyone who samples my cannabis swears it's the most flavorful, cleanest burning, smoothest and coolest (temperature wise) smoking "Organic" cannabis they've ever had, until I tell them it's hydro. They don't believe it at first. ;) Other growers give me cuts of their genetics and don't recognize it when I bring them the buds, it's that much better. I also flower with 72F max canopy temps and around 15% RH, which makes a big difference in terpene production and retention. :)

 

[Juicin]

Everyone who samples my cannabis swears it's the most flavorful, cleanest burning, smoothest and coolest (temperature wise) smoking "Organic" cannabis they've ever had, until I tell them it's hydro. They don't believe it at first. ;) Other growers give me cuts of their genetics and don't recognize it when I bring them the buds, it's that much better. I also flower with 72F max canopy temps and around 15% RH, which makes a big difference in terpene production and retention. :)

Oh I believe organic alone is not going to increase terps, nitrogen is nitrogen etc, wouldn't make any sense to have wildly disparate effects.

But you don't think there is anything out there that can increase potency/terps during flower?

All of it snake oil?

 

[Douglas.C]

But you don't think there is anything out there that can increase potency/terps during flower?

All of it snake oil?

I have no idea. 9 years ago I came across cannabis which was significantly superior to my own quality. Before that, nobody had better quality than I, but my quality was only 'decent' compared to this one grower. I did research the next few years and significantly increased my quality. Though the average quality around has also increased, Ihaven't come across quality as good as mine since, not even close. Several legal states, lots of dispensaries and personal growers.

I haven't even begun to try any snake oils. The only addition I use is a few ml/gal of floralicious+, but only when I first mix the reservoir. Adding too much or too late in flower and there's a non-cannabis flavor which shows up. The sulfur from the epsom salts also makes a noticeable and pleasing difference in terpene production.

 

[heisen]

sounds to me like you already have the answers and know what you wanna do your just looking for a reason not to do it.I have been researching and found this video of a guy who made this system i was pretty impressed with.I think with some big ass totes and getting the water level vs flow right you can have a hell of a system with a 3200GPH pump and huge ass reservoir everything recirculates back to.I doubt you would even need a chiller.Its kind of a hybrid aero-DWC and i like it.I might be doing something similar in the future with a couple buckets if i can find the nozzes.The rest is easy.

 

[Juicin]

sounds to me like you already have the answers and know what you wanna do your just looking for a reason not to do it.I have been researching and found this video of a guy who made this system i was pretty impressed with.I think with some big ass totes and getting the water level vs flow right you can have a hell of a system with a 3200GPH pump and huge ass reservoir everything recirculates back to.I doubt you would even need a chiller.Its kind of a hybrid aero-DWC and i like it.I might be doing something similar in the future with a couple buckets if i can find the nozzes.The rest is easy.

Well yea

That's the best way to learn IMO, i'm looking for some one to take the argument up and give me clarity. And hopefully you too

If you wanted to be fancy you could call it the Socratic method i think, although it seems to come natural. The conversation forces you to face the presumptions in your argument and vice versa.

All I really have is anecdote from non peer reviewed threads and data from studies that are far from perfect, often not even the same species of plant. And some one here may be very well versed on the topic and have everything bookmarked just for this occasion. Maybe root mass has no effect as long as you flood enough times a day...Or there is a very high diminishing returns on larger roots.

If I were an academic I'd consider the data I'm relying on beyond flawed.

So I'm looking to see if there is better data out there I'm missing.

edit - and i basically built a giant version of that rig he has there. Cost me a lot more because of the plastic though. And I have no idea of the top i sourced was food safe. Might have even costed more then

 

[heisen]

Well yea

That's the best way to learn IMO, i'm looking for some one to take the argument up and give me clarity. And hopefully you too

If you wanted to be fancy you could call it the Socratic method i think, although it seems to come natural. The conversation forces you to face the presumptions in your argument and vice versa.

All I really have is anecdote from non peer reviewed threads and data from studies that are far from perfect, often not even the same species of plant. And some one here may be very well versed on the topic and have everything bookmarked just for this occasion. Maybe root mass has no effect as long as you flood enough times a day...Or there is a very high diminishing returns on larger roots.

If I were an academic I'd consider the data I'm relying on beyond flawed.

So I'm looking to see if there is better data out there I'm missing.

edit - and i basically built a giant version of that rig he has there. Cost me a lot more because of the plastic though. And I have no idea of the top i sourced was food safe. Might have even costed more then

Fair enough.So how did that system do?Im really interested in it.I like the idea of No Chiller but if one of them pumps went out looks like you would be doped and would be new produce for the burn pile.

 

[Juicin]

Fair enough.So how did that system do?Im really interested in it.I like the idea of No Chiller but if one of them pumps went out looks like you would be doped and would be new produce for the burn pile.

Oh I'm sorry, i referenced it earlier you probably missed it. I just built it because I was toying with the idea. The penalties deterred me, and they're tied to plant count here obviously. I bought a light to try my hand at bush tomatoes but I moved out of my mothers house and it never happened. Silly to be doing other crimes and simultaneously something that looks exactly like a cannabis grow.

I had considered moving out to a more lenient state back then, but I didn't have the capital. Moved on to other things...But with the laws having changed there is no reason not try now.

 

[Idoit650]

Hey man.
I feel like most of these people talking on your thread are too busy doubting you and not talking legistics.
On average a typical soil grower (lets just talk indoor) will average 1gram per watt. If they use a drip system they can probbabblllllyyyy manage 1-1.5 grams per watt. This is why people are pushing towards hydroponics. It allows a better nutrient intake as the roots are exposed to oxygen constantly. The smaller micron level, the higher oxygen levels will exist in your root system, which will result in bigger growth.
Flooding your roots (the more bubbles the better growth you will have). So for dwc and rdwc, it provides more nutrient intake than ebb and flow because of higher oxygen levels when the water touches the roots.
Since ebb and flow doesnt have airstones in the root canal (tray) it doesn't have as much efficiency as dwc/rdwc. I did rdwc and dwc for 2 years with a 2.0-2.5 grams per watt average.
While those grows were in the process i was making new setups trying to get lower micron levels. And came up with this:
Below is the system that i managed to pull 3 grams per watt, by using a technique called aeroponics/fogponics.

I tested RDWC. I tested DWC. Ebb and flow.
But the best system I've ever made was the one in this video with a combination of foggers in my grow buckets.

So in conclusion: MICRON SIZE MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE even for SOG.

Hope I made sense cuz I just smoked a blunt to the face.