Raptor XXXL 8" Hoods

[Sunshinegrower]

So I have been growing for years now and I have learned a lot. Here's my question and has anyone done it before... I'm running the Raptor XXXL 8" ducted hoods with 1k Argosun HPS bulb. My idea is to configure the hood to hold 2 - 1k HPS bulbs in it. One of my main concerns is how close can the bulbs be next to each other, but my idea is to move the current bulb from the center over to one side by 4" or so and then install another the same distance off from center so they would roughly have 8" apart. I would ramp up the air flow on the hoods also to keep everything running cool. I have seen hoods with dual bulbs, but nothing like this before.

 

[DazedNconfussed]

Personally I dont think the lumens would nessasarly double...maybe one of our experts can weigh in...if it strait up doubles the lumens thats be worth a try for sure...I have thought about something similar, but my idea was to mix the spectrum and run a Metal Halide in there with a HPS....

I am currently doing a test and running a 1000watt metal halide about 2' away from my hps on one corner oof my grow to see how it compares to just hps's on the other corner...

anyways..just an idea....

 

[Sunshinegrower]

Personally I dont think the lumens would nessasarly double...maybe one of our experts can weigh in...if it strait up doubles the lumens thats be worth a try for sure...I have thought about something similar, but my idea was to mix the spectrum and run a Metal Halide in there with a HPS....

I am currently doing a test and running a 1000watt metal halide about 2' away from my hps on one corner oof my grow to see how it compares to just hps's on the other corner...

anyways..just an idea....

How is the test going for you? I have been doing some research on adding a 2nd bulb to the hoods and I can't find anything that says it will not double the lumens. I have some light meters, but nothing really to do a controlled test. You have got me thinking about adding MH to these. I run magnetic ballast that have a switch to run HPS or MH. So I think I'm going to get an extra hood and set it up for dual bulbs and do a corner run test with 2 HPS. Then towards the end of the flowering switch it out to MH. When would you switch the 2nd bulbs from HPS to MH in the flowering cycle?

 

[Seed Buyer]

Sunhsinegrower....why not just run the Galaxy Master Blaster 1500 HPS lights?

 

[ttystikk]

So I have been growing for years now and I have learned a lot. Here's my question and has anyone done it before... I'm running the Raptor XXXL 8" ducted hoods with 1k Argosun HPS bulb. My idea is to configure the hood to hold 2 - 1k HPS bulbs in it. One of my main concerns is how close can the bulbs be next to each other, but my idea is to move the current bulb from the center over to one side by 4" or so and then install another the same distance off from center so they would roughly have 8" apart. I would ramp up the air flow on the hoods also to keep everything running cool. I have seen hoods with dual bulbs, but nothing like this before.

There is a good reason not to do as you're contemplating. If you look carefully at the way the reflective surface is set up inside the hood, you'll notice that the 'spine' of the material is directly in line with the bulb. If you move the bulb over to one side or the other, you'll completely screw up the reflected footprint of the hood, and as such you may as well not bother with a hood at all- you'll get nasty hotspots and poor light distribution. Adding another bulb merely doubles this problem without solving it.

If you want to put two bulbs in one high performance hood, I suggest getting two adjust-a-wing reflectors and attach them mount to mount- each bulb gets its own hood, and the mounts are base-end together. You'll get the light spread pattern the hood was designed for, and you'll get the true lumens to the canopy output you're looking for. Only downside is that's not a sealed and vented setup.

 

[smalltime99]

Why wouldn't you just use a GrowZilla? It holds two 1000w and says it has 290,000 lumens.

 

[paperplane]

That's what I was gonna say the Growzilla. I have contemplated some of these same thoughts. but wanted to run an HPS & a Blue or superblue. I have also thought about making a custom 5x9 hood with 4 bulbs. Just 1 big hood over a 4x8.

 

[treehugger]

Why wouldn't you just use a GrowZilla? It holds two 1000w and says it has 290,000 lumens.

one needs to consider that overkill eventually reaches the point of diminishing returns...

 

[sedate]

So I have been growing for years now and I have learned a lot. Here's my question and has anyone done it before... I'm running the Raptor XXXL 8" ducted hoods with 1k Argosun HPS bulb. My idea is to configure the hood to hold 2 - 1k HPS bulbs in it. One of my main concerns is how close can the bulbs be next to each other, but my idea is to move the current bulb from the center over to one side by 4" or so and then install another the same distance off from center so they would roughly have 8" apart. I would ramp up the air flow on the hoods also to keep everything running cool. I have seen hoods with dual bulbs, but nothing like this before.

Dude that is a really stupid thing to do to a beautiful piece like that reflector.

I think you should chill out.

That's what I was gonna say the Growzilla. I have contemplated some of these same thoughts. but wanted to run an HPS & a Blue or superblue. I have also thought about making a custom 5x9 hood with 4 bulbs. Just 1 big hood over a 4x8.

Yea that's kinda what I was thinking if he's so dead-set on firepower.

Not going to do 4x8 though. Maybe 4x5 real nicely.

 

[ttystikk]

Yeah, now that you have two 1000W bulbs burning so close together, what are you going to do with all that light? Hang it 5' above your plants? After a certain point is reached, it's more about effectively distributing the light than just making more of it.

 

[Mr.GoodCat]

Somethings in this industry are gimicks, one being the growzilla. There IS a point where to much light in a grow enviroment is a bad thing. You will have to worry about heat stress, lumen shock and lower humidity levels. I think anything over 70w/sq.ft is over kill. You would probably have better luck with PAR intensification rather than LUX intensification by either mixing some other spectrums IE Metal Halide, LED or plasma lights to you canopy.

 

[sedate]

After a certain point is reached, it's more about effectively distributing the light than just making more of it.

Um. Just to quibble.

Certainly not "after a certain point" - placement and distribution is just as, if not more important as firepower.

A garden under a 600w HPS, 6" off a canopy, is going to receive substantially more light than a 1000w 12" over the same garden.

Here - have a read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

Anyway - to the OP - get your Raptor 6 - 8" off the canopy and you really don't need more firepower than that.

If you want more - you'll need to go vertical.

 

[Shiplessocean]

Um. Just to quibble.

Certainly not "after a certain point" - placement and distribution is just as, if not more important as firepower.

A garden under a 600w HPS, 6" off a canopy, is going to receive substantially more light than a 1000w 12" over the same garden.

Here - have a read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

Anyway - to the OP - get your Raptor 6 - 8" off the canopy and you really don't need more firepower than that.

If you want more - you'll need to go vertical.

you sir hit the nail right on, Thanks for the good example instead of just bitching :)

Makes sense!

 

[ttystikk]

Um. Just to quibble.

Certainly not "after a certain point" - placement and distribution is just as, if not more important as firepower.

A garden under a 600w HPS, 6" off a canopy, is going to receive substantially more light than a 1000w 12" over the same garden.

Here - have a read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

Yes, after a certain point- that point being the minimum threshold of adequate light provided. after that, you're absolutely right.

I'm well aware of the inverse square law, and something that I was recently taught by Wazzap (who sounds like he works at Gavita, so I bet he knows his lighting, no?) in another thread recently is that it doesn't begin to apply until distance is 5x the length of the light source. This generally applies more to flourescent lighting, but at the short distance cited in your example it would apply there, too.

Your example was correct- again, to a point. Directly under that light, you're right. However, the 600W light source isn't going to provide that greater intensity to as large a footprint. In fact if it's that close, you're going to get a nasty hotspot and a lot of lanky girls around the edges... to say nothing of what happens 12" below a bare 1000W bulb! Best, then, to try to get the right amount of light as evenly distributed across the canopy as possible. This isn't easy with point sources...



As you can see from this thread, I'm no stranger to the finer points of how lighting works. I'm trying all the cheats in the book, not to mention trying to come up with a few of my own...

Sunshinegrower, I know what you're trying to do, with one each of a HPS and MH bulb in the same fixture. Not a bad plan to get a better mix of spectra on your plants, but again hacking up a raptor isn't going to get you there, not by a long shot! I think your best move is to get a dual element bulb and mount it normally in that fixture and you'll be right where you want to be. If you want to light a 4 x 8 space, then do two of them.

Never quibble with a quibbler... :passingjoint:

 

[Dr CandyMan]

my whole room is set up with dual bulb raptor hoods. In fact, in my area its a growing fad to have dual bulb raptor hoods. I dont have any pics on me right now. All u have to do is buy a $10 bracket u have to place the brackets on the inside edge of the 8in duct. 2 1,000 watts fit in all day no prob.

 

[sedate]

I'm well aware of the inverse square law, and something that I was recently taught by Wazzap (who sounds like he works at Gavita, so I bet he knows his lighting, no?) in another thread recently is that it doesn't begin to apply until distance is 5x the length of the light source.

What?

Are you saying that since the filament in a 1000w bulb is some 8" long the inverse square law does not apply until you are 40" from the bulb?

Are you actually saying that?.

Your example was correct- again, to a point. Directly under that light, you're right. However, the 600W light source isn't going to provide that greater intensity to as large a footprint. In fact if it's that close, you're going to get a nasty hotspot and a lot of lanky girls around the edges...

What? How many 600's have you actually set up?

You really think you'll get a "nasty hotspot and a lot of lanky girls" if I stuck a 600 in quality reflector and blew 400 CFM through it? Do you think that?

to say nothing of what happens 12" below a bare 1000W bulb!

This is really airflow dependent. You could get away with this all day long.

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f9/b...nna-see-32693/

As you can see from this thread, I'm no stranger to the finer points of how lighting works. I'm trying all the cheats in the book, not to mention trying to come up with a few of my own...

Wait. Wait. I'm - sort of - in shock at this ..

You think there are situations where the Inverse Square Law does not apply - and you think that funny bicycle gadget makes you an expert on light?

Wow ttyystikk. Wow.

 

[sedate]

my whole room is set up with dual bulb raptor hoods. In fact, in my area its a growing fad to have dual bulb raptor hoods. I dont have any pics on me right now. All u have to do is buy a $10 bracket u have to place the brackets on the inside edge of the 8in duct. 2 1,000 watts fit in all day no prob.

Can you snap a photo of that?

What bracket do you use?

 

[ttystikk]

What?

Are you saying that since the filament in a 1000w bulb is some 8" long the inverse square law does not apply until you are 40" from the bulb?

Are you actually saying that?.

No, I didn't say it, 'Whazzup', the gavita guy did and I quoted him. Get your references straight. If you disagree- and I'm not sure I fully buy his story either, for that matter- take it up with him. In the spirit of actually learning something, I'm interested to hear what you find out.

What? How many 600's have you actually set up?

You really think you'll get a "nasty hotspot and a lot of lanky girls" if I stuck a 600 in quality reflector and blew 400 CFM through it? Do you think that?

Plenty. If you have your 600 that close to the same size area you'll run your 1000W over, you'll get that result. Funny how it's only now you mention you want to run your 600 in a hood instead of bare for this comparison.

This is really airflow dependent. You could get away with this all day long.

I said BARE BULB. Apples to apples- and yes, a hooded, sealed and ducted 1000W bulb runs great 12" over plants. But again, I was using the example of a bare bulb. And I said so. Did you read what I wrote, or just jump to conclusions?

While we're on the subject, a 600W bulb will not give the same or better OVERALL results as a 1000W setup under the same conditions, you'll need two. Unless you'd like to skew the results by talking about two different sized plots?

Wait. Wait. I'm - sort of - in shock at this ..

You think there are situations where the Inverse Square Law does not apply - and you think that funny bicycle gadget makes you an expert on light?

Wow ttyystikk. Wow.

Answered above. And yes, a 'funny bicycle gadget' actually does give me this strange thing called 'real world experience'. I suggest you try some, and stop this immature pissing contest thing, it's getting tiring. The light rotator experiment, along with plenty of other projects, is teaching me plenty about how lighting in indoor agriculture works in a firsthand, hands-on fashion. Terribly sorry if it doesn't square with your favorite Wikipedia quotes.

You know, it's funny, I don't see a lot of original thought in your commentaries- but you're more than happy to jump all over someone else's. How helpful is that?

 

[ttystikk]

my whole room is set up with dual bulb raptor hoods. In fact, in my area its a growing fad to have dual bulb raptor hoods. I dont have any pics on me right now. All u have to do is buy a $10 bracket u have to place the brackets on the inside edge of the 8in duct. 2 1,000 watts fit in all day no prob.

I'm very interested in how you have this set up as well- can you show us some pics?

From your description, it sounds like you're running the two bulbs in line, which sounds like it would work pretty well.

 

[ttystikk]

How is the test going for you? I have been doing some research on adding a 2nd bulb to the hoods and I can't find anything that says it will not double the lumens. I have some light meters, but nothing really to do a controlled test. You have got me thinking about adding MH to these. I run magnetic ballast that have a switch to run HPS or MH. So I think I'm going to get an extra hood and set it up for dual bulbs and do a corner run test with 2 HPS. Then towards the end of the flowering switch it out to MH. When would you switch the 2nd bulbs from HPS to MH in the flowering cycle?

It's been well documented here on the farm and elsewhere that adding more blue and UV to the light mix in the last few weeks of the flowering cycle helps resin production. The jury is still out on increased weight, however.