Recycling Smartpots Into Raised Beds

[500lbs Guerilla]

I'm curious if anybody has built anything like this before, as I'd love some feedback or construction input. I have a bunch 200 gallon geopots that I was going to get rid. However I'm about to finish building a few medium size cold frames, and was thinking that instead of filling them with smaller fabric pots, I could cut the 200s up, sew them together, and make long rows of breathable raised beds.
The plan is to build a frame of 2x4's with 4x4 supports every 8 feet or so. Beds around 4' or 5' wide and spanning the length of the greenhouse. I can't bury the 4x4's very deep as its all decomposed granite after about a foot down. Then line the frame with the fabric and staple it to the frame. Maybe some chicken wire to keep it from bulging out of the frame too much. The idea, other than saving money by recycling old material, is that each bed would allow more rootspace and be easier to irrigate than a couple rows of smaller pots. The downside being it would be more difficult to swap soil out if I needed to re-amend.
I hope that makes sense...

 

[Seamaiden]

Yes, it makes total sense. I don't think you'd need to re-sew the pots back together, I think the soil will hold down the edges just fine (overlap a little bit). I think sewing the material with a regular home sewing machine will be an absolute fucking BITCH, and I wouldn't even know what needle to select, maybe the leather needle..? I'm not sure.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you want to reuse that fabric to retain the soil while having the wood act as a frame, yes? I'm sure it can be done, but I'll tell you this, if you're in California and experiencing our drought, consider just fully enclosing the sides of the beds in order to prevent excessive evaporation. My Smart Pot ladies took over 4x the amount of water as my deep bed (with logs acting as sponges).

Let me show you some pix of my homemade 'Smart Pots' where I used landscape fabric (of which I still have quite a bit left, $30 for the whole roll), quarter inch hardware cloth and electric conduit driven into the ground.

Ok, the first one I'm showing you I had run out of hardware cloth and used that landscaping fencing crap. I suppose it goes to show that you can get pretty creative in your solutions, but I guarantee a gopher could get through it, no problema. In another pic I'm showing how I like to stick rebar into the conduit to make a quick & easy support system for the Hortonova. Ghetto, but it does the job.

 

[Jboys3]

Yes, it makes total sense. I don't think you'd need to re-sew the pots back together, I think the soil will hold down the edges just fine (overlap a little bit). I think sewing the material with a regular home sewing machine will be an absolute fucking BITCH, and I wouldn't even know what needle to select, maybe the leather needle..? I'm not sure.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you want to reuse that fabric to retain the soil while having the wood act as a frame, yes? I'm sure it can be done, but I'll tell you this, if you're in California and experiencing our drought, consider just fully enclosing the sides of the beds in order to prevent excessive evaporation. My Smart Pot ladies took over 4x the amount of water as my deep bed (with logs acting as sponges).

Let me show you some pix of my homemade 'Smart Pots' where I used landscape fabric (of which I still have quite a bit left, $30 for the whole roll), quarter inch hardware cloth and electric conduit driven into the ground.

Ok, the first one I'm showing you I had run out of hardware cloth and used that landscaping fencing crap. I suppose it goes to show that you can get pretty creative in your solutions, but I guarantee a gopher could get through it, no problema. In another pic I'm showing how I like to stick rebar into the conduit to make a quick & easy support system for the Hortonova. Ghetto, but it does the job.

If you were to use the smart pots outside, would I need to wrap the pot to keep it from rolling their edges?

I like the idea of conduit to quickly use re-bar as supports. I assue you could also use bamboo stakes inside the conduit/PVC pipe and re-use them too?

 

[500lbs Guerilla]

Yes, it makes total sense. I don't think you'd need to re-sew the pots back together, I think the soil will hold down the edges just fine (overlap a little bit). I think sewing the material with a regular home sewing machine will be an absolute fucking BITCH, and I wouldn't even know what needle to select, maybe the leather needle..? I'm not sure.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you want to reuse that fabric to retain the soil while having the wood act as a frame, yes? I'm sure it can be done, but I'll tell you this, if you're in California and experiencing our drought, consider just fully enclosing the sides of the beds in order to prevent excessive evaporation. My Smart Pot ladies took over 4x the amount of water as my deep bed (with logs acting as sponges).

Let me show you some pix of my homemade 'Smart Pots' where I used landscape fabric (of which I still have quite a bit left, $30 for the whole roll), quarter inch hardware cloth and electric conduit driven into the ground.

Ok, the first one I'm showing you I had run out of hardware cloth and used that landscaping fencing crap. I suppose it goes to show that you can get pretty creative in your solutions, but I guarantee a gopher could get through it, no problema. In another pic I'm showing how I like to stick rebar into the conduit to make a quick & easy support system for the Hortonova. Ghetto, but it does the job.

Yes sewing it would be a major hassle, especially since geopots are quite a bit thicker than smartpots. If I cut a pot, it should stretch out to a little over 12'. If I placed a support beam every 12', I could staple them together at the beam with a little overlap and I can see avoiding the needle.
But you raise a lot of good points. Building solid walls for the beds would save water for sure, but I'm assuming solid beds would last much longer with cedar or redwood, which is pretty costly with how much wood I need. I try to as water conscious as I can afford.
I like your design though. Simple, inexpensive, and easy to add trellis. I wonder how well it would hold up if I made a beds that were 60' long..
I'd probably be better off selling my geopots on Craigslist and just buying landscape fabric. Know anybody in the foothills that wants some 200g pots?

 

[wobbly goblin]

think it was amber that posted this link awhile back



it may give you an idea or two

fwiw

 

[500lbs Guerilla]

Those are pretty sweet, and at a decent price! I can get geoplanters the same size for the same price, which are similar but with a pvc frame to help keep it's shape. but unfortunately since I'm set up to transplant from 10 and 15 gallon pots, 12" is too low for what I need. I also like the idea of one long bed because I'm considering running some pex at the bottom for some radiant heating for a winter crop... but first things first.

think it was amber that posted this link awhile back



it may give you an idea or two

fwiw

 

[wobbly goblin]

Those are pretty sweet, and at a decent price! I can get geoplanters the same size for the same price, which are similar but with a pvc frame to help keep it's shape. but unfortunately since I'm set up to transplant from 10 and 15 gallon pots, 12" is too low for what I need. I also like the idea of one long bed because I'm considering running some pex at the bottom for some radiant heating for a winter crop... but first things first.

you are talking hydronic beds... i have those in my greenhouse
use the 2 inch thick rigid polystyrene board end to end so you have 4 foot wide beds as long as you want them, i dug out troughs first so the tops are near ground level
pex...use 1/2 inch pex-al-pex (oxygen barrier)at a maximum of 300 ft per loop and try to keep all loops the same length to balance the flow for even heat

you probably want to keep your pex between the rigid board and the grow bag to minimize root entanglement

rip sheets of the same rigid board to edge your beds to keep the heat in and support with pressure treated lumber on the outside and concrete form stakes to hold the lumber in place

btw..hydronic beds work real nice

fwiw

 

[500lbs Guerilla]

you are talking hydronic beds... i have those in my greenhouse
use the 2 inch thick rigid polystyrene board end to end so you have 4 foot wide beds as long as you want them, i dug out troughs first so the tops are near ground level
pex...use 1/2 inch pex-al-pex (oxygen barrier)at a maximum of 300 ft per loop and try to keep all loops the same length to balance the flow for even heat

you probably want to keep your pex between the rigid board and the grow bag to minimize root entanglement

rip sheets of the same rigid board to edge your beds to keep the heat in and support with pressure treated lumber on the outside and concrete form stakes to hold the lumber in place

btw..hydronic beds work real nice

fwiw

Perfect! I was hesitant to use pressure treated lumber because of any potential leaching, but having a layer of polystyrene would mostly prevent that. I completely forgot about using stakes to hold wood together. I terraced an entire hillside like that a few years ago at an old property and it's still holding up great for the new owners.
I can't trench any deeper as I can't get a skidsteer in there anymore, and it's so rocky underneath that it would be a nightmare even if I could get the skid inside.
So you're saying to lay the pex on top of the polystyrene, and then put the breathable fabric on top of that? What's the farthest apart I should run my pex lines? Do you think I could get away with a single 300' loop in a 4x50 bed? Are you using a boiler or something else like an on-demand heater? How well is your polystyrene holding up to all the moisture?
It sounds like a solid wall design so there would be no need to cut up expensive pots to line them. Using Landscape fabric instead to line the inside of the beds should work just fine. I'm passing out but ill crunch some numbers tomorrow and see what it would cost with pt lumber and rigid foamboards

 

[Seamaiden]

If you were to use the smart pots outside, would I need to wrap the pot to keep it from rolling their edges?

I like the idea of conduit to quickly use re-bar as supports. I assue you could also use bamboo stakes inside the conduit/PVC pipe and re-use them too?

Hm... I'd like to know, too, because it's a problem for me OD and of course I lose volume when the sides roll down. I'm not sure how I could use the conduit to prevent that, either. It seems like they need a collar. As you can see, I haven't resolved that problem with my larger SPs, so I tend to just fold them over a bit to provide a wee bit more rigidity.

Yes sewing it would be a major hassle, especially since geopots are quite a bit thicker than smartpots. If I cut a pot, it should stretch out to a little over 12'. If I placed a support beam every 12', I could staple them together at the beam with a little overlap and I can see avoiding the needle.
But you raise a lot of good points. Building solid walls for the beds would save water for sure, but I'm assuming solid beds would last much longer with cedar or redwood, which is pretty costly with how much wood I need. I try to as water conscious as I can afford.
I like your design though. Simple, inexpensive, and easy to add trellis. I wonder how well it would hold up if I made a beds that were 60' long..
I'd probably be better off selling my geopots on Craigslist and just buying landscape fabric. Know anybody in the foothills that wants some 200g pots?

We used pressure treated lumber and then we coated it with... aw fuck, now I'm forgetting what we used! It's this stuff that we also used on the backside inside of the retaining wall, on the concrete block. It's very thin, but it creates a good moisture barrier. Let's see if I can show you some pix of this newest raised bed. Dave made it very deep, the top level comes up to my waist. I laid short pine logs upright on the bottom so as to act as sponges, too. Then, I cover cropped under the canopy. This really helped while the cover crops were alive to keep the soil moisture even, but after we had some bad heat spells while I was gone a bunch of the cover crops died back, and I decided not to reseed since that would require more water than I wanted to dedicate.

Backside is the retaining wall, front side is the that we treated.

Perfect! I was hesitant to use pressure treated lumber because of any potential leaching, but having a layer of polystyrene would mostly prevent that. I completely forgot about using stakes to hold wood together. I terraced an entire hillside like that a few years ago at an old property and it's still holding up great for the new owners.
I can't trench any deeper as I can't get a skidsteer in there anymore, and it's so rocky underneath that it would be a nightmare even if I could get the skid inside.
So you're saying to lay the pex on top of the polystyrene, and then put the breathable fabric on top of that? What's the farthest apart I should run my pex lines? Do you think I could get away with a single 300' loop in a 4x50 bed? Are you using a boiler or something else like an on-demand heater? How well is your polystyrene holding up to all the moisture?
It sounds like a solid wall design so there would be no need to cut up expensive pots to line them. Using Landscape fabric instead to line the inside of the beds should work just fine. I'm passing out but ill crunch some numbers tomorrow and see what it would cost with pt lumber and rigid foamboards

It sounds like your land is a lot like ours--rock, with some clay and pebbles strewn in between. This is why I'm raised beds, all the way. Well, that, and my back.

The landscape fabric is so much cheaper that I think you'd be better off saving your SPs, maybe making some of your money back on them.

 

[wobbly goblin]

So you're saying to lay the pex on top of the polystyrene, and then put the breathable fabric on top of that? What's the farthest apart I should run my pex lines? Do you think I could get away with a single 300' loop in a 4x50 bed? Are you using a boiler or something else like an on-demand heater? How well is your polystyrene holding up to all the moisture?
It sounds like a solid wall design so there would be no need to cut up expensive pots to line them. Using Landscape fabric instead to line the inside of the beds should work just fine. I'm passing out but ill crunch some numbers tomorrow and see what it would cost with pt lumber and rigid foamboards

pex goes on top of insulation. i have 4 inches of sand on top of that but i'm not sure it's really needed to help spread the heat evenly

a 300 ft loop would work real well in a 4 x 50 bed with the 1/2 pex, don't try and add extra pex though as you will encounter flow restriction issues if you get much over the 300 feet

heater: you can go boiler if you like or ghetto and use a propane water heater but the boiler would be a lot more efficient
i use a propane water heater with a ranco thermostat in the soil to control the circulation pump

re polystyrene holding up to moisture? if you use the rigid (pink or blue) it will last longer than you will. the sun will eat it though so you want to keep it covered. i use orca film type black and white plastic

fwiw