Red/blue/purple Anthocyanins

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Slowitdown

Slowitdown

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Hello Friends! So, I have been trying some different things out on a few different strains. Now, we know that in the last few weeks of flower you lower your temps and get plants to show the purple tint. We know the reason it happens bla bla bla. My question is this - While in California over the weekend I met with a buddy of mine who told me of a different method of bringing reds/blues out of the plants. Acid/Alkaline PH can either bring blue or red out of the buds. Has anyone ever tried this method ? Or heard of anyone trying it?
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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I've never heard of it, nor observed it. He's saying it's like hydrangeas.

What I have also observed are the colors coming out only where the sun hits the leaves.
 
MidwestToker

MidwestToker

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I'm sure you can but at what cost to you're plants. Raising or lowering you're pH will do the same as cold temps by limiting the plants ability to use nutrients out of their pH range.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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But! Shifting pH can also induce autumnal fade by that very same mechanism. I personally prefer to feed a couple of hard doses of sugar(s) and let the microbes fix N and force the fade that way.
 
MidwestToker

MidwestToker

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Although there is a correlation to pH in berries and fruits coloration. I believe in our plants it's more to do with the sugar content or the efficiencies or inefficiencies of the plants to produce or consume the sugars. Some say it's a SAR's response to protect the plant by increasing sugar content to help the plants finish. One thing is known that it takes a sugar molecule to produce anthocyanin.
 
Slowitdown

Slowitdown

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I'm sure you can but at what cost to you're plants. Raising or lowering you're pH will do the same as cold temps by limiting the plants ability to use nutrients out of their pH range.

One of the costs will obviously be a smaller yield. For a lot of people that right there would make the concept not worth it.
 
Slowitdown

Slowitdown

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But! Shifting pH can also induce autumnal fade by that very same mechanism. I personally prefer to feed a couple of hard doses of sugar(s) and let the microbes fix N and force the fade that way.

Yes, that is what I am saying. In acidic pH levels they appear more red, in neutral conditions purple, and in alkaline more blue. So, at a neutral pH with cold temps I can bring out the purple (I hate lowering temps in my rooms though) BUT if I mess with the pH last few weeks of flower I am risking a smaller yield (not worried about this) second I can risk maybe ruining the plants and this is what I am worried about.
 
MidwestToker

MidwestToker

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I've experienced no yield loss from strains just from the presence of anthocyanin's. In fact I have 2 sisters, one a purple bitch and one a normal plant with just purple streaks and the purple bitch out yields it's sister.
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Slowitdown

Slowitdown

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I've experienced no yield loss from strains just from the presence of anthocyanin's. In fact I have 2 sisters, one a purple bitch and one a normal plant with just purple streaks and the purple bitch out yields it's sister.View attachment 597260

When I was talking about taking a loss on yield I am talking about environment changes. Lowering temps 10-15 degrees. Also, what we were talking about above feeding a more acid/alkaline PH
 
MidwestToker

MidwestToker

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My point being that 90% of you're coloration is related to genetics. I don't change anything to make my plants turn colors.
And you could achieve the same results by starving the plants of nutrients by feeding it no P. Which get locked out at cold temps.
Anyway, best of luck with you're endeavors.
 
Slowitdown

Slowitdown

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My point being that 90% of you're coloration is related to genetics. I don't change anything to make my plants turn colors.
And you could achieve the same results by starving the plants of nutrients by feeding it no P. Which get locked out at cold temps.
Anyway, best of luck with you're endeavors.

I know what your saying. I have plants that turn purple at 78 degrees the whole way through. And your also right about genetics 90% genetics but that is not what I am talking about. Some strains don't have anthocyanin so even if you lower temps they will not change colors. What I am asking above is if anyone has tried to raise or lower ph to a certain percentage at the end of flower and what happened...
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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I've done it twice, to try to force a fade, and it didn't really cause a fade. After that someone suggested feeding the sugars, so that's what I've been doing these past several years.
 
MrBlah

MrBlah

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I've talked about this with some others before. A guy by the name of David Hershey has written specifically on this topic before, and some of what is below is a direct quote. You can read his qualifications here: http://www.angelfire.com/ab6/hershey/bio.htm

In the fall when leaves senesce, they often produce more anthocyanins, which often function to protect the leaves from high light or ultraviolet light.

A similar mechanism might be operating for a nitrogen deficient leaf which is also exporting large amounts of nitrogen. Fall leaf senescence is similar to a leaf nitrogen deficiency because the chlorophyll is no longer being synthesized and mineral nutrients, such as nitrogen, are being exported from the leaf. An older leaf dying from lack of nitrogen is undergoing a similar process. Chlorophyll cannot be synthesized due to lack of nitrogen so the leaf becomes chlorotic, meaning it turns yellow or white as chlorophyll is degraded and the yellow carotenoids are revealed. The nitrogen in the leaf is transported to growing points such as shoot tips, which have a higher demand for nitrogen.

Anthocyanin formation occurs with some other deficiencies, particularly phosphorus and sulfur. Tomato plants often show purpling of their leaf undersides as a phosphorus deficiency symptom. Remember that one thing that may complicate the appearance of leaf anthocyanins in nutrient deficient leaves is whether they are being synthesized in response to a nutrient deficiency or if preexisting anthocyanins are simply becoming visible because of the loss of chlorophyll from the leaves."

So, you are seeing a purple color at the end of the flowering period because the plant is reaching end of life and is no longer producing chlorophyll.
 
Slowitdown

Slowitdown

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I've done it twice, to try to force a fade, and it didn't really cause a fade. After that someone suggested feeding the sugars, so that's what I've been doing these past several years.

You run organic right @Seamaiden ?
 
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