Rookie - help identifying problem

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AutoGuy

AutoGuy

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Rookie grower in her. My first plant.
Super Lemon Haze Auto

I have noticed some issues with my plants.
I am not sure exactly what is the cause of that. I though that may be a calcium deficiency but after browsing that forum I have a doubt for that.
I flushed them 2 days ago with 6.5ph RO and fox farm "Sledge Hamer"
I think after that flush got worst...

Humidity %60
Temp 82 - 84
CO2 1350 - 1500
PPM - 1250
PAR - 1200

I am on Fox Soil chart week 6.
Added extra calmag 4mm per gal.

What do you guys think it is?

Thanks and stay safe!
 
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Smoking Gun

Smoking Gun

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Several questions, how often are you applying the nutrients? How are you supplying and monitoring CO2? What soil are you using? The very dark color of the leaves does somewhat indicate a bit too much nitrogen which may be causing other elements to get locked out. If there is a nutrient excess in your medium the initial flush will actually make things appear worse as those excess salts and organic materials loosen from the soil they are bound to and temporarily create a hot environment for the plants roots. Flush another time or two and then the build up should dissipate. However you are definitely coming up on the end of the plants life cycle so a reduction in available nutrients would be a good thing for your plant.

I did just realize that you are still applying the Grow Big if you are following the feed chart exactly. Cut that out, there is enough nitrogen in their products to get you through flower without the Grow Big.
 
AutoGuy

AutoGuy

7
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Thanks for the advice Smoking Gun :)

1) CO2 - tank, regulator.
2) I have been applying nutrients every time I am feeding the plant. Should I do every other? If yes, just bring my RO to 6.5 and nothing else?
3) Soil - Fox Farm Ocean Forest
4) Fox chart - Yes I am following chart but always adding more RO to keep PPM around 1200.

I totally missed that darker color of leaves. Just compared to old pics from that plant and actually there are much darker now than few weeks ago.

I will do another flush then.
 
Smoking Gun

Smoking Gun

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Ok lets do this one at a time

1) Do you have a proper controller/monitor to see how much CO2 is actually in the space or are you guessing based on what you have the regulator set at? Plus you are in a tent from what I can tell, how have you sealed it up to keep the CO2 in? What other air exchange are you doing?

2) Clearly you are giving nutrients every time you feed. Are you giving them nutrients every time you water? If so that is way too much, they recommend feeding only twice a week, but with a rich soil once a week is usually more than enough. As for plain water, I personally don't check pH or PPM when growing with organic or organic based (which is what the Fox Farms nutrients are) for several reasons. Digital meters will never really give an accurate measurement of the pH or PPM; both readings are based upon the electro-conductivity of the solution and most organic molecules will have a neutral charge and won't show up when given the reading. So your meter could read 1200 ppm but in reality you are applying 2000 ppm, and with pH the reading could be 4.5 but in reality its 7.0 all because those organic particles are not being read. So I typically go light on the nutrient applications and adjust according to what the plant is telling me. One of the other factors when dealing with organic/organic based nutrients as that they are meant to build up in the soil over time and break down giving the plants nutrients over an extended period. The main principle behind organic growing is that we are feeding the soil and the soil biology not the plants. And I never pH adjust plain water, but that is just me.

3) Ocean forest is a pretty nutrient rich soil on its own. This means you need to provide less external (bottled) nutrients to the plants because there is already enough for them to feed on in the soil. So a once a week application of nutrients should be all you need.

4) So the chart is really just a guideline, I usually recommend people cut everything in half at first and see how the plants respond. They will let you know if they want more. Also, are you using the whole line-up or just the base 3 bottles. What I really care about is if you are using Microbe Brew or Kangaroots at all.
 
AutoGuy

AutoGuy

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1) I am using Day and Night CO2 Monitor and Controller inside tent that is set within range 1350 - 1500. Besides that I have a PAR meter to compare it. CO2 is only activating during lights on.
As a air circulation I am using 2 clip on fans(6 inch). To protect from overheating I have a Cloudline Inline Duct Fan that is activating only when temp reach 85.
Tent - I have a 1 vent that is slightly open, very minimal. I can tell that tent is completely sealed. I will post pics from my tent setup later this weekend.

2) Yes I was giving nutrients every time I was watering. I see that was too much. I will cut nutrients to 1 feed per week only. I believe I do have a pretty accurate PH meter and Ill continue adjusting PH to 6.5.
As a nutrients build up in soil I didn't know that. Like I mentioned I am beginner grower. It looks like I focused more on tents setup than the plant itself. Well thats a learning curve :)

3) I start feeding them after 2 weeks. I knew the Fox soil is rich in nutrients but I wasn't sure for how long they least. I did some research online and that what some people recommended

4) I didn't have complete list of nutrients at the beginning.
Week 1-4/5 : (3 base) big bloom, grow big, tiger bloom and Calmag
Week 5-6: complete whole line list plus Calmag and I added molasses 2 times. I have use Kangaroots twice. Microbe Brew was never used.
While mixing nutrient I did everything per 2 gallons, so potency was mostly between 50-70%

I will do the flush again. Since Monday should I start feeding them from week 7 on fox chart? Like you mentioned I cut Grow Big.
 
Smoking Gun

Smoking Gun

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1) I am using Day and Night CO2 Monitor and Controller inside tent that is set within range 1350 - 1500. Besides that I have a PAR meter to compare it. CO2 is only activating during lights on.
As a air circulation I am using 2 clip on fans(6 inch). To protect from overheating I have a Cloudline Inline Duct Fan that is activating only when temp reach 85.
Tent - I have a 1 vent that is slightly open, very minimal. I can tell that tent is completely sealed. I will post pics from my tent setup later this weekend.

2) Yes I was giving nutrients every time I was watering. I see that was too much. I will cut nutrients to 1 feed per week only. I believe I do have a pretty accurate PH meter and Ill continue adjusting PH to 6.5.
As a nutrients build up in soil I didn't know that. Like I mentioned I am beginner grower. It looks like I focused more on tents setup than the plant itself. Well thats a learning curve :)

3) I start feeding them after 2 weeks. I knew the Fox soil is rich in nutrients but I wasn't sure for how long they least. I did some research online and that what some people recommended

4) I didn't have complete list of nutrients at the beginning.
Week 1-4/5 : (3 base) big bloom, grow big, tiger bloom and Calmag
Week 5-6: complete whole line list plus Calmag and I added molasses 2 times. I have use Kangaroots twice. Microbe Brew was never used.
While mixing nutrient I did everything per 2 gallons, so potency was mostly between 50-70%

I will do the flush again. Since Monday should I start feeding them from week 7 on fox chart? Like you mentioned I cut Grow Big.
Ok, so I think keeping this numbered is a good way to keep things straight.

1)Aim to have your CO2 PPM closer to 1000, 1500 is too high; yes I know that is what a lot of people will recommend, but over the years I have seen people have better success at 1000 so that is always my recommendation. Its good you have a controller, a lot of people forget that piece of equipment early on. As for your PAR meter PAR stands for Photosynthetically Active Radiation, so it has nothing to do with your CO2. PAR is a reading of how much usable light you have available in your space.

Since you are running CO2 you will need to keep the air exchange to a minimum in your space, but you will still need to do some exchange. I would set the exhaust fan to run for 10 min once every 2 hours. This will pull out any excess gasses and will allow the new CO2 you are pumping in to fill that space. Exhausting this air will also pull excess humidity out of the tent. Once your plants are filling the tent humidity will rise quickly and become problematic. And then there is the night time, if you are not exhausting old air and bringing in fresh air your plants are suffocating when the lights are off. Plants are using the CO2 when lights are on because they are performing photosynthesis, this process is not going on at night which does mean that levels of O2 must be higher during the night than in relation to the day time. Again, if you have no air coming in to your space at night the plants are suffering.

Ultimately you tried to set your tent up like a room rather than a tent; they are not the same kind of environment. Personally in my tent I have my exhaust running 24/7. I do also have a small intake fan that runs also, but I could also have a passive intake if I snaked a run of 4" ducting through the same port I have the intake fan in; the exhaust fan would suck the air in passively through the ducting. I use no additional CO2 in this scenario.

2)The accuracy of your meter is irrelevant; if the molecules do not have a charge the meter you have will not read it accurately. I don't care if you spend $500 on a meter it will not read it accurately. You do not have to take my word on this, do your own test, give some plants food that you have checked the pH and balance it accordingly and then give others un checked food, see if there is any difference in how your plants turn out.

To me it feels completely obvious that nutrients will build up in soil, that is how soil is built and sustained in nature. So overlooking that is highly problematic. With Fox Farm nutrients you are applying both immediately available nutrients as well as organic inputs that enhance the soil and takes time to break down. So what you are applying is meant to get into and become part of the soil. Also at the top of the feed chart it does say to feed twice a week. Look into cation exchange capacity (CEC), this is how soil absorbs and releases nutrients and is important to have a cursory understanding of this when working in soil.

3) Waiting until 2 weeks after planting was the correct move, particularly when using Ocean Forest. Ocean Forest has a considerable amount of nutrients contained within the soil. If using Ocean Forest I prefer using it on plants that have a well established root zone, these are going to be plants that are going into flower or are becoming mothers. I am a bigger fan of Happy Frog as it does not have as much built in nutrition; I find it easier for young plants to root into without problems and for older plants the lower amount of organic inputs allows for me to apply what I need when I feel I need it rather than relying on the soil to already contain what I need. But this is just my preference on the matter, not any absolute.

4)If you have the Microbe Brew give a the plants some, the beneficial microbes it will provide will help put your soil back into balance. You should be using the Microbe Brew and/or Kangaroots once a week from week 1 right up to the flush. It can be applied separately from the other food, so on a "plain water" day. Personally I would be using the Microbe Brew as the first feeding rather than waiting for week 3 to apply it. We want beneficial microbes doing their job in the soil right from the start; they will help give your plants a proper environment to thrive in.

For now I would say skip ahead to week 10 of the chart plus the Kelp me Kelp You from week 8 if you have it. I also would say you are only going to do 2, max 3 more applications of nutrients. Your plants are at least half way through their bloom cycle and I personally recommend a 2 week flush to finish out the plants life. We want the plants to use up their stored nutrients plus anything else that is bound into the soil. 2 weeks of no additional input will help us achieve this goal.

I have a lot of issues with the Fox Farm feed chart, a lot of it doesn't make a lot of sense to me when they apply certain things. If using their nutrients I would make some adjustments to that feed chart, but that also comes from an understanding of what is being applied to the soil and what the function of those inputs are. Anyone can follow a recipe but that does not make that person a chef; the same is true for growing, you can follow a feed chart but those charts rarely if ever offer a greater understanding of why you are applying the things you are. If you understand what you are using and what its functions are you will be able to do a lot more with the ingredients you are using.

Do a lot more reading (not on Cannabis forums or Cannabis specific articles) on the subject of soil biology and what plants require and you will get a lot further with your grows.
 
Moshmen

Moshmen

8,218
313
Soil easy and hard all at the same time! Autos usually don’t like too many nutes , I’ve been where your at and these guys got u!
 
AutoGuy

AutoGuy

7
3
Smoking Gun,

1) First of all I made a typo. I have another PPM meter not PAR. My bad.
I am using Bestwa 3000w LED lights. Following their char I am between 1000 - 1200 PAR.
Humidity is not the issue. I am using dehumidifier and always stays between 50-60%

I will set exhaust per your recommendation. Besides that I will reduce PPM to keep between 1000-1200 from now.

2) As a accuracy of my meter Ill do test on next grow. I do not want to stress plans anymore. I was always adjusting to 6.5 and at the begging didn't have any issues with that.
Whats really ad is while adjusting RO to 6.5 ph I had to drop just few dot`s but with nutrients that was around 10-15ml... I do not know what is the reason for that.

3) Ill definitely do more research about soil / correct nutrients. I was following chart only because It had so good reviews.

Summary
I did flush recently. For last few days I was watering only. It looks like plant growing well. There are no any new "burned" leaves, except some I already had it. For next week Ill apply low amount of nutrients from week 10(once only), after that "Micro Brew" twice and RO only till the end.

What you wrote in here is totally new "level" for me. Thank You for brief explanation and good advice.
That was my first "grow" and I can tell I learn a lot from it. I know I am not going to make same mistakes again.

For my next project I am planing to grow "Gorilla Glue Autoflower by ILGM".
IF you have any advice for that strain I would really appreciate.

Thank You for everything! :)
 
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AutoGuy

AutoGuy

7
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Hello Fellas!

From you professional opinion.
Is that ready to be harvest? I think they may need 1 more week. Currently finishing week 9.
Let me know what do you think :)
 
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Smoking Gun

Smoking Gun

2,235
263
All in all I would say you have a minimum of 3 more weeks on those. The plant in picture 2 looks like you could harvest it in two weeks after a flush period, but the other pictures show plants that need a few more weeks, particularly the plant in picture 1; that one looks like its just starting to pack on the weight.
 
UrbanGardener

UrbanGardener

176
28
Let them go at least two more weeks longer, try and be be patient. You'll be rewarded with a more size and quality.
 
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