Root Aphids, Something else, or have I lost my ability to grow?

[Smokeyjojackson]

I have a newly built room that is sealed with Co2 4kw of flower power and 1.2kw of veg. I currently have 4 flowering plants and approx 30 seedlings and 5 plants at 7 weeks of veg roughly. I am dealing with what appears to be multiple issues, and am looking for some help before I just burn the place to the ground.

Room condition are 75-82F
Humidity 40-50% (can raise or lower if needed)
Co2 between 1250-1500ppm with lights on roughly 600 with lights off
General organics full line of veg and bloom nutes at full strength.

I noticed a couple Thripes the other day when I was cloning as well as the beginning of PM. I hit everyone with the strongest dose of Azamax (foliar) advisable, and started the Sulphur burn the next day.

Since this was done I have seen the grow tips curl and shrivel, and have begun to see rapid yellowing in veg and flower. My first assumption was I burned them with the sulphur, which in my mind caused the curling tips.

I left about 10-12 plants out of the sulphur burn as they were new cuttings and those cuttings did not curl after the Azamax treatment, so my powers of observation pointed to the Sulphur as the problem with curling.


There has also been no yellowing of leaves on the cuttings, they are healthy and green. I was looking around last night and found a thread on here about Root Aphids and the pictures that went along with it looked very familiar to my last grow and, what is currently happening with the new one.

I have a few years growing experience but this is my second time dealing with these "phantom" deficiencies, and I was at a loss till I spotted the root aphid thread last night, found here

My plants and experience seems very similar to whats going on in the root aphid thread, and I am wondering what the brain trust at THCfarmer thought about it? To sum it all up, I think I have multiple issues going on here, and I am trying to determine just what they are so as to battle them effectively.:sign0065:

I appreciate any and all help you can offer. I intend to try the treatments used in the thread I referenced earlier unless someone see's something that I don't thats going on here.

Smoke

 

[Confuten1]

First off I could be tripping ( I am on a low dose of shrooms, testing em out for next weeks Vegas trip) but I swear I read in a couple places that u shouldn't use azamax and burners together . Someone else please confirm.
2nd, those leaf pics do look likes leafs if my plants when I had root aphids, then again those leafs look like every diffiency a plant can have so it could be alot of things. Have u done a root autopsy on a plant showing those symptoms?
Btw we run a very similar set up, i also use that styrofoam insulation.

Confu...

 

[Smokeyjojackson]

Well I know that you should not run sulphur with Neem but I am not sure about Azamax. I agree it looks like pretty much every deficiency you could have, but this all just started popping up within the last few days.
I should add that these plants were moved from 1.2kw of MH to 4kw of HPS so they are receiving much more light than before. I read that root aphids start showing more problems when the plants start getting more light. I basically am using my bloom room to veg under more light till I get my plant numbers where I want them. I appreciate the imfo and enjoy your trip!!

 

[Confuten1]

I say dig threw the roots of a plant u were gonna scrap neways use some magnification( I like the old school thick glass rounds with a handle.) c what u find if u c emm u know u got em and then the question is do u scrap all the plants and start over or wage war!!!

Confu...

 

[Smokeyjojackson]

I dug through one plant that had been giving me dirty looks for the last week or so. I used a 30x scope but saw absolutely nothing moving on any of the roots. that I looked at. I am starting to think maybe it was the heavy dose of Azamax, and the sulphur treatments right after.

I watered everything with 6.45 water tonight, no nutes. The mother I cloned from is fading fast so I will probably look at her roots when she dies off in about 2 days at this rate. I am frustrated but not ready to give up. My nutes are always Ph'd to between 6.3 and 6.8. I usually go higher one day lower the next. Just trying to add any pertinent info I might have left out during my fit of frustration.

Any and all thoughts are welcome!

Smoke...

 

[Capulator]

You burned your plants with a sulfur azamax combo.

You can't burn sulfur when there are traces of oil on the leaves. This includes neem oil or other horticultural oil.

I woudl veg them a while, they are gonna need time to recover.

 

[Smokeyjojackson]

You burned your plants with a sulfur azamax combo.

You can't burn sulfur when there are traces of oil on the leaves. This includes neem oil or other horticultural oil.

I woudl veg them a while, they are gonna need time to recover.

Lesson learned...

Thats the conclusion I reached as well after the autopsy last night. It is nice to know I don't have any root aphids though!

I appreciate you stopping in and taking a look!

Smoke...

 

[Capulator]

Next time you want to do that, you need to give them about a week after the azamax to be safe, or spray them with regular water so there is no residue n the leaves.

 

[Tokenblack]

First Pic-Nitrogen Toxicity in late flowering.
*In the middle to the end of the flowering stage, plants frequently show a N deficiency. Theyre using the nutrients that were stored in the leaves and droppin their oldest, bottom fan leaves. To prevent the deficiency from getting extreme, switch over to bloom nutrients gradually unless the bloom fertilizer contains some Nitro.
(Solution)-flush your nutes and run a pH balanced water PPM balanced, add a small
amount of a 3% mixture of Hydrogen Peroxide so that you can burn off the bad
microbes and clean off your root structure so that when you introduce your new (low powered) nutes, your roots will be fresh for nute uptake

Second Pic-Classic case of Nitrogen deficiency (odd because im guessing your trying to do a SCROG method) hence there being such a large gap in your nutrient problems with a single crop...no worries....flush for one week and give half-dose of whatever week in the feeding schedule you "were" in for two week for recovery, then go on to the following week of your regular schedule.

(((MAKE SURE YOU HAVE TREATED YOUR WATER CORRECTLY)))
*If your using just tap water then leave your water out in some container (lid open) for 24-36 hours so that the Chlorine AND the Chloramine can evaporate from the water-pH balance your water, add your nutes "separatelyand dilluted" (nute lockout remember) then add to your control bucket or resevoir depending on your hydro system. (((or spend a little extra dough and get yourself a reverse osmosis system for your water needs....much easier)

THIRD AND FORTH PIC SETS- You have got yourself two problems, Manganese and Phosphorous deficiency.

Unless you got the time and the effort to get some better research and knowledge for reference in these easy and common problems, ya might wanna just start over with a new crop....(soak your seeds in distilled water till they taproot, then plant in "Dutchmaster's" A.P.S. solution-soaked rockwool fiber till they become seedlings)

Check your plants every two hours during their light photoperiod and every three hours in their night photoperiod (get yourself a CFL-"Green" lightbulb for working light, it wont interrupt your plants growing schedules.

Last point-you have the beginnings of hermaphroditic plants beginning from bad nutrients and a bad photoperiod.

*Easy tip-"Stop turning on the lights in your grow room to show off your grow room to your buddies in your pride of your green thumb"

(For each person that knows of your growOp include your chance of being caught up 10%, therefore if 10 people know....sit on your doorstep and wait for the cops!)

Not coming down on ya or nuthin just keep it on the low-low and learn your nutrients, stay with a specific brand and NEVER change brands in between growths, and DONT add any OTHER micro nute from other companies hoping it will UP the potency or yield-if thats the case, get you some UVB lights as secondary to your 600W HPS....

any other questions hit me up....

 

[Smokeyjojackson]

First Pic-Nitrogen Toxicity in late flowering.
*In the middle to the end of the flowering stage, plants frequently show a N deficiency. Theyre using the nutrients that were stored in the leaves and droppin their oldest, bottom fan leaves. To prevent the deficiency from getting extreme, switch over to bloom nutrients gradually unless the bloom fertilizer contains some Nitro.
(Solution)-flush your nutes and run a pH balanced water PPM balanced, add a small
amount of a 3% mixture of Hydrogen Peroxide so that you can burn off the bad
microbes and clean off your root structure so that when you introduce your new (low powered) nutes, your roots will be fresh for nute uptake

Second Pic-Classic case of Nitrogen deficiency (odd because im guessing your trying to do a SCROG method) hence there being such a large gap in your nutrient problems with a single crop...no worries....flush for one week and give half-dose of whatever week in the feeding schedule you "were" in for two week for recovery, then go on to the following week of your regular schedule.

(((MAKE SURE YOU HAVE TREATED YOUR WATER CORRECTLY)))
*If your using just tap water then leave your water out in some container (lid open) for 24-36 hours so that the Chlorine AND the Chloramine can evaporate from the water-pH balance your water, add your nutes "separatelyand dilluted" (nute lockout remember) then add to your control bucket or resevoir depending on your hydro system. (((or spend a little extra dough and get yourself a reverse osmosis system for your water needs....much easier)

THIRD AND FORTH PIC SETS- You have got yourself two problems, Manganese and Phosphorous deficiency.

Unless you got the time and the effort to get some better research and knowledge for reference in these easy and common problems, ya might wanna just start over with a new crop....(soak your seeds in distilled water till they taproot, then plant in "Dutchmaster's" A.P.S. solution-soaked rockwool fiber till they become seedlings)

Check your plants every two hours during their light photoperiod and every three hours in their night photoperiod (get yourself a CFL-"Green" lightbulb for working light, it wont interrupt your plants growing schedules.

Last point-you have the beginnings of hermaphroditic plants beginning from bad nutrients and a bad photoperiod.

*Easy tip-"Stop turning on the lights in your grow room to show off your grow room to your buddies in your pride of your green thumb"

(For each person that knows of your growOp include your chance of being caught up 10%, therefore if 10 people know....sit on your doorstep and wait for the cops!)

Not coming down on ya or nuthin just keep it on the low-low and learn your nutrients, stay with a specific brand and NEVER change brands in between growths, and DONT add any OTHER micro nute from other companies hoping it will UP the potency or yield-if thats the case, get you some UVB lights as secondary to your 600W HPS....

any other questions hit me up....

No offense but most of your assumptions, and info is way off.

The first picture is of a plant in veg, so it cannot be N toxicity in late flower.

The second picture is actually of the same plant so, toxicity or deficiency, which are we going with?

Which picture leads you to believe that I have a hermaphroditic plant? The leaves on the plate, the pictures of the undergrowth of a vegging plant, or the top of a sulphur burned plant in veg?

I won't argue that there might be some deficiencies but I do argue about your diagnosis.

I have thripe's and had a touch of PM, did you even read the original post?

Time and research? I have been growing for years friend, you are making a ton of assumptions.

Don't tell my friends? (the only solid info yet)

My 600w HPS? I run 4 1kw in flower?

Are you even responding to the correct post?

I appreciate the sentiment, but next time you suggest someone scrap a grow, make sure you have half a clue.
:sign0065:

 

[mittenmedgrow]

I've done something similar. Sprayed with serenade then a couple days later hit them with a hi concentration of azamax mixed with d.m. saturator. Burned the shit out of them. I think your right on with your diagnosis.

 

[Capulator]

First Pic-Nitrogen Toxicity in late flowering.
*In the middle to the end of the flowering stage, plants frequently show a N deficiency. Theyre using the nutrients that were stored in the leaves and droppin their oldest, bottom fan leaves. To prevent the deficiency from getting extreme, switch over to bloom nutrients gradually unless the bloom fertilizer contains some Nitro.
(Solution)-flush your nutes and run a pH balanced water PPM balanced, add a small
amount of a 3% mixture of Hydrogen Peroxide so that you can burn off the bad
microbes and clean off your root structure so that when you introduce your new (low powered) nutes, your roots will be fresh for nute uptake

Second Pic-Classic case of Nitrogen deficiency (odd because im guessing your trying to do a SCROG method) hence there being such a large gap in your nutrient problems with a single crop...no worries....flush for one week and give half-dose of whatever week in the feeding schedule you "were" in for two week for recovery, then go on to the following week of your regular schedule.

(((MAKE SURE YOU HAVE TREATED YOUR WATER CORRECTLY)))
*If your using just tap water then leave your water out in some container (lid open) for 24-36 hours so that the Chlorine AND the Chloramine can evaporate from the water-pH balance your water, add your nutes "separatelyand dilluted" (nute lockout remember) then add to your control bucket or resevoir depending on your hydro system. (((or spend a little extra dough and get yourself a reverse osmosis system for your water needs....much easier)

THIRD AND FORTH PIC SETS- You have got yourself two problems, Manganese and Phosphorous deficiency.

Unless you got the time and the effort to get some better research and knowledge for reference in these easy and common problems, ya might wanna just start over with a new crop....(soak your seeds in distilled water till they taproot, then plant in "Dutchmaster's" A.P.S. solution-soaked rockwool fiber till they become seedlings)

Check your plants every two hours during their light photoperiod and every three hours in their night photoperiod (get yourself a CFL-"Green" lightbulb for working light, it wont interrupt your plants growing schedules.

Last point-you have the beginnings of hermaphroditic plants beginning from bad nutrients and a bad photoperiod.

*Easy tip-"Stop turning on the lights in your grow room to show off your grow room to your buddies in your pride of your green thumb"

(For each person that knows of your growOp include your chance of being caught up 10%, therefore if 10 people know....sit on your doorstep and wait for the cops!)

Not coming down on ya or nuthin just keep it on the low-low and learn your nutrients, stay with a specific brand and NEVER change brands in between growths, and DONT add any OTHER micro nute from other companies hoping it will UP the potency or yield-if thats the case, get you some UVB lights as secondary to your 600W HPS....

any other questions hit me up....

LOL!!!

Watering your plants with h2o2 will also kill all yoru good microbes...

Plants do not show any N deficiency unless you are locking out or underfeeding. This has nothing to do with what stage of flowering you are in.

If you soak your seeds you will drown them.

Nice 10% rule.

I have changed brands in between grows, and not skipped a beat.

Im not trying to come down on you or anything..... but...

 

[Smokeyjojackson]

Small update. Plants looked good after the second Azamax treatment which I coincided with a soil drench. Found a few wandering thrips yesterday while doing maintanence. Today will be the third treatment, and I am using SNS 203 this round. I have been treating every 3 days with a soil drench in the middle. I hope to end the cycle soon.. Damn Thrips..

 

[Smokeyjojackson]

Came in when the lights came on and found them on the seedlings again. I really hoped for better results from the SNS 203, finding them happily munching away on leaves sprayed 6 hours before is disheartening. I will keep rotating the sprays and maybe introduce some ladybugs because they are cute and cuddly.

 

[Seamaiden]

LOL!!!

Watering your plants with h2o2 will also kill all yoru good microbes...

Plants do not show any N deficiency unless you are locking out or underfeeding. This has nothing to do with what stage of flowering you are in.

If you soak your seeds you will drown them.

Nice 10% rule.

I have changed brands in between grows, and not skipped a beat.

Im not trying to come down on you or anything..... but...

No, you won't. I am not a fan of distilled water, but the seeds won't drown.

Just sayin'!

 

[theTinker]

Shame about the thripes, but im delighted u didnt get root aphids and it was a accidental mistake which caused ur fast death approaching circumstances.

Good catch on it.