Root Rot Prevention Product Application Rates For The UC

desertsquirrel · Aug 19, 2011

Well it appears that the Sure-to-grow portion of our side-by-side is starting to fail us. One maybe 2 trees are/have fallen to a root rot (mostly stem rot) issue stemming from their tendency to hold water against the massive trunks.

This event has caused me to re-evaluate H2O2 and bleach application rates, and left me scratching my head.

5ml 30% H2O2 / 1000 ml H2O = 5 ppm H2O2 X .3 (or 30%) = 1.5 ppm / 3.785 (gal) = .39 ppm. Yes thats .39 ppm per gallon.

So the recommendations i have seen are between 30 and 50 ppm which means it would take 75 or 125 ml of H2O2 respectively. Far too much to be cost effective.

Similarly with sodium hypochlorite (bleach) At 6%:

.39 / 5 = 0.078 (with an AG rec of .5-1%) = 7-12 ml/gal

Though this solution is much more economical, application rates this high have been problematic in the UC giving way to toxicity issues. And likewise lower applications do not seem to deal with the problem

Next is zinc/copper based hydro products; lets look at zone:

.01 % copper @ 1ml per gal =1 / 3.785 X .01 = 0.002642 actual ppm copper. haha

We ordered a product that Hermition turned us onto w/8% copper that might help more.

This being said we are looking into an ozone unit, which from what i understand generates H2O2. If anyone has any info on either ozone gennys or application rates for these root products please chime in.

Buddy Hemphill · Aug 19, 2011

Would Oxidate help? It kills a plethera of molds and fungus.

Innov8tr · Aug 19, 2011

I cured in insane case of pythium using Pythoff (chloramine) at 1 ml per gallon...which is 1.5 strength. My pythium problem was caused by well water, which I read is really common for anyone else using well water. Clones and cuttings do not like it but larger plants have no issues with it. There is a test kit you can buy to make sure that you have the levels right but 1ml per gallon is really close to get the dosage high enough to work. Most if it's gone out of the system within 12 hrs or so b/c of the aeration of the UC. For curing a pythium problem I added once a day, first dose at 1ml per gallon, following days a little less (use test kit). As a maintenence dose I add it every 3-5 days and run with zone 2ml per gallon. I had a nasty case of pythium that I was throwing everything at, pythoff and zone at high strength seem to do just fine for me.

Did not work for me
hydrofungicide
h202
physan
root sheild
great white
RE
aqua sheild
commercial grade 6gpm UV on UC

I chill my topoff and water change water, dose it with pythoff, and use a UV on my ro machine, this probably helps too. I have a thread, how to defeat pythium, that I talk about doing this. If you want to fix your pythium problem just try my method for doing so, you commented on my thread that defeated was a strong word....well I'm still pythium free :)

Innov8tr · Aug 19, 2011

Take a look a these roots before and after. Believe it or not I saved these and got 7/8 of a pound per plant on a 6 site with 3k watts. Dan at CC couldn't believe it, he told me I should toss them after seeing the pic, luckily I didn't. Ended up being the biggest harvest I've ever had gram per watt.

MIway · Aug 19, 2011

What's the skinny DS? Hope all is well bro.

The ozone is o3, not h2o2... and I haven't a clue as to how you would get that into the root zone... and it does burn organic matter in concentration.

Just out of curiosity, which of the stg are you using... loose fill for the net pots? I used to play around with this stuff when they first came out.

bakershredhead · Aug 19, 2011

Hey DS check out Oxidate it is a H2o2 and peracetic acid. It has buffers in it also so it doesn't break down as fast as h2o2. They also make a product Zerotol that is even stronger but it's technically not for food crops. They have great customer service. You can send in water samples and they will test them for bacteria etc and let you know what rates and recommended products to use. Here's the linkhttp://www.biosafesystems.com I used it before in a SWC to save a plant that had gotten choked in the lower 5gl bucket and roots had died. I ripped all the roots off about 3gl worth and started adding Oxidate to the water. It ended up filling the bucket again. You can also use their products for keeping your room and equipment clean. I will be starting a UC run with the Oxidate at a ratio of 1-5000, which is around 53 ppm of H2o2. You can bump it up to 1-2000 for existing problems. I'm already using it in my Ebb tables which I'm
vegging in. I also just purchased a foot mat that you soak a Oxidate or other product with so when you go in and out of your room your shoes get sterilized.

mrdizzle · Aug 19, 2011

pythoff is bleach just 20x as expensive

I used to know the ratio, but I dont mess with RDWC for this exact reason, Im sure you can calculate it but its around 2ml of bleach per 10gals of water with give you the same % as pythoff

Buddy Hemphill · Aug 19, 2011

bakershredhead said:
Hey DS check out Oxidate it is a H2o2 and peracetic acid. It has buffers in it also so it doesn't break down as fast as h2o2. They also make a product Zerotol that is even stronger but it's technically not for food crops. They have great customer service. You can send in water samples and they will test them for bacteria etc and let you know what rates and recommended products to use. Here's the linkhttp://www.biosafesystems.com I used it before in a SWC to save a plant that had gotten choked in the lower 5gl bucket and roots had died. I ripped all the roots off about 3gl worth and started adding Oxidate to the water. It ended up filling the bucket again. You can also use their products for keeping your room and equipment clean. I will be starting a UC run with the Oxidate at a ratio of 1-5000, which is around 53 ppm of H2o2. You can bump it up to 1-2000 for existing problems. I'm already using it in my Ebb tables which I'm
vegging in. I also just purchased a foot mat that you soak a Oxidate or other product with so when you go in and out of your room your shoes get sterilized.

It also kills PM and is certified in CA and FLA to be sprayed 24 hours before harvest on food crops!!

The Fla and Cali certs suprised me when I read the label.

desertsquirrel · Aug 19, 2011

MIway said:
What's the skinny DS? Hope all is well bro.

The ozone is o3, not h2o2... and I haven't a clue as to how you would get that into the root zone... and it does burn organic matter in concentration.

Just out of curiosity, which of the stg are you using... loose fill for the net pots? I used to play around with this stuff when they first came out.

Hey whats up MI. Things are crazy as usual, but I'm healing up. How have you been man?

With a water genny the O3 breaks down into O2 and eventually just H2O, no?

MIway · Aug 19, 2011

Yeah, what you said! ;-)

Sorry bro... I was thinkin about the ozone gene's for the air systems; didn't actually know they used this for water treatments too!

Now I'm wondering... the air units use uv lamps to generate the o3... and the bigboy uv water sterilizers... are they also creating ozone within the water??? I was just under the impression the uv frequency is what was killing the pathogens, not the ozone. Is the ozone water treatment unique & distinct from uv water sterilization? Or just one in the same?

desertsquirrel · Aug 19, 2011

good question. =)

squarepusher · Aug 19, 2011

how about dissolved ozone in the water?

Innov8tr · Aug 19, 2011

mrdizzle said:
pythoff is bleach just 20x as expensive

I used to know the ratio, but I dont mess with RDWC for this exact reason, Im sure you can calculate it but its around 2ml of bleach per 10gals of water with give you the same % as pythoff

Pythoff is concentrated chloramine, not chlorine. Bleach will dissapte very quickly in the UC where chloramine is supposed to hang around a little longer.

mrdizzle · Aug 19, 2011

where does it say that it is chloramine? I havent looked at a bottle in over a year but I dont remember it saying it was chloramine

Innov8tr · Aug 19, 2011

mrdizzle said:
where does it say that it is chloramine? I havent looked at a bottle in over a year but I dont remember it saying it was chloramine

Shit I could be wrong. I thought that I read that on the bottle or somewhere but maybe not, the pdf says chlorine. I'll double check the bottle tomorrow.

Innov8tr · Aug 19, 2011

I found this link, I also read there are 2 different formulas but I only found that on a forum. They said one that uses monochloramine and one that uses chlorine.

Pythoff is based on monochloramine - a proven and trusted drinking water disinfectant used world wide. Monochloramine's popularity is based on the fact that it is a non toxic and long lived disinfectant. Being a long lived disinfectant is beneficial for hydroponics because this enables complete system disinfection - from the nutrient tank all the way through to the plant's roots. This property is not possessed by other disinfectants such as ozone and UV, simply because these agents do not form a stable residual disinfecting chemical in your nutrient solution.

Flairform PythOff Contains 0.5% monochloroamine. Chloroamine is used only because it is longer lived than chlorine and because OSHA has strict regualtions for companies preparing products with chlorine.

Unlike chlorine, which dissipates when water sits for a few days, chloramine may take weeks to disappear.

Flairform suggests that Pythoff be dosed at 0.1-0.2ml/ litre (1/12 - 1/6 tsp/gal). FlairForm suggests dosing the PythOff every 4 days.

mrdizzle · Aug 19, 2011

very interesting, I would go for the one with monochloramine no doubt

australia is up to their ears in rot, they come out with all the rot products

Innov8tr · Aug 19, 2011

I'm still going to check my bottle when I get back to the grow, I'm curious what I'm using. If I'm using the chlorine based formula it would make sense of why it dissaptes so quickly. It barely registers on the test just 12 hrs later.

mrdizzle · Aug 19, 2011

how are you checking the PPMs, I couldnt find ones that worked with the salts in the nute solution

Innov8tr · Aug 19, 2011

I use a pythoff test kit from flairform, really simple test.

Root Rot Prevention Product Application Rates For The UC

Root Rot Prevention Product Application Rates For The UC

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Root Rot Prevention Product Application Rates For The UC

Root Rot Prevention Product Application Rates For The UC

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