Running into Defiency after flushing?

Justooo · Feb 23, 2023

I’ve been flushing my two plants now due to overfeeding and lockout, so 2 flushes with 2.5 gal for each plant. I did this until the water had a slight brown tint in the runoff, I stopped flushing 2.5 weeks ago. And began to see these symptoms (left plant) 3 days ago. One plants leaves are still darker like there is still excess nitrogen(right plant) but it’s doing fine and the left plant has greened out and now is getting yellow leaves at the bottom growth and it’s leaves have started to taco and curl down and get spots in some areas. if it’s time add fert or do a worm tea I need to right away since I’m going organic. Any advice to fix this quick? It’s cannabizling fast and I need to act right away.

CannaGranny · Feb 23, 2023

I’m assuming that you are growing in soil? If so, what kind? What gave you the idea that it needed flushing? What size bags are you growing in?
A proper flush is three times the size of your grow container. Meaning if you are growing in a gallon bag it would take three gallons to flush.
What kind of a watering schedule are you on?

Justooo · Feb 23, 2023

CannaGranny said:
I’m assuming that you are growing in soil? If so, what kind? What gave you the idea that it needed flushing? What size bags are you growing in?
A proper flush is three times the size of your grow container. Meaning if you are growing in a gallon bag it would take three gallons to flush.
What kind of a watering schedule are you on?

Yes soil, fox farm in 5 gals. And because I had a nitrogen lockout, stunted growth, clawed tips, dark leaves, rusting leaves, etc. and everything was fine until a couple days ago, keep in mind I stopped flushing a while ago at this point already. and no I didn’t flush 10gal of water through the plants that’s just overkill, I watered until I got a good amount of run off and color of runoff began to lighten. I water when the soil becomes dry and container is light.

CannaGranny · Feb 23, 2023

Justooo said:
Yes soil, fox farm in 5 gals. And because I had a nitrogen lockout, stunted growth, clawed tips, dark leaves, rusting leaves, etc. and everything was fine until a couple days ago, keep in mind I stopped flushing a while ago at this point already. and no I didn’t flush 10gal of water through the plants that’s just overkill, I watered until I got a good amount of run off and color of runoff began to lighten. I water when the soil becomes dry and container is light.

Seems you know what your doing. Good luck, keep us posted.

Justooo · Feb 23, 2023

CannaGranny said:
Seems you know what your doing. Good luck, keep us posted.

Wait you didn’t respond to the question lol I don’t know what I’m doing, I need help. The left plant is cannibalizing and some leaves have taco shape and curling down. Some leaves also are yellowing and has spots. What should I do to resolve the issue? I fear it’s only going to get worse not better. Do I need to feed them fert? Haven’t top dressed anything since January 8.

PerfecTrader · Feb 23, 2023

Justooo said:
Wait you didn’t respond to the question lol I don’t know what I’m doing, I need help. The left plant is cannibalizing and some leaves have taco shape and curling down. Some leaves also are yellowing and has spots. What should I do to resolve the issue? I fear it’s only going to get worse not better. Do I need to feed them fert? Haven’t top dressed anything since January 8.

And she doesn't have to so please keep that in mind. She has grown for likely 3-4 times as long as you have lived. She said a proper flush is 3x pot size, so would be 15 gal to which you replied "and no I didn’t flush 10gal of water through the plants that’s just overkill," and that was after definitely acting like you know what you are doing by saying "And because I had a nitrogen lockout, stunted growth, clawed tips, dark leaves, rusting leaves, etc. and everything was fine until a couple days ago, keep in mind I stopped flushing a while ago at this point already"
She was genuinely trying to help and I can see why she simply wished you the best. You come off a bit WolvyBerzerk Style because you are in panic mode. This the Farm/Dojo homie. We a family here and if you show respect you will be surprised what you can receive in return.

Justooo · Feb 23, 2023

PerfecTrader said:
And she doesn't have to so please keep that in mind. She has grown for likely 3-4 times as long as you have lived. She said a proper flush is 3x pot size, so would be 15 gal to which you replied "and no I didn’t flush 10gal of water through the plants that’s just overkill," and that was after definitely acting like you know what you are doing by saying "And because I had a nitrogen lockout, stunted growth, clawed tips, dark leaves, rusting leaves, etc. and everything was fine until a couple days ago, keep in mind I stopped flushing a while ago at this point already"
She was genuinely trying to help and I can see why she simply wished you the best. You come off a bit WolvyBerzerk Style because you are in panic mode. This the Farm/Dojo homie. We a family here and if you show respect you will be surprised what you can receive in return.

Lmaooo, I am sorry. I didn’t mean to come off aggressive, not my intention at all. I had just woke up when I typed that. And I was also just trying to make sure the message could get through without misinterpreting. sadly thru text you cannot determine tone. I was genuinely just trying to accurately communicate what was going on for the best advice. Sorry for the aggression/ making someone feel belittled not my intention. I am in panic mode cause I don’t know what to do.

GNick55 · Feb 23, 2023

one thing, flushing only hurt your grow..
i see no signs of nitrogen toxicity.. if anything watering too frequently and light a bit close..
and CLEAN up that mess.. geez that’ll cause problems!!..

Justooo · Feb 23, 2023

GNick55 said:
one thing, flushing only hurt your grow..
i see no signs of nitrogen toxicity.. if anything watering too frequently and light a bit close..
and CLEAN up that mess.. geez that’ll cause problems!!..

Any advice as to what’s causing the taco and curling down if the leaves? And yellowing of lower growth? And the spots?
Is it a deficiency beginning?

PerfecTrader · Feb 23, 2023

Just my opinion and likely way off. I'm a newb but have done what you did pretty much every grow. Whether too much water or too frequently, you caused the roots to choke from lack of proper oxygen leading to inefficient uptake of various nutes. I would listen to anyone but me and you will be fine

PerfecTrader · Feb 23, 2023

Justooo said:
Lmaooo, I am sorry. I didn’t mean to come off aggressive, not my intention at all. I had just woke up when I typed that. And I was also just trying to make sure the message could get through without misinterpreting. sadly thru text you cannot determine tone. I was genuinely just trying to accurately communicate what was going on for the best advice. Sorry for the aggression/ making someone feel belittled not my intention. I am in panic mode cause I don’t know what to do.

All good my man and you sound like I still do at times. The wisest here will tell you to Oooosah, smoke a phatty, and become one with the plant. You found the right place

BigBlonde · Feb 23, 2023

I think of tacoing as upward curling, but I could be wrong about that.

You may have light stress that shows up in older leaves first. Yellowing of lower leaves can also be caused by transfer of mobile nutrients due to a deficiency. Additionally, overwatering can cause nutrient lockout. I have had that problem. So, I don't favor flushing. These plants like surprisingly dry roots, except for regular deep waterings.

Others will probably have better ideas than mine, but I'd say decrease the light intensity and give the soil a chance to dry well before the next watering. In addition to lifting the pots, one can also watch the leaves for wilting to know when to water. The plants recover from a slight wilt rather well. I like to use a soil moisture meter, but I also watch for wilting.

I didn't see what nutrients you're using. Whatever, maybe a half dose next feeding might help, as well.

Almostthere · Feb 23, 2023

I feel like im seeing aphid damage. I could b wrong but scope underneath. What is your humidity and temps?

Justooo · Feb 23, 2023

BigBlonde said:
I think of tacoing as upward curling, but I could be wrong about that.

You may have light stress that shows up in older leaves first. Yellowing of lower leaves can also be caused by transfer of mobile nutrients due to a deficiency. Additionally, overwatering can cause nutrient lockout. I have had that problem. So, I don't favor flushing. These plants like surprisingly dry roots, except for regular deep waterings.

Others will probably have better ideas than mine, but I'd say decrease the light intensity and give the soil a chance to dry well before the next watering. In addition to lifting the pots, one can also watch the leaves for wilting to know when to water. The plants recover from a slight wilt rather well. I like to use a soil moisture meter, but I also watch for wilting.

I didn't see what nutrients you're using. Whatever, maybe a half dose next feeding might help, as well.

My line up is Coast of Maine 524 and down to earth 444 and dr earth 293 for bloom. I used a mix of 3tbps of CoM and 2tbps of DTE. Which was a mistake, I think were I messed up was adding too much. The packages said 1tbps per gallon. Which led to me flushing from lockout.

CannaGranny · Feb 23, 2023

Justooo said:
My line up is Coast of Maine 524 and down to earth 444 and dr earth 293 for bloom. I used a mix of 3tbps of CoM and 2tbps of DTE. Which was a mistake, I think were I messed up was adding too much. The packages said 1tbps per gallon. Which led to me flushing from lockout.

Okay first thing first. Why do you think you have lock out? Secondly most organic growers never experience this and it’s very detrimental to organic soil.
It actually does take three times the size of your container to actually flush and depending on run off testing sometimes as much as five times.
Your plants don’t look that bad, nothin that can’t be fixed. No one is dying today or even consuming itself. I know, I force mine to do just that at the end of the bloom cycle and it takes weeks.
Leaf clawing is caused by several factors. Too much N, as you pointed out, cold stress,heat stress, pests, over watering and just plain genetics.
Lets start with the obvious, if the bag is saturated let it throughly dry before watering again. Look her over for pests. Learn your temps high and lows day and night. Stop poking food in her. I seriously doubt your two tablespoons smacked her that hard with N and no others are showing that either. Most of all learn to properly water grow bags:

Grow Bags The Good The Bad & The Ugly

Grow bags. Seems everyone’s experience is a bit different. Some run with it, other’s struggle the entire grow and hate them! I love them and had to wonder why so many do not. Mainly it seems to all come down to watering practices and an understanding of the root zone. Pros of the bags: Allows...

www.thcfarmer.com

Take a breath, one thing at a time. I remember new grower panic.

CannaGranny · Feb 23, 2023

PerfecTrader said:
And she doesn't have to so please keep that in mind. She has grown for likely 3-4 times as long as you have lived. She said a proper flush is 3x pot size, so would be 15 gal to which you replied "and no I didn’t flush 10gal of water through the plants that’s just overkill," and that was after definitely acting like you know what you are doing by saying "And because I had a nitrogen lockout, stunted growth, clawed tips, dark leaves, rusting leaves, etc. and everything was fine until a couple days ago, keep in mind I stopped flushing a while ago at this point already"
She was genuinely trying to help and I can see why she simply wished you the best. You come off a bit WolvyBerzerk Style because you are in panic mode. This the Farm/Dojo homie. We a family here and if you show respect you will be surprised what you can receive in return.

Seems Grasshopper knows me all too well, right down to the line that set me off. I’m a forgiving soul tho..to a point.

Justooo · Feb 24, 2023

BigBlonde said:
I think of tacoing as upward curling, but I could be wrong about that.

You may have light stress that shows up in older leaves first. Yellowing of lower leaves can also be caused by transfer of mobile nutrients due to a deficiency. Additionally, overwatering can cause nutrient lockout. I have had that problem. So, I don't favor flushing. These plants like surprisingly dry roots, except for regular deep waterings.

Others will probably have better ideas than mine, but I'd say decrease the light intensity and give the soil a chance to dry well before the next watering. In addition to lifting the pots, one can also watch the leaves for wilting to know when to water. The plants recover from a slight wilt rather well. I like to use a soil moisture meter, but I also watch for wilting.

I didn't see what nutrients you're using. Whatever, maybe a half dose next feeding might help, as well.

My line up is Coast of Maine 524 and down to earth 444 and dr earth 293 for bloom. I used a mix of 3tbps of CoM and 2tbps of DTE. Which was a mistake, I think were I messed up was adding too much. But the packages said 1tbps per gallon. Which led to me flushing from lockout.

CannaGranny said:
Okay first thing first. Why do you think you have lock out? Secondly most organic growers never experience this and it’s very detrimental to organic soil.
It actually does take three times the size of your container to actually flush and depending on run off testing sometimes as much as five times.
Your plants don’t look that bad, nothin that can’t be fixed. No one is dying today or even consuming itself. I know, I force mine to do just that at the end of the bloom cycle and it takes weeks.
Leaf clawing is caused by several factors. Too much N, as you pointed out, cold stress,heat stress, pests, over watering and just plain genetics.
Lets start with the obvious, if the bag is saturated let it throughly dry before watering again. Look her over for pests. Learn your temps high and lows day and night. Stop poking food in her. I seriously doubt your two tablespoons smacked her that hard with N and no others are showing that either. Most of all learn to properly water grow bags:

Grow Bags The Good The Bad & The Ugly

Grow bags. Seems everyone’s experience is a bit different. Some run with it, other’s struggle the entire grow and hate them! I love them and had to wonder why so many do not. Mainly it seems to all come down to watering practices and an understanding of the root zone. Pros of the bags: Allows...

www.thcfarmer.com

Take a breath, one thing at a time. I remember new grower panic.

it could be heat/cold stress. Here in Virginia our weather has been wild, it’s near the end of winter but temps have been fluctuating from high 70s and even 80degrees yesterday. And drops to the 40s at night. That being said sometimes it will get to 85 degrees in my tent during the day but I’ll drop it to 80degrees with humidifier and in-line fan and usually 68-70 at night. Only option I have is to dial down the brightness to about 60 for my mars hydro fce3000. Drivers are already outside the tent. And my humidity without the humidifier is 38-45. But due to my schedule and not having a smart humidifier because I’m cheap lol, I am not always there to make sure the humidifier is going consistently so I do have fluctuations in humidity, mainly in the morning when the lights cut on.

Justooo · Feb 24, 2023

CannaGranny said:
Okay first thing first. Why do you think you have lock out? Secondly most organic growers never experience this and it’s very detrimental to organic soil.
It actually does take three times the size of your container to actually flush and depending on run off testing sometimes as much as five times.
Your plants don’t look that bad, nothin that can’t be fixed. No one is dying today or even consuming itself. I know, I force mine to do just that at the end of the bloom cycle and it takes weeks.
Leaf clawing is caused by several factors. Too much N, as you pointed out, cold stress,heat stress, pests, over watering and just plain genetics.
Lets start with the obvious, if the bag is saturated let it throughly dry before watering again. Look her over for pests. Learn your temps high and lows day and night. Stop poking food in her. I seriously doubt your two tablespoons smacked her that hard with N and no others are showing that either. Most of all learn to properly water grow bags:

Grow Bags The Good The Bad & The Ugly

Grow bags. Seems everyone’s experience is a bit different. Some run with it, other’s struggle the entire grow and hate them! I love them and had to wonder why so many do not. Mainly it seems to all come down to watering practices and an understanding of the root zone. Pros of the bags: Allows...

www.thcfarmer.com

Take a breath, one thing at a time. I remember new grower panic.

This is one of photos I dropped into an another forum and everyone was telling me it was a nitrogen lockout about 5-6 weeks ago

And ok I understand what you’re saying about the clawed leaves. My next question is what about the leaves becoming yellow and rusting? And the taco effect? Do you think the microbes may have been depleted and it’s causing inefficient nutrient uptake?

And I don’t believe I have pests but I’m going to check again, I’ve only run into fungus gnats in my home, which I’d soak mosquito bits in water and use that as prevention and it seems to work well and it’s still pretty cold out so I haven’t seen too many bugs around.

GNick55 · Feb 24, 2023

Justooo said:
This is one of photos I dropped into an another forum and everyone was telling me it was a nitrogen lockout about 5-6 weeks ago

And ok I understand what you’re saying about the clawed leaves. My next question is what about the leaves becoming yellow and rusting? And the taco effect? Do you think the microbes may have been depleted and it’s causing inefficient nutrient uptake?

And I don’t believe I have pests but I’m going to check again, I’ve only run into fungus gnats in my home, which I’d soak mosquito bits in water and use that as prevention and it seems to work well and it’s still pretty cold out so I haven’t seen too many bugs around.

haven’t seen too many around?
one bug in the tent is not good..
you can see by looking at those plants the roots are not growing, basically waaay over mothered, over handled too early..
watering too often, need airflow underneath those bags and lights too close..

Justooo · Feb 25, 2023

GNick55 said:
haven’t seen too many around?
one bug in the tent is not good..
you can see by looking at those plants the roots are not growing, basically waaay over mothered, over handled too early..
watering too often, need airflow underneath those bags and lights too close..

I’ll rephrase that, I haven’t seen any bugs. And Okay I have plates underneath them with holes cut in them. I’ll stop being cheap and get some stands, and I keep the lights 30 inches from the canopy is that not high enough???

Another question. When should I add nutrients? Before I flip to bloom?

Running into Defiency after flushing?

Running into Defiency after flushing?

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