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Are we talking Hermies here...or "S-1's"?
Maybe I'm the confused one. Sure wouldn't be the first time :rolleyes:
I thought S-1's were chemically produced via STS or colloidal silver. Spray a female clone....she becomes a male and offers pollen...another female clone of the same strain is pollenated....and S-1 (selfed) seeds are produced. No male chromosome is present...so no males will be produced.
A plant switching sex on it's own isn't an S-1...it's a Hermie. Bag seed is hermie seed. Offspring can go either way or hermie but they are not S-1 seeds.
That's the story I heard/have gone with.....and I have been making seeds via STS that >I< consider S-1's. Any seeds randomly made via hermie are hermie seed..not S-1 here.
Are we talking Hermies here...or "S-1's"?
Maybe I'm the confused one. Sure wouldn't be the first time :rolleyes:
I thought S-1's were chemically produced via STS or colloidal silver. Spray a female clone....she becomes a male and offers pollen...another female clone of the same strain is pollenated....and S-1 (selfed) seeds are produced. No male chromosome is present...so no males will be produced.
A plant switching sex on it's own isn't an S-1...it's a Hermie. Bag seed is hermie seed. Offspring can go either way or hermie but they are not S-1 seeds.
That's the story I heard/have gone with.....and I have been making seeds via STS that >I< consider S-1's. Any seeds randomly made via hermie are hermie seed..not S-1 here.
Botany[edit]
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Hylocereus undatus, a hermaphrodite plant with both carpels and stamens
Main article: Sexual reproduction in plants
Hermaphrodite is used in botany to describe a flower that has both staminate (male, pollen-producing) and carpellate (female, ovule-producing) parts. This condition is seen in many common garden plants. A closer analogy to hermaphroditism in botany is the presence of separate male and female flowers on the same individual—such plants are called monoecious. Monoecy is especially common in conifers, but occurs in only about 7% of angiosperm species.[18]
Think about a plant that selfed every time no matter conditions, in a thousand years that plant would be near the same, since it only had its own genes to use. Even if there were only males and this was the only female, every year it would self drop seeds and a few of those would be the exsact same plant. Do you feel it or am I lost?
I'm hearing ya soser....and I feel it BD.
All I (can do is go from experience) "know" is that seeds from >forced< plants/controlled conditions (in my garden, at least) seem far more "stable" than seeds from plants that trigger on their own...for >whatever< reason(s). Brian's example is a good one....and I concur in a mono-crop/isolated situation such as he described that the plants would be the same...but some folks have stated that the "bag seed" they found is an S-1. Commercial bag seed? Does this play out the same way in your minds, guys? How do you prove lineage in such a situation? Where is the line between "hermie" and "S-1"....or is there one?
If not..and there is no line.....why aren't more folks selling randomly generated "S-1" seeds? (Ok...so some are...but that's another thread...;) in itself) From what I see, >most< folks who sell "S-1" seed target specific plants with a specific purpose to generate a specific product. (I call an "S-1") Are folks saying random seeds are the same thing? (S-1"?)
I hope I expressed that correctly. Kinda hard after hitting that wax grit gave me...LOL..... :woot:
In NJ back in the 90s, it was harder to get elite clones. All my grows were from random s1 bag seed I purchased. Most of what I purchased was killer hydro from NYC...mostly done from clones.. Never did I have a male from an s1. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I grew hundreds of plants and they all turned out female.......not to mention, most of the plants would drop one or two more seeds after growing them out.
Nightmare- If you only use 24 hours of light, how do you know you get more females using 24 hours light, compared to 18 hours? I grow all my seeds under 24 hours and for me, it depends on what cross I'm growing. I've read a few times the more stable a genome is, the less of a need there is to produce male offspring. IME, I have found that the f1 generation is around 70/30 fem, while my f2s and f3s from the same line can be closer to 40/60 fem. I've seen this pattern over the last several years.
In NJ back in the 90s, it was harder to get elite clones. All my grows were from random s1 bag seed I purchased. Most of what I purchased was killer hydro from NYC...mostly done from clones.. Never did I have a male from an s1. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I grew hundreds of plants and they all turned out female.......not to mention, most of the plants would drop one or two more seeds after growing them out.
Nightmare- If you only use 24 hours of light, how do you know you get more females using 24 hours light, compared to 18 hours? I grow all my seeds under 24 hours and for me, it depends on what cross I'm growing. I've read a few times the more stable a genome is, the less of a need there is to produce male offspring. IME, I have found that the f1 generation is around 70/30 fem, while my f2s and f3s from the same line can be closer to 40/60 fem. I've seen this pattern over the last several years.
I have ran different light cycles and I almost always get more females. Usually 80% of the time. I don't get anymore females from 24 hrs of light or 18. I get faster growth from 24hrs. That is one of the reasons why I think sex is predetermined. It's like scratching a lottery ticket in my eyes. I do think there are slightly more females than males just like in nature.
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