S1 - Discussion

[sky high]

Are we talking Hermies here...or "S-1's"?

Maybe I'm the confused one. Sure wouldn't be the first time :rolleyes:

I thought S-1's were chemically produced via STS or colloidal silver. Spray a female clone....she becomes a male and offers pollen...another female clone of the same strain is pollenated....and S-1 (selfed) seeds are produced. No male chromosome is present...so no males will be produced.

A plant switching sex on it's own isn't an S-1...it's a Hermie. Bag seed is hermie seed. Offspring can go either way or hermie but they are not S-1 seeds.

That's the story I heard/have gone with.....and I have been making seeds via STS that >I< consider S-1's. Any seeds randomly made via hermie are hermie seed..not S-1 here.

 

[SonOfDaMourning]

Yes a s1 male can arise! I just went through this with some s1 bagseed, out of 5 I got one male. Though he would herm but didn't yet only kept him for a week sexed in veg.

 

[SonOfDaMourning]

Btw imo hermis are s1's regardless how they are made. You think the girl uses a parallel sex chromosomes depending if its was light stress or chemically stressed. "I think ill wear my red dress tonight", think about it. Your body uses the same functions to heal regardless of it was boosted by vitamins, you don't suddenly heal from a different source, its all the same just influenced!

 

[soserthc1]

Are we talking Hermies here...or "S-1's"?

Maybe I'm the confused one. Sure wouldn't be the first time :rolleyes:

I thought S-1's were chemically produced via STS or colloidal silver. Spray a female clone....she becomes a male and offers pollen...another female clone of the same strain is pollenated....and S-1 (selfed) seeds are produced. No male chromosome is present...so no males will be produced.

A plant switching sex on it's own isn't an S-1...it's a Hermie. Bag seed is hermie seed. Offspring can go either way or hermie but they are not S-1 seeds.

That's the story I heard/have gone with.....and I have been making seeds via STS that >I< consider S-1's. Any seeds randomly made via hermie are hermie seed..not S-1 here.

As usual sky you usually always have some good impute and its sounds reasonable but the term s1 was around alot longer than the sts stuff was ..... thoughts anyone else ?
If you have only female plants in the room and end up with 1 or 2 seeds which has happened several times to me
are these herm seeds or s1's and if a plant hermed wouldn't it not make alot more than 1 or two seeds am running a ARC now from 1 seed from the entire plant - was female - is it a herm or a s1 - good impute sir.....


And as my first grow was gdp bag seed as stated above all 5 were female - good luck ?

2nd grow was fem beans only - slh 1 seed - male or was it female that hermed but never showed any female flower ?

 

[MtGrownCanna]

Are we talking Hermies here...or "S-1's"?

Maybe I'm the confused one. Sure wouldn't be the first time :rolleyes:

I thought S-1's were chemically produced via STS or colloidal silver. Spray a female clone....she becomes a male and offers pollen...another female clone of the same strain is pollenated....and S-1 (selfed) seeds are produced. No male chromosome is present...so no males will be produced.

A plant switching sex on it's own isn't an S-1...it's a Hermie. Bag seed is hermie seed. Offspring can go either way or hermie but they are not S-1 seeds.

That's the story I heard/have gone with.....and I have been making seeds via STS that >I< consider S-1's. Any seeds randomly made via hermie are hermie seed..not S-1 here.

IMO...a hermie is when a good % of the plant has male flowers. A hermie plant is not a plant that throws a few bananas in the later weeks of budding or drops one seed per plant. S1s can come from selfing with colloidal Silver or other chems, or from a random self induced seed.....say one seed per 1/4 pound of sensi.

 

[BrianDirt]

Botany[edit]


Hylocereus undatus, a hermaphrodite plant with both carpels and stamens
Main article: Sexual reproduction in plants
Hermaphrodite is used in botany to describe a flower that has both staminate (male, pollen-producing) and carpellate (female, ovule-producing) parts. This condition is seen in many common garden plants. A closer analogy to hermaphroditism in botany is the presence of separate male and female flowers on the same individual—such plants are called monoecious. Monoecy is especially common in conifers, but occurs in only about 7% of angiosperm species.[18]

 

[BrianDirt]

If you take a bannaba and place it in a plastic bag and some seeds in a paper bag and place together the gases from the rotting bannana will make your seeds be more female than male. Think of the plants as being only gene holders and not male or female. When the plant is selfed you are not getting the MALES side but the genes from the female will still split in two and just look back at the definition I gave on page one for this. Selfing is a way for the plant to continue unmodified as seen again in that posting. My 2cents anyway.

 

[BrianDirt]

Think about a plant that selfed every time no matter conditions, in a thousand years that plant would be near the same, since it only had its own genes to use. Even if there were only males and this was the only female, every year it would self drop seeds and a few of those would be the exsact same plant. Do you feel it or am I lost?

 

[soserthc1]

Botany[edit]

)

Hylocereus undatus, a hermaphrodite plant with both carpels and stamens
Main article: Sexual reproduction in plants
Hermaphrodite is used in botany to describe a flower that has both staminate (male, pollen-producing) and carpellate (female, ovule-producing) parts. This condition is seen in many common garden plants. A closer analogy to hermaphroditism in botany is the presence of separate male and female flowers on the same individual—such plants are called monoecious. Monoecy is especially common in conifers, but occurs in only about 7% of angiosperm species.[18]

A little confused to this post ( granted i have no horticultural education besides reading and hands on and forums) but thought female plants were called pistale and can't find anything on conifers besides this granted i gotta run real fast but here is what i got on conifers ,http://www2.estrellamountain.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/biobookdiversity_6.html

 

[soserthc1]

Think about a plant that selfed every time no matter conditions, in a thousand years that plant would be near the same, since it only had its own genes to use. Even if there were only males and this was the only female, every year it would self drop seeds and a few of those would be the exsact same plant. Do you feel it or am I lost?

Your 2 cents is welcome I started this thread to learn not to debate thou your getting scientific on me so i'm gonna need to put my thinking cap on and study the info you just thru ... will get back - much appreciate all ,

 

[BrianDirt]

Hairs are the pistols and the calax are were the seeds are made in femals. I'm no pencile protector white coat werer lol, just been studing breeding the last few months ]]

 

[sky high]

I'm hearing ya soser....and I feel it BD.

All I (can do is go from experience) "know" is that seeds from >forced< plants/controlled conditions (in my garden, at least) seem far more "stable" than seeds from plants that trigger on their own...for >whatever< reason(s). Brian's example is a good one....and I concur in a mono-crop/isolated situation such as he described that the plants would be the same...but some folks have stated that the "bag seed" they found is an S-1. Commercial bag seed? Does this play out the same way in your minds, guys? How do you prove lineage in such a situation? Where is the line between "hermie" and "S-1"....or is there one?

If not..and there is no line.....why aren't more folks selling randomly generated "S-1" seeds? (Ok...so some are...but that's another thread...;) in itself) From what I see, >most< folks who sell "S-1" seed target specific plants with a specific purpose to generate a specific product. (I call an "S-1") Are folks saying random seeds are the same thing? (S-1"?)

I hope I expressed that correctly. Kinda hard after hitting that wax grit gave me...LOL..... :woot:

 

[manicgrower]

I'm hearing ya soser....and I feel it BD.

All I (can do is go from experience) "know" is that seeds from >forced< plants/controlled conditions (in my garden, at least) seem far more "stable" than seeds from plants that trigger on their own...for >whatever< reason(s). Brian's example is a good one....and I concur in a mono-crop/isolated situation such as he described that the plants would be the same...but some folks have stated that the "bag seed" they found is an S-1. Commercial bag seed? Does this play out the same way in your minds, guys? How do you prove lineage in such a situation? Where is the line between "hermie" and "S-1"....or is there one?

If not..and there is no line.....why aren't more folks selling randomly generated "S-1" seeds? (Ok...so some are...but that's another thread...;) in itself) From what I see, >most< folks who sell "S-1" seed target specific plants with a specific purpose to generate a specific product. (I call an "S-1") Are folks saying random seeds are the same thing? (S-1"?)

I hope I expressed that correctly. Kinda hard after hitting that wax grit gave me...LOL..... :woot:

I understand what your saying Sky 100%. You are pretty much correct.

Female plants that show male flowers without grower intervention (like applying STS, CS or Gibberellic Acid) are far more likely to show unstable/hermaphrodite tendencies than those that are forced to reverse their sex. Bag seed tends to come from these unintended male flowers(or in rare cases loose "true" male pollen).

Now an S1 is technically any seed that comes from the result of a female pollinating itself(or a cut from the same female), whether through Chemical/Grower intervention or through the plants own natural sex reversal.

Hermie is commonly referred to, on the Cannabis Forums as a female that produces male pollen unintentionally. Even though, technically it is still an S1 if it pollinates itself.

 

[PaperStreet]

Has anyone taken a true S1 female or true female in general and tested it to see if in fact the male chromosone is not entirely present or that the breeder has entirely breed the male chromosone out of the strain? Or is that just speculation on what we want to happen or is expecting to happen in thoery?

 

[PaperStreet]

Can or has the female or male chromosone actually been successfully breed out of a canabis plant succesfully or is that speculation on what we believe we can do in thoery the thoery is a good one and makes complete sence i just wonder if theres any scientific facts proveing this thoery to be true.
Ive never seen or grow an actual s1 bean either what happened in mine actually kinda proves the fact entirely opposite as i have seen no hermi to date out of 300 regular male and female plants that i have grown from my reversed plant.
It is what it is

 

[BrianDirt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Burbank

 

[nightmarecreature]

In NJ back in the 90s, it was harder to get elite clones. All my grows were from random s1 bag seed I purchased. Most of what I purchased was killer hydro from NYC...mostly done from clones.. Never did I have a male from an s1. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I grew hundreds of plants and they all turned out female.......not to mention, most of the plants would drop one or two more seeds after growing them out.

Nightmare- If you only use 24 hours of light, how do you know you get more females using 24 hours light, compared to 18 hours? I grow all my seeds under 24 hours and for me, it depends on what cross I'm growing. I've read a few times the more stable a genome is, the less of a need there is to produce male offspring. IME, I have found that the f1 generation is around 70/30 fem, while my f2s and f3s from the same line can be closer to 40/60 fem. I've seen this pattern over the last several years.

In NJ back in the 90s, it was harder to get elite clones. All my grows were from random s1 bag seed I purchased. Most of what I purchased was killer hydro from NYC...mostly done from clones.. Never did I have a male from an s1. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I grew hundreds of plants and they all turned out female.......not to mention, most of the plants would drop one or two more seeds after growing them out.

Nightmare- If you only use 24 hours of light, how do you know you get more females using 24 hours light, compared to 18 hours? I grow all my seeds under 24 hours and for me, it depends on what cross I'm growing. I've read a few times the more stable a genome is, the less of a need there is to produce male offspring. IME, I have found that the f1 generation is around 70/30 fem, while my f2s and f3s from the same line can be closer to 40/60 fem. I've seen this pattern over the last several years.

I have ran different light cycles and I almost always get more females. Usually 80% of the time. I don't get anymore females from 24 hrs of light or 18. I get faster growth from 24hrs. That is one of the reasons why I think sex is predetermined. It's like scratching a lottery ticket in my eyes. I do think there are slightly more females than males just like in nature.

 

[soserthc1]

I have ran different light cycles and I almost always get more females. Usually 80% of the time. I don't get anymore females from 24 hrs of light or 18. I get faster growth from 24hrs. That is one of the reasons why I think sex is predetermined. It's like scratching a lottery ticket in my eyes. I do think there are slightly more females than males just like in nature.

agreed as I have also done both 24 hrs and 18 and always have more females - even now i'm looking for males and currently of plants showing sex 10 are female and 4 are male .....

here is a s1 snow leopard 4 female phenol in the room all ran to 60-75 days 1 thru 4 and found 1 seed and here it is in male form ? also throwing 9 blades after 5's shipped 7's .....

 

[MtGrownCanna]

Seriously.....and how much work could one person really do in a lifetime on one plant.....vs. nature and its unknown lifetimes?

Nice fatty leaves ya got there...

 

[SonOfDaMourning]

When you end up with stray seed its sometimes the nanners never make it out the pods and this is most likely to occur at the presex sites. I've come across seed plants throw sacks st these areas exclusively and only to a certain node height. Pick them off and then she's clean and so will be her clones. The hermi gene is always there, its a function that has different tolerances in genetic design like we are with allergies.