Science of LED Lighting

[spin doc]

Have never tried LED Lighting BUT have been giving it some thought and, consequently doing a lot of research. During my research I came across a site I thought might be of interest to the 'educated LED grower' .... for me, it is kind of Light Science 101 and a lot for me to absorb. So any help I can get will be appreciated.

Hope it is ok to post links to informational sites (I did not see any sort of advertisement or even a manufactuer's name) IF not, I apologize and will immediately delete my post. Not even sure I know how to post a link to another site but will give it a shot.

Just looking for some feedback from anyone that has knowledge of LEDs to see if this site seems legit.

 

[tattoojim]

ive never used a led but i have read alot here on the farm about them and alot of guys will say bang for your buck. hid is the way to go. led = to a 1000watt hps is fucking outragous. but im a poor boy lol

 

[baker]

I'm new to all of this as well but at the top of the blog that spin doc linked to there is a link that says 'Ask me anything'. @tattoojim - is it ok if I copy your comment "led = to a 1000watt..."?

I'm curious to hear what they say.

 

[spin doc]

Contacted the site and have to admit they were very quick to respond. They seem to very knowledgeable and genuinely interested in my questions. But I don't even know enough about lights to ask the right questions. From what they told me, I would describe them as sort of a 'cyber think tank'. They have a passion for LED lighting and are frustrated with the bad reputation LEDs have (they believe it is because people do not really understand the science), marketing misrepresentations by guys out to make a quick buck and the over priced under delivering units on the market ... there are some legit units (but they are very expensive) and a whole bunch of junk out there. While they said they have tested several units currently on the market, they said they are not interested in endorsing or trash talking currently available units. Their quest is to invent their own PERFECT mousetrap - if you will.

They are trying to get potential grass (pun intended) root users to provide some input & feedback during their developmental phase because they said their goal is to educate and give growers what they want / need in lights. They indicated they are working with several groups: Orchid Growers (who knew??? ... I think a Sativa 100 days into flower is a thing of beauty), coral growers (really?), agriculture, etc. and would like to get input from the Medical Marijuana community as they recognize us as representing a significant percentage of artificial light users.

As I said (and have been saying since 2009) I know virtually nothing about indoor growing & artificial lights but from everything I read on sites like this, I need to catch up with the times, get motivated and actually try indoor growing instead of just talking about it. This, unfortunately, makes me a very poor candidate for providing them the input they are looking for. So if there is anyone out there that would be interested in helping develop a lighting system customized to our needs this looks like it may be a good opportunity.

I dunno, right now my head is spinning ... paralysis through over analysis .... everyone seems to be very loyal to the type (T5, HID, LED etc) and brand of lighting they use and it is difficult for me to tell what is marketing hype and what is fact when it comes to deciding how to approach lighting for an indoor grow - so for now "Green acres is the place to be. Farm living is the life me. Land spreadin' out so far and wide. Keep indoor growing, just give me that countryside."

 

[willy led wonka]

that last part is some funny shit. You know you are dating yourself. hahaha. I remember watching that when we kids..lol. The brands of leds that work for people in NO particular order seem to be......stealth,magnum357,magnum357+, blackstar, advanced extremes, advanced diamond series, and there are a few that have luck with the grow led hydro. Those are the tested lights that most of us have used.....of those it seems glh has the most issues with the newer technology--trying to line the oversaturation of light and plant bleaching/burning issues. The older versions seem to do just fine. To get GREAT results you need at least a light thats pulling 300+ watts from the wall. Im not saying that others wont produce with less energy. It seems like to meet/exceed 600-1000hps thats what it takes. Wonka

 

[spin doc]

tatoojim and/or Baker: what do you mean by "led = to a 1000watt hps is fucking outragous"?

willy led wonka: what do you mean by "trying to line the oversaturation of light and plant bleaching/burning issues"? Are you saying LEDs generate too much light? What do you mean by bleaching/burning issues"

SSHZ: Don't know if you have read my post, but I did see your post "California LightWorks "Solarstorm" LED Light" and the email you pasted from George Mekhtarian, the owner of the company. His response made him look like a good ole boy you could trust but then, I have spent my entire life in a small rural community where everyone is a good ole boy you could trust, what are your thoughts on the man and his product?


I take 'old skool' outdoor farming to a whole new level .... I am a third generation 'farmer'. Everyone thought my grandpa was out of his mind when he switched from moonshing to herb farming (I still do a bit of shining as a hobby & for personal medicinal purposes). But I am beginning to think I need to follow grandpa's lead and modify my operations to catch up with the changing times.

The basics of my approach is:
The good Lord provides the lighting, the sun rises in the morn & sets in the eve and the 3rd week of July (@ my latitude) triggers the switch from veg. to flower (no need to switch any light timer) and the feed lot down by the grain elevator serves as my major source of soil additives. This year has convinced me that I am getting too old for these once a year mega harvests (I still hand trim and 3 weeks of sun up to sundown trimming is breaking my back & reeking havoc on my wrists). I am a one man operation since Pop's got retired. Probably most importantly ... for security, I do not have mail delivered to my place - I have to drive 30 mins to town to my PO Box so buying a lighting set up by trial & error would be a major pain in the ass not to mention raise the postman's curiosity (and in my small community that would mean everyone knows)

Don't mean to sound like Otis 'the town drunk' who's mind is ate up and keeps repeating the same conversation but I only have a few months before I need to begin preparing for next years season UNLESS I come up with a new / more modern plan of attack. As I said, I would much rather spread the season out over 12 months by going indoors that restricting my ops to June - Oct and facing NOTHER MEGA HARVEST.

I am by no means a computer xpert, but from what I have seen this appears to be the place for the smartest farmers with the most knowledge and that is why I am pestering you. Learn from the best & f the rest.

 

[tattoojim]

doc... i was tryn to say is that the money i have in hids is way less than the leds. like i said i have never done a side by side compare. check out a digital galaxy ballast(1000 watter).

 

[spin doc]

Latest post from the 'cyber think tank' fellas ....



They post some interesting info. Just seems like not often enough. Maybe, like other research / academic brainiacs they spend too much time at the library or on the computer BUT, maybe this commitment to a weekly post will fix that.

I thought it was an interesting read ... this one is on the belief that all LEDS currently available are 'Chineese Crap'.

Maybe I will hit them with a question regarding misleading advertising when it comes to actual light output. Units currently on the market are advertised as being 1200 watts ( 400 - 3 watt diodes) when in reality they aren't but are actually like 650 watts of true OUTPUT. I made up those
numbers but have read many posts that say actual output is not equal to what is advertised. Can anyone help me with the facts before I post my question. I know I am a dumb @55 when it comes to LED Science BUT the rest of the cyber world doesn't need to know

 

[spin doc]

I hit them with my question and think they provided a very detailed answer ... still trying to decypher it all (kind of like Jethro - not real good a cyphering). BUT on the surface, it makes sense. What do you guys that are more experienced & smarter than me think of the response? Is this an indication that LED makers are moving in the right direction?

 

[BrandonBlack]

None of the links are working for me. I am an engineer and botanist for an up and coming LED company. We have several products out there and do lots of custom projects, some that I can not even talk about. One of my favorites is our grow light. It feels good to be a part of something that you know is the best. We have done severall side by side tests and are still doing tests. I personally don't ever think we will stop doing tests. I take pride in the fact that we have the best light out there and plan to make it so we will always have the best light out there. We just released our light to the public a month or two ago. I hope we can get this light out there so people can see what I am talking about and so we can bring the prices lower. We design our own LEDs, controllers, light engines, shell and reflector.

I would be more than happy to answer any of your questions, because I am another person that is sick of companies boasting about things that dont matter and customers buying product that they know nothing about. Most products out there on the market are crap and I am here to prove that. I will not talk badly about any individual light or company. I am only here to answer questions to inform people about the technologies that relate to LEDs and what plants need and dont need. Then you and the rest of the people out there interested in LEDs can make their own educated decisions.

 

[Sarlacc]

New poster here so sorry if this has been covered elsewhere.

Is there an LED panel someone could recommend that would work well in a 30 x 30 closet from veg - flower. Heat is a major issue for me so I'm really interested in a quality LED panel. I don't want to get crazy on price but if it's worth it I'll buy it. Thank you for suggestions

 

[squiggly]

New poster here so sorry if this has been covered elsewhere.

Is there an LED panel someone could recommend that would work well in a 30 x 30 closet from veg - flower. Heat is a major issue for me so I'm really interested in a quality LED panel. I don't want to get crazy on price but if it's worth it I'll buy it. Thank you for suggestions

I can, with confidence, endorse the Pro-Grow led series from the folks at hydroponics hut. I am not an advertiser for them nor I ever received any services or products from them free of charge. I am a PG owner/operator and have had nothing but the best of results.

My sensibilities prevent me from offering visual evidence, but I offer my word in place.

I run two of the 180s in a 4.5x4.5 and have respectable results (one of the walls is at an angle, however so its more like a 3x4). Yields will be lower, but if heat is the problem--these can solve it pretty well. Do keep in mind that the heat output is non-zero, so you still need proper ventilation.

If I had the dough I'd splurge on the X5s after the experience I've had with the cheaper units. Check out the site, they have a variety of options.

 

[Sarlacc]

Thank you for that link Squiggly. These Pro-Gro X5 looks to pack some amazing features into a compact design. That price is not out of line either. I likey!

My hydro shop has some literature from this company and when I went to their site I found this video that purports to have patents on their phosphors that outperform sunlight. They discuss this as a comparison to LED at around 2:20 seconds. Too big and too much money for me anyway but is that even possible to claim their light is better than sunlight? Switching an LED between veg and flower instead of relamping is gonna be way easier. Much obliged!