Sealed room problems: phantom deficiencies, leaf necrosis; offgassing/outgassing

Resinable · Feb 14, 2012

LittleAmsterdam said:
Mrs. Resin, I can read just fine and can see you're negative with every suggestion given. If you're such HOT shit, then why are you asking for our help!?!

I'm not interested in your bullshit, please move along. I am a very experienced grower facing some serious and baffling issues; if there was an easy or obvious solution I would not be posting here asking for help. To all the people with constructive comments, thank you.

cemchris · Feb 14, 2012

Resinable said:
I'm not interested in your bullshit, please move along. I am a very experienced grower facing some serious and baffling issues; if there was an easy or obvious solution I would not be posting here asking for help. To all the people with constructive comments, thank you.

No worries man. I know how this type of shit can rack your brain. Let us know what happens. If you are still in the dark I would opt for the medium/leaf test for a lab. That way you can rule out nutes/bugs/virus/fungus problems. I suggest this because You changed the environment and they didn't improve. That or take clones from those plants and put them in a different spot and see what they do.

For example I have been chasing a nute lockout which looks like a ph issue. Finally figured out its my roots growing out of the first 5 gal bucket and sitting in non aerated water in the 2nd bucket. My drain setup on the side of the bucket leaves about 3 in of remaining water. Gonna have to rework it because right now I cant do anything bout it except to put airstones in each bucket which I don't want to do.

Sometimes its the simplest things you overlook. Good luck.

Empire · Feb 14, 2012

hey hotshit, when you gonna move your poor plants off the cold ass concrete floor and start growing??!

you really dont think that your sheet of plastic is insulating a cold ass slab of concrete in winter do you?

come on man. like ive said before, your chasing problems that arent there. your problem is cold roots. i know it sounds too simple. but your spending all this money and wasting all this time and nothing is working. well, getting the plants off the cold concrete floor should have been the first thing you did. the plants would be back on track by now.

a slab is gonna be like 10-15 degrees colder then it is outside. even if you have it 100 degrees inside your room. this is winter time bro, i bet your roots are in the 50's.

been doing this a long ass time man. ive been in your shoes, and your chasing all these problems that rookie ass kids are telling you because they read about it online. offgassing?! hahahaha come on.

i think your problem is the 4 degree shift in the earths axis after the earthquake in japan.

Resinable · Feb 15, 2012

cemchris: Thanks for your support and suggestions. If you have any contact info for a lab please pm me. At this point I am going to install a intake/outake system and probably kill all my plants, clean out my room and start with fresh healthy cuttings and sterilized medium. Hopefully that will eliminate my two most likely culprits: offgassing and pests.

Empire: As I acknowledged before, your point about the concrete floor is a good one. I also gave some reasons why I do not think that is the problem but you might be right and I will check into it. If I take a pic with a temp gun pointed at the floor what temp do you think it would need to be not to be a problem? I just don't see cold floors causing these symptoms but I could be wrong. Could you explain how a cold root zone leads to ph lockout? If you are right I definitely will owe you thanks.

As for offgassing, I am not sure why you are so dismissive, it is a real problem that has fucked up many grows.

Also I don't appreciate your attitude and think it is uncalled for, even though you do make a valid point.

BTW check out these cold roots:

Resinable · Feb 16, 2012

I checked my floor temps with a heat gun, here is what I found: with ambient air temp at 78, concrete was 70, pond liner 86, and top layer of coco in the container was 68. It does not seem like cold floors are the issue.

However, it does seem like offgassing or some other problem with the atmosphere of the room is the issue because after only four days of fresh air the plants seem much better. These observations are preliminary but it seems like fresh air is the cure; I will report back when I know for sure. Thanks everybody for your input thus far.

Capulator · Feb 16, 2012

good shit man. like I said, run fresh air for a cycle and then try co2 sealed again. if there was any offgassing from the plywood or liner or reflectex it will hopefully have all dissipated in 2 months or so. You coudl still use yoru co2 if you are on a burner if you arent venting super fast.

good luck!

Papa · Feb 16, 2012

LittleAmsterdam said:
Mrs. Resin, I can read just fine and can see you're negative with every suggestion given. If you're such HOT shit, then why are you asking for our help!?!

Rudeness such as this is not tolerated at the farm. LittleAmsterdam will be sitting on the bench for a week.

LittleAmsterdam, please take the time to read the Public Service Announcement at the top of your screen.

re: offgassing of plywood. i thought of this last week, but it seems that taped refectix would seal the room from the plywood. btw, i once read a study regarding this that showed that plywood offgasses for about 3 months.

re: rootzone temps. i've taken my hydro down to 53º (1º change a day) to test the "cold root" theory. people have told me in the past that anything under 60º would kill my plants. my plants showed no difference.

re: CO2. i once ran a small sealed room that was so well sealed that just the pilot light on my generator would take the room to 7,000ppm. i ran it that way for weeks and the plants loved it. and yes, i'd keep the door open whenever i went in the room.

hiboy · Feb 16, 2012

This offgassing is new to me,
thought it was nonsense but im def. wrong. Very interesting thread.
Just hoping i'll never have to deal with it. I always paint everything in my rooms, drywall, wooden tables, u name it it gets coated to seal from bugs and mold.
Good luck on figuring it out,
hb

Resinable · Feb 17, 2012

Cap: Thanks for the kind words bro; we will def. be running fresh air this cycle but I really want to return to sealed with CO2 when possible. Plan on exchanging the air twice per minute so no CO2 this run. Been a long time since I've run a fresh air room, it will be interesting to see what it can do.

Papa: Thanks for lookin out, kinda was feeling guilty like I was a little snappy with Little Amsterdam cause of all the stress I'm going through right now but hopefully the posts speak for themselves as to what went on.

On the plywood, one would think it would have had time to offgas sitting in the lumber yard but who knows.

Hiboy: I hear you on the offgasing, when I first read about it I thought people where smoking a bit too much and chasing shadows but it is def. a legit concern.

It kinda drives me more than a little batty that I can't pinpoint the problem with 100% certainty but maybe I will figure it out at some point. I guess healthy plants are all that really matter.

Papa · Feb 17, 2012

hiboy said:
I always paint everything in my rooms, drywall, wooden tables, u name it it gets coated to seal from bugs and mold.
Good luck on figuring it out,
hb

thank you for mentioning this hiboy. using drywall (over studs or plywood underlay) and then mud, primer, and good latex is sound practice. it's cheap, easy, makes it all airtight, and helps prevent mold and keeps bugs out. 'easy to clean and helps conserve CO2 also. i see a lot of guys skip the drywall because they've never done it before, but i'm one who thinks it's a skill you should learn if you're going to be building grow rooms.

Carson · Mar 26, 2012

Any updates? I am experiencing similar issues with a new build. I used a foil faced OSB with foil tape and calk to seal to save steps. after severe paling and yellowing, I went to fresh air, and treated for bugs and fungus(had gnats for sure) co2 gen was also acting up. I am showing improvement, but still have too many variables to know for sure.

Resinable · Mar 28, 2012

Carson: I was able to get the room functioning and the plants are now healthy. I'm still not sure exactly what caused the problem but it did seem to be some sort of off gassing. After removing some vinyl hoses and introducing fresh air (stopped using Co2 burner too) everything made a dramatic turn around. I saw a huge change within a week of introducing fresh air. So for now I am not running the room sealed but everything is looking good.

silverhaze · Apr 20, 2012

Really interesting thread and glad for Resinable that your plants have turned around. I have had almost identical issues in my sealed room that ended up being more about Lumen shock moving from t5's to 1000's. Purpleberry mentioned Lumen shock early in this thread. I've struggled with this as well because for me, when moved into the sealed room, all the deficiencies start showing up - or so I thought. Actually they were not simple deficiencies at all, just symptoms of another problem - stress leading to lockout. I appreciate all the advice in this thread as I want to look at some of the tubing/hose suggestions as well. The offgassing is a new idea to me too but certainly worth taking a look at. I doubt it would come from plywood on its own. Thanks for starting the thread.. I'm about to start vegging again but this time, I will veg in the sealed room and avoid the switch issues entirely. Hopefully that help me confirm what my problem has been.

WalterWhiteFire · Apr 20, 2012

Glanced thru here didnt notice you mention what your relative humidity is. You could be dealing with a vapor pressure deficit...

pussOGbrah · Sep 26, 2012

hey resinable, have you come any closer to solving this problem? Are you still running unsealed?

Im in the same situation as you to a tee, same burner and controller, coco. Gone through all the headaches first thinking lumen shock, then low humidity, pondliner offgassing. Like you when i unseal my room my plants bounce back dramatically.

I really need to figure out why my plants go from great to shit in seemingly hours. I run a flip flop so i cant unseal both rooms or one will get too hot.

any insight is really appreciated.

squiggly · Oct 6, 2012

A few questions:

1. Where is your CO2 detector located?

2. How are you moving air (and it what direction).

3. What is the pressure inside of your room when it is sealed? (Should be reported as a range from lowest value to highest--depending on which equipment is currently running).

I think what you may have been looking at was CO2 toxicity. If you weren't moving air enough (especially upwards) you will have been choking the roots of your plants with CO2. If your detector was higher up than the floor--you may not have been aware of how high concentrations were at floor level.

It's also possible that the pressure in your room was too low. Especially because you are cooling the room--if its not very well insulated this can cause a pressure differential relative to the surroundings of the room (which can drop the pressure if the room is sealed very well).

If you add these both together you can get some serious issues with adding CO2. If you want to go back to a sealed setup I'd recommend finding a way to significantly increase the air mixing in the room.

Mississip Hip · Oct 8, 2012

this thread is 6 months old

pussOGbrah · Oct 8, 2012

Mississip Hip said:
this thread is 6 months old

^^the problem was never solved and i bumped the thread so...

Squiggly, I dont know if your reply was directed to me but its good food for thought. I actually have 2 sentinel co2 controllers. i turned the other one on and checked it against what my current meter was reading. turns out my current meter was reading low (600ppm) compared to the other one (900ppm). Both were treated well and never dropped or anything. Co2 levels were the same no matter where i placed the meter, high or low.

your comment got me thinking though, and im going to add some cheap desk fans under the canopy pointed up, on the low setting. Should keep everything circulating better.

Resinable, if you happen to see this, your insight is still greatly appreciated. At this point im planning on keeping my room sealed, but doing 10 minutes of exhausting every 3 hours. I just rreally want to get to the bottom of this...

Mississip Hip · Oct 9, 2012

I started a thread a long time ago about this under a different handle...you may find sometihng in here...I outlined what fixed it for me. Hope you get it handled bro

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...ion-in-a-sealed-room.30467/page-2#post-931060

fwiw...I still think the plants need some fresh oxygen in some rooms. I am sure with enough discussion amongst people with the same problem, a common denominator could be found.

pussOGbrah · Oct 9, 2012

hey mississipi hip good lookin out. That thread is where i got the idea to do purges. I also totally agree i think the problem is oxygen. With a smaller room totally airtight--and a burner running--the oxygen just gets used up faster than the plants can generate it. Then when you water you suck high co2 and low O2 air into your medium.

btw, talked to homie at the dro store and he said air conditioners can actually offgass/ cause offgassing issues in sealed rooms. They even stopped selling a popular brand of mini splits because the problem was so prevalent. fwiw...

Sealed room problems: phantom deficiencies, leaf necrosis; offgassing/outgassing

Sealed room problems: phantom deficiencies, leaf necrosis; offgassing/outgassing

Resinable

cemchris

Empire

Resinable

Resinable

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Papa

hiboy

Resinable

Papa

Carson

Resinable

silverhaze

WalterWhiteFire

pussOGbrah

squiggly

Mississip Hip

pussOGbrah

Mississip Hip

pussOGbrah

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