Sealed room problems: phantom deficiencies, leaf necrosis; offgassing/outgassing

[Daggy]

Well sort of. It is a newly framed room in the corner of an old shop that I've grown in before. I think at least part of it might b offgassing so I put in a big charcoal scrubber. I've read about so many similar issues w new Gavita users I'm partially convinced it's the DEs and my impatient nature i.e. dialing them up too quickly causing photosystem damage. Plus they really do seem to be using more food my runoff was coming out equal to and lower than input especially on any plants recieving cross lighting. Thanks for your interest :D

Bro I know your pain. When i out the gavitas to the lowest setting the plants start bouncing back. The purple stem goes away but they never turn green green green like they used to back in the day under my regular 1k hps. I tried by bumping them up 5% every day and I got a point where they started going down hill. I wish I could post pictures but the site always restricts me or something.

 

[Samadhi]

Hey Res thanks for posting. I dont think the oxygen depletion is from c02 offsetting it, i think its from the propane burner running in a tightly sealed room. When a flame burns it consumes oxygen. If your plants are too small to offset the depletion the percent of oxygen in your room could change from 20.4 % (atmospheric) to as low as 17% before you dont have enough oxygen for your burner to light. A propane burner running in a room with 18 or 19% oxygen is not going to combust 100% leading to ethylene, sulfur dioxide, and carbon monoxide buildup.

Even ethylene levels as low as .01 ppm can have major effects on a tomato plant (one of the most sensitive plants to ethylene) within 24 hours.

Here are some articles i found very interesting about ethylene buildup in pro greenhouses.>>>>

http://www.greenhousegrower.com/article/19876/ethylene-in-the-greenhouse
And,,
http://www.hort.cornell.edu/mattson/leatherwood/

I've also run sealed rooms for a while with no problems, same burner/ controller setup and everything. I only ran into problems on the last room i built.

Just going to throw this out there because it seems I might be having the same issue Resinable had. I just moved into a new sealed room (first time growing in a sealed room for me) and they've been going downhill and exhibiting the same leaf issues as Resinable's. Why I decided to reply to this post in particular is one difference in my room is I'm running tanks instead of a burner and having the same issue. Obviously I'm not positive it's the exact same issue, but it sure seems to be at this point.

 

[Samadhi]

Going from vented to sealed the plant experiences different concentrations of gasses it's almost like a different planet as far as a plants concerned. I feel like part of it is also your soil microbes adjusting too. I put in a tiny exhaust in my room for night time it seemed to help. My night co2 was going up to 2500ppm which I'm sure didn't help. An exhaust can help w offgassing too. I've experienced this w both burner and bottled co2. We had an "expert" from AN (fukin salesman) come out to help us diagnose he said they always have issues in new sealed rooms but the issues go away after a couple runs so definitely could be offgassing. Charcoal filters can help w that too

Cool thanks for the info man. I've moved a few plants back into my veg room (which is air cooled) to see if they improve. If they do I can narrow it down to a environment issue rather than a nutrient one. If it's a fresh air issue I can hook up some intake/outtake fans and fix that problem right up. I'll let yall know if I come up with any solutions or am able to nail down the problem more.

 

[Homesteader]

Soil microbes respirate CO2 when breaking down soil and in heavier amounts in 70 degree dark temps.
"The amount of soil respiration is an indicator of nutrients contained in organic matter being converted to forms available to crops (e.g., phosphate as PO4, nitrate-nitrogen as NO3, and sulfate as SO4)."

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/free-co2-via-soil-respiration.83634/

 

[Judaz]

Great information on this thread regarding freak problems with sealed rooms. I've setup many sealed rooms the same way and I've had similar issues on some, especially the ones that I've used a CO2 propane burner. I still don't understand why this happens on some rooms but what I do know is that if I create a hybrid room that is sealed With CO2 enrichment and at the same time ventilated with a continous exhaust fan running at a slower rate that uses a dimmer so I don't suck out all the CO2 and can still maintain the proper levels then all these freak issues go away. After doing this I've never seen these problems crop up again. Even though my CO2 expense goes up a bit my yields have been the best ever. The buds just simply get bigger. Hitting over 3+ pounds a light with gavita fixtures. When I didn't vent my sealed room I would get 2.3-2.5 a light. I learned this from a very experienced grower in the San Fernando valley. He is the guy who created the sfv og strain. This is how he does his sealed rooms and hits 3.5 pounds a light on a consistent basis. Every grower out here in the SFV that hits over 3 a light runs their sealed rooms like this. The first picture is my top buds from my og kush strain using the hybrid system, the second picture is a top bud of the same og kush strain under a traditional sealed grow room with no air exchange. I still don't know the science of why this occurs but what I do know is my results from my past experiences growing og kush and the secretes of the best growers of the SFV which first put og kush strain on the map and made it famous to the rest of the world

 

[nicolajanjak]

Hey man
Please tell us more about your method
So at night you just stop co2 to. Keep 350ppm and fresh oxygen ?

 

[Jimster]

Did you check your CO2 generator and make sure it isn't giving off CO (Carbom MONOxide)? Plants are very sensitive to it and being an airtight room, it could be the atmosphere. Any time something is burned, carbon monoxide is a possibility and isn't easily checked for. You can get cheap CO detectors that you simply hang up and they change colors. Do you get headaches from being around your room?

 

[noob12345]

Im experiencing this problem at the moment! I built myself an RDWC and a tankless water heater hooked up to co2 controller, the first grow it seemed to do ok but not great, this grow im getting stunted leaves, calmag issues, really bad purple leaf stems and purple stripes up the main stems, it seems to effect the plants opposite first (first contact with the gasses from the burner?!) I have tried venting at night and a few times during the day but these problems persist until I cut the generator completely and switch the vent on! I have a CO alarm in there which never registers anything. What really confused issues is that I had a PH pen issue at the start and was running PH too low, when I realised this and corrected it I had hoped the problems would go away, but they just got worse! I found a few posts on the burner issue and after running for a week or so without the burner the plants were doing ok again, not perfect as im not getting the fan leaves that im used to, they all seem thin fingered if that makes any sense? My single pot is doing much better but what I did notice is that with the burner on, any roots above the water in the big system slowly die, only the submerged ones seem to survive. My environment is pretty dialled in! RH 60% temps a bit low at 22 but I blew a ballast other day and am waiting for the new one to turn up so I only have 1 light on for a few days, I have added an aquarium heater and all fresh airstones as I found a couple of them seemed to be blocked and the water was a little cold, ive got it up to 21°c now. This problem is driving me crazy, Im thinking about ripping the whole lot out and going back to simple single buckets next grow. In the pics you can see since turning off the generator im getting nice new root growth but it still seems like they are growing slower than they should be too me, In my single bucket dwc tent grows I had a job to control them they grew so quickly!

The single red bucket was a cutting I put in after the others and its doing great, big normal fan leaves but the big system …...I decided 24hrs ago to seal her up and switch generator on to make sure that's what's causing it and 24hrs later....cal-mag issues, purple stems getting a lot worse and this strange leaf curling. The older roots look stained but they are not slimy and dont smell of anything, although they do seem very ropey, not many feeder hairs. Anyone able to shine a little more light on this before I explode lol.

 

[HydroGroChamp]

hey hotshit, when you gonna move your poor plants off the cold ass concrete floor and start growing??!

you really dont think that your sheet of plastic is insulating a cold ass slab of concrete in winter do you?

come on man. like ive said before, your chasing problems that arent there. your problem is cold roots. i know it sounds too simple. but your spending all this money and wasting all this time and nothing is working. well, getting the plants off the cold concrete floor should have been the first thing you did. the plants would be back on track by now.

a slab is gonna be like 10-15 degrees colder then it is outside. even if you have it 100 degrees inside your room. this is winter time bro, i bet your roots are in the 50's.

been doing this a long ass time man. ive been in your shoes, and your chasing all these problems that rookie ass kids are telling you because they read about it online. offgassing?! hahahaha come on.

i think your problem is the 4 degree shift in the earths axis after the earthquake in japan.

Im fucking weak

Well said

 

[HydroGroChamp]

People always come here and post problems, but never their solutions...

@Aquaman