Shatter Issues, Plz Help Bro!!

Dbritish1 · Apr 6, 2016

I'm still a rookie fresh out the womb...only ran like 40 runs. Issue I'm having is I can consistently produce any thing!!... But shatter!! Really getting frustrated. Got a beautiful across inter vac/oven corresponding pump, and 150g closed column extractor. Just the column with isolation valves on top and bottom for saturation. I don't aggitate, I use PTFE have also used pyrex. Just to give it a whirl. I'll attach an image, only 5g of oil, blasted and let air purge for an hour at ambient (71) then slowly purged on griddle ( indirectly) and introduced to vac oven at 91 deg. I've started at 80 deg and gone up to 120 with several strains of dank ass nugget. But still no shatter. Feel like a ****ing loser, I got good equipment and still can't accomplish shatter. But people online using embarrassing setups are making great shatter. Yah im obviously pissed at myself. I take pride in what I do but no shatter. I got a friend throwing me 4 plates and I don't want to let him down with no shatter. Any help would be real badass. Appreciate it guys, for real thanks!!

GT21 · Apr 6, 2016

Dbritish1 said:
I'm still a rookie fresh out the womb...only ran like 40 runs. Issue I'm having is I can consistently produce any thing!!... But shatter!! Really getting frustrated. Got a beautiful across inter vac/oven corresponding pump, and 150g closed column extractor. Just the column with isolation valves on top and bottom for saturation. I don't aggitate, I use PTFE have also used pyrex. Just to give it a whirl. I'll attach an image, only 5g of oil, blasted and let air purge for an hour at ambient (71) then slowly purged on griddle ( indirectly) and introduced to vac oven at 91 deg. I've started at 80 deg and gone up to 120 with several strains of dank ass nugget. But still no shatter. Feel like a ****ing loser, I got good equipment and still can't accomplish shatter. But people online using embarrassing setups are making great shatter. Yah im obviously pissed at myself. I take pride in what I do but no shatter. I got a friend throwing me 4 plates and I don't want to let him down with no shatter. Any help would be real badass. Appreciate it guys, for real thanks!!View attachment 588135 View attachment 588137 View attachment 588135 View attachment 588137

You ever try like 150 degrees, no air purge straight to the vac?

Dbritish1 · Apr 6, 2016

Nah never went that high, from researching seems like that's real high. I'll give it a try though I appreciate the response bro. After blasting should I introduce oil right to oven at 150 and vacuum. Or intro oil at sayyy 100 after blasting, let it chill until hits 150 and thennn turn on pump?? Thnx

GT21 · Apr 6, 2016

Dbritish1 said:
Nah never went that high, from researching seems like that's real high. I'll give it a try though I appreciate the response bro. After blasting should I introduce oil right to oven at 150 and vacuum. Or intro oil at sayyy 100 after blasting, let it chill until hits 150 and thennn turn on pump?? Thnx

start pumpin right off the bat.

waxman · Apr 10, 2016

@Dbritish1, The process I use to get Shatter consistently.
I freeze both my tube and butane. (not sure if it helps make Shatter)
I blast into a ambient temperature Pyrex. (no heat)
Let sit for 30 min before adding the hot water bath. (my hot water never exceeds 100 degrees)
Let the Tane evaporate enough to bring indoors.
I then cover with plastic wrap and let set for 3-4 hrs.
I then put back on a 90 degree hot water bath and monitor my oil until it is 90 degrees.
I then set it in room temp. water for a few min to bring down my temp.
Then I scrape on to Parchment paper.
I put it in the Vac oven with no heat until the Muffin is not reacting.
Then I add heat of 95 degrees and watch it closely.
I slowly increase the heat, but never go over 115 degrees. (I usually get sap or honeycomb if I go higher.) I go low and slow.
After no more reaction in the vac, I take it out and flip the slab.
Back in the oven but, I put the slab in and let it get to 115 degrees before pulling my last vac.
Then I watch closely until finished.
This is just my method for constantly getting Shatter out of my product.
I hope it helps?
Here is a pic of some AK47

WesCyber · Apr 11, 2016

Waxman that's some good looking oil. I wish I could get that golden yellow color in mine. How much is there?

Graywolf · Apr 11, 2016

Dbritish1 said:
I'm still a rookie fresh out the womb...only ran like 40 runs. Issue I'm having is I can consistently produce any thing!!... But shatter!! Really getting frustrated. Got a beautiful across inter vac/oven corresponding pump, and 150g closed column extractor. Just the column with isolation valves on top and bottom for saturation. I don't aggitate, I use PTFE have also used pyrex. Just to give it a whirl. I'll attach an image, only 5g of oil, blasted and let air purge for an hour at ambient (71) then slowly purged on griddle ( indirectly) and introduced to vac oven at 91 deg. I've started at 80 deg and gone up to 120 with several strains of dank ass nugget. But still no shatter. Feel like a ****ing loser, I got good equipment and still can't accomplish shatter. But people online using embarrassing setups are making great shatter. Yah im obviously pissed at myself. I take pride in what I do but no shatter. I got a friend throwing me 4 plates and I don't want to let him down with no shatter. Any help would be real badass. Appreciate it guys, for real thanks!!View attachment 588135 View attachment 588137 View attachment 588135 View attachment 588137

From the cloudiness, it looks like a high wax content. That won't make it runny, but will make it soft and pliable, as well as prone to auto waxing.

Freezing the material and using subzero LPG will reduce the levels of the longer chain ~C-30 molecules like plant waxes, anthro cyanin plant pigments, chlorophyll, and sadly flavonoids.

The cannabinoids are a C-21 sized molecule, with a COOH carboxyl link attached, until they decarboxylate either naturally as a function of drying, or in response process heat. The COOH link raises the boiling point and makes the molecule stiffer at room temperature.

Starting with carboxylic acid, and eschewing dilluting them with plant waxes, pigments, etc, will result in shatter consistency.

Propane is less prone to pick up the heavier molecules, and has a lower boiling point, and when added to butane, allows you to pump it at lower temperatures. We like a 50/50 or 70/30 mix, depending on how low we chill it before injection.

Not only does not picking up as many dillutants in the form of C-30 molecules make it easier to "allow" the carboxylic acids to remain stiff, but not extracting the anthro cyanin plant pigments also makes the extract lighter.

Further more, because of its low boiling point, propane is easier to purge, so more monoterpenes are left behind in the concentrate, optimizing its aromatics and flavor.

Other things that keep an extract from being brittle at room temperature, aside from decarboxylation and dilution with C-30 molecules, is residual solvent, water, and monoterpenes.

Lastly, it is easier to get shatter consistency with cured material than fresh material, because the C-10 monoterpene levels are lower. Monoterpenes are the principle source of flavor and aroma, but they also act as a solvent to the C-21 diterpene based cannabinoids, so that the concentrate becomes more pull and snap as their levels rise.

Graywolf · Apr 11, 2016

waxman said:
@Dbritish1, The process I use to get Shatter consistently.
I freeze both my tube and butane. (not sure if it helps make Shatter)
I blast into a ambient temperature Pyrex. (no heat)
Let sit for 30 min before adding the hot water bath. (my hot water never exceeds 100 degrees)
Let the Tane evaporate enough to bring indoors.
I then cover with plastic wrap and let set for 3-4 hrs.
I then put back on a 90 degree hot water bath and monitor my oil until it is 90 degrees.
I then set it in room temp. water for a few min to bring down my temp.
Then I scrape on to Parchment paper.
I put it in the Vac oven with no heat until the Muffin is not reacting.
Then I add heat of 95 degrees and watch it closely.
I slowly increase the heat, but never go over 115 degrees. (I usually get sap or honeycomb if I go higher.) I go low and slow.
After no more reaction in the vac, I take it out and flip the slab.
Back in the oven but, I put the slab in and let it get to 115 degrees before pulling my last vac.
Then I watch closely until finished.
This is just my method for constantly getting Shatter out of my product.
I hope it helps?
Here is a pic of some AK47 View attachment 589475

Purdy!

waxman · Apr 11, 2016

@Graywolf, Thank you kindly! I have actually followed you for a few years now on the web. I have learned so much in that time and I thank you for what you do! Sharing knowledge is caring about people and the Industry!
Cheers!

waxman · Apr 11, 2016

Graywolf said:
From the cloudiness, it looks like a high wax content. That won't make it runny, but will make it soft and pliable, as well as prone to auto waxing.

Freezing the material and using subzero LPG will reduce the levels of the longer chain ~C-30 molecules like plant waxes, anthro cyanin plant pigments, chlorophyll, and sadly flavonoids.

The cannabinoids are a C-21 sized molecule, with a COOH carboxyl link attached, until they decarboxylate either naturally as a function of drying, or in response process heat. The COOH link raises the boiling point and makes the molecule stiffer at room temperature.

Starting with carboxylic acid, and eschewing dilluting them with plant waxes, pigments, etc, will result in shatter consistency.

Propane is less prone to pick up the heavier molecules, and has a lower boiling point, and when added to butane, allows you to pump it at lower temperatures. We like a 50/50 or 70/30 mix, depending on how low we chill it before injection.

Not only does not picking up as many dillutants in the form of C-30 molecules make it easier to "allow" the carboxylic acids to remain stiff, but not extracting the anthro cyanin plant pigments also makes the extract lighter.

Further more, because of its low boiling point, propane is easier to purge, so more monoterpenes are left behind in the concentrate, optimizing its aromatics and flavor.

Other things that keep an extract from being brittle at room temperature, aside from decarboxylation and dilution with C-30 molecules, is residual solvent, water, and monoterpenes.

Lastly, it is easier to get shatter consistency with cured material than fresh material, because the C-10 monoterpene levels are lower. Monoterpenes are the principle source of flavor and aroma, but they also act as a solvent to the C-21 diterpene based cannabinoids, so that the concentrate becomes more pull and snap as their levels rise.

Directly from the master!

waxman · Apr 11, 2016

WesCyber said:
Waxman that's some good looking oil. I wish I could get that golden yellow color in mine. How much is there?

This was my best return using 28 grams of some bomb AK47 I picked up from a buddy. I got 7.23 grams of Shatter. I usually average between 4-5.5 g's. If you are using fresh buds (dried & cured of course) and some good butane, you should be able to get the color. Old material that was not stored properly will usually turn out darker I have found. I use Newport when doing small runs. It has more Propane in it than most other brands from what I have learned. Otherwise, I use N-Tane from Best Value Vacs.
Check out Graywolfs post above.

Graywolf · Apr 12, 2016

waxman said:
@Graywolf, Thank you kindly! I have actually followed you for a few years now on the web. I have learned so much in that time and I thank you for what you do! Sharing knowledge is caring about people and the Industry!
Cheers!

Thanks for the good thoughts brother WM! And to our cannabis societies good fortune and credit, only one of many!

Yeah, as a group we've all learned a lot in the last few years and moved the state of the art to new levels through synergism! Look where we were at only five years ago!

What they say about multiple heads is true, and where can you find more "heads" than a cannabis forum?

Look how many brothers and sisters have not only embraced the knowledge, but added knowledge through emulation, vis a vis simply copying it and chanting it like an immutable circumscribed gospel. The difference is the individual insights of the multiple players, so that the whole becomes much greater than the sum of its parts.

Knowledge has always been and always will be power, and openly sharing knowledge is empowering brothers and sisters to "be all they can be", while stopping short of the intellect and efforts required on their parts.

Everyone whom recognized the merit and put forth the effort to use the knowledge, has done most of the work and deserve most the credit.

As I see it, brothers and sisters paying it forward by sharing the new found knowledge openly, while enhancing it with their own insights, are who build an enlightened society and keep the state of the art advancing. Each of us can do only our part, but if we all do our part well and with gusto, collectively we can do pretty much anything we set out to.

As you can see it is a simple geometric progression of minds and brain farts, so works like a pyramid scheme........

Graywolf · Apr 12, 2016

waxman said:
Directly from the master!

Not so much! Still a student and the more I learn, the more I am aware of my ignorance, but glad there is still so much exciting stuff to learn, so as to not die of boredom.

waxman · Apr 12, 2016

Graywolf said:
Not so much! Still a student and the more I learn, the more I am aware of my ignorance, but glad there is still so much exciting stuff to learn, so as to not die of boredom.

This industry is making technological advances everyday. That is awesome as I to am a student on the art of growing and extracting. The day I can not learn anything will be the time to consider retiring. I do not see this happening, ever! I love to learn from other people trying to accomplish the same goals. I also love to share what I have learned. I may not know much, but always do my best to help anyone who needs it. You, my friend have taught me so much, from your website to the forums you post in and I thank you! Very Humbled!

Shatter Issues, Plz Help Bro!!

Shatter Issues, Plz Help Bro!!

Dbritish1

GT21

I like soup

Dbritish1

GT21

I like soup

waxman

WesCyber

Graywolf

Graywolf

waxman

waxman

waxman

Graywolf

Graywolf

waxman

Shatter Issues, Plz Help Bro!!

Shatter Issues, Plz Help Bro!!

Dbritish1

GT21

I like soup

Dbritish1

GT21

I like soup

waxman

WesCyber

Graywolf

Graywolf

waxman

waxman

waxman

Graywolf

Graywolf

waxman

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