Should I add UVB Light?

Moe.Red · Mar 23, 2021

Domon8n30 said:
I'm definitely no scientist just a stoner who likes to grow better Bud each time...
Your basic bro.

Dude, it may not seem like it, but I honestly have no quarrel with you or your desire for better bud! Seroius! We are on the same team.

I just know I am not going to get where I want to be with guesses and forum "wisdom." Things like this get repeated over and over, and ends up with people like yourself buying lights that have UV, even if it has no real impact, or worse, the wrong one.

I appreciate your participation, and maybe we can all learn something together that will result in better bud for all.

Domon8n30 · Mar 23, 2021

This is wat I'm running in my 5x5 now... And since I started running it my trichrome production potency flavor have all definitely increased that's all I'm sayingI don't know exactly what kind of UV it's running maybe you can figure that out for me...

Moe.Red · Mar 23, 2021

Says right there 385nM - UVA. We are not even talking about the same spectrum.

It's killer your light is making for better bud. Sorry we are not comparing apples to apples.

Domon8n30 · Mar 23, 2021

Milson · Mar 23, 2021

Domon8n30 said:
Ok

Moe.Red said:
Says right there 385nM - UVA. We are not even talking about the same spectrum.

It's killer your light is making for better bud. Sorry we are not comparing apples to apples.

I have seen a study floating around about UVA and trichome number. I am sorry I do not have more details but based on what you have seen from me if I find it you can count on it being posted here.

Based on what I have seen, I think the mechanism is probably different.

Milson · Mar 23, 2021

Milson said:
View attachment 1105797 View attachment 1105798

Here is my attempt to show how i am thinking about it. Sorry about the childish handwriting...i will edit with typed captions lol.

Thinking about the problem of what interval of time to count photo exposure over led me to a hypothesis about why UV exposure only in the last two weeks leads to the same increase as longer exposure.

The "sunscreen" gets used up over time. That effect is going to be a negative drag on whatever positive effect you get to that point. And will contribute to the UVR8 accumulation of the cell in the meantime, also a negative effect. So maybe it just about balances out.

Moe.Red · Mar 23, 2021

Milson said:
I have seen a study floating around about UVA and trichome number. I am sorry I do not have more details but based on what you have seen from me if I find it you can count on it being posted here.

Based on what I have seen, I think the mechanism is probably different.

I am currently doing UVA and FAR Red testing in my other Flower tent. I will have some useable data on those wavelengths, including trichome production, in about 1.5 months. Looking forward to that.

How do you quantify number and mass of trichomes?

Milson · Mar 23, 2021

Moe.Red said:
I am currently doing UVA and FAR Red testing in my other Flower tent. I will have some useable data on those wavelengths, including trichome production, in about 1.5 months. Looking forward to that.

How do you quantify number and mass of trichomes?

Standardized photos and visual analysis. It should be easy enough to train a computer to count trichomes if the image is from exactly the same angle and high enough quality. Or just get high and be very patient lmao.

Again, this is the kind of thing I can try to do if you can provide the images.

Idk about mass.

Moe.Red · Mar 23, 2021

Milson said:
Thinking about the problem of what interval of time to count photo exposure over led me to a hypothesis about why UV exposure only in the last two weeks leads to the same increase as longer exposure.

The "sunscreen" gets used up over time. That effect is going to be a negative drag on whatever positive effect you get to that point. And will contribute to the UVR8 accumulation of the cell in the meantime, also a negative effect. So maybe it just about balances out.

Interesting. I always assumed the sunscreen getting used / burned is what caused trichomes to go amber. Could be completely wrong.

I'm also curious on your feedback on my testing method. If I have half of a plant under UVB and the other half normal light, do you think the UVR8 response is mobile, meaning it will still result in the buds on the control non-UV side of the plant, or is it local to the bud? My assumption is local.

Milson · Mar 23, 2021

Moe.Red said:
Interesting. I always assumed the sunscreen getting used / burned is what caused trichomes to go amber. Could be completely wrong.

I'm also curious on your feedback on my testing method. If I have half of a plant under UVB and the other half normal light, do you think the UVR8 response is mobile, meaning it will still result in the buds on the control non-UV side of the plant, or is it local to the bud? My assumption is local.

My assumption is local as well. If it is not local, that itself would be a very interesting result.

I need to sit down and watch more closely to provide testing feedback.

Moe.Red · Mar 23, 2021

Milson said:
Again, this is the kind of thing I can try to do if you can provide the images.

I'm trying to figure this out, I don't know how to get the same pics of the same bud site repeatedly. Normally I chop off a section and take it to the microscope. I'll play around with this a bit and see if I can come up with a standard you can use. Maybe a macro lens on a DSLR at high res so you can zoom in. Appreciate the offer.

Milson · Mar 23, 2021

Moe.Red said:
Interesting. I always assumed the sunscreen getting used / burned is what caused trichomes to go amber. Could be completely wrong.

Within this hypothesis, the plant is trying to keep UV-B induced protein damage and subsequent proteasome-mediated degradation to a minimum level (some minimum equilibrium rate, maybe zero or maybe there is an "acceptable" level) by managing the sunscreen level appropriately, maxing it out until it can no longer perform the processes to keep its defenses going due to senescence. So basically the cells are breaking down the used up THC cleanly and replacing it until they can no longer do it cleanly (proteasome-mediation, it I guess), and you just see the damage. The reason it wants to use THC is that the THC can last longer before needing to be replaced due to its ability to absorb UV-B because of chemistry reasons I guess.

UVR8 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Proteasome - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I may have no idea what I am f*cking talking about btw, this is all just in my world as I am trying to figure it out.

Milson · Mar 23, 2021

Moe.Red said:
I'm trying to figure this out, I don't know how to get the same pics of the same bud site repeatedly. Normally I chop off a section and take it to the microscope. I'll play around with this a bit and see if I can come up with a standard you can use. Maybe a macro lens on a DSLR at high res so you can zoom in. Appreciate the offer.

so long as they are comparable and we can try to account for size in various ways, it should be okay to use for data. Get us somewhere at least.

MIMedGrower · Mar 23, 2021

Milson said:
Within this hypothesis, the plant is trying to keep UV-B induced protein damage and subsequent proteasome-mediated degradation to a minimum level (some minimum equilibrium rate, maybe zero or maybe there is an "acceptable" level) by managing the sunscreen level appropriately, maxing it out until it can no longer perform the processes to keep its defenses going due to senescence. So basically the cells are breaking down the used up THC cleanly and replacing it until they can no longer do it cleanly (proteasome-mediation, it I guess), and you just see the damage. The reason it wants to use THC is that the THC can last longer before needing to be replaced due to its ability to absorb UV-B because of chemistry reasons I guess.

UVR8 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Proteasome - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I may have no idea what I am f*cking talking about btw, this is all just in my world as I am trying to figure it out.

In the Bruce bugby video posted on sshz’s thread (quality of light somethhe says that they are finding that regular blue light may be responsible for most of the trichrome growth.

also far red is responsible for branch elongation and it basically makes the framework for more plant mass.

Why waste time testing what a product manager selling overpriced fluorescent lamps at home when university testing is in progress and way ahead?

Even now Ed rosenthal is putting ir on plants at night to prove faster flowering. Which he suspected 30 years ago.

our little tests prove nothing but confirmation bias. ;-)

MIMedGrower · Mar 23, 2021

Wouldn’t resin weight be a better way to test production. More oil more weight?

And with a cannabinoid test you could see how much is increasing by weight and percentages.

Just a thought.

Aqua Man · Mar 23, 2021

From my research... my opinion only is that there is much like the Emerson effect on the red spectrum, similarly there is an effect with blue and UVA/UVB. Of which the ratios are starting to be uncovered. I believe around 5-7%UVB in combination with blue (can't say the wavelength or %) works to create the increases we are looking to see. Without UV or blue we don't see the results we are looking for... a few years and the info will be proven and available as to what ratios provide the best results. This is true of any spectrum and the ratios and a lot of testing has been done to find the most ideal ratios of red to green to blue to far red to infared to UVB to UVA...

Moe.Red · Mar 23, 2021

MIMedGrower said:
our little tests prove nothing but confirmation bias. ;-)

Every time I run into you you tell me I am wasting time with testing. I don't get it.

Milson · Mar 23, 2021

MIMedGrower said:
In the Bruce bugby video posted on sshz’s thread (quality of light somethhe says that they are finding that regular blue light may be responsible for most of the trichrome growth.

also far red is responsible for branch elongation and it basically makes the framework for more plant mass.

Why waste time testing what a product manager selling overpriced fluorescent lamps at home when university testing is in progress and way ahead?

Even now Ed rosenthal is putting ir on plants at night to prove faster flowering. Which he suspected 30 years ago.

our little tests prove nothing but confirmation bias. ;-)

Because, to be honest, i want to. It's not a waste of time. I am purely an amateur in the original sense of the word i.e. for the love of it. If i was making money with this, i might feel differently. Thank god i have other ways that i vastly prefer to do that.

Moe.Red · Mar 23, 2021

Aqua Man said:
From my research... my opinion only is that there is much like the Emerson effect on the red spectrum, similarly there is an effect with blue and UVA/UVB. Of which the ratios are starting to be uncovered. I believe around 5-7%UVB in combination with blue (can't say the wavelength or %) works to create the increases we are looking to see. Without UV or blue we don't see the results we are looking for... a few years and the info will be proven and available as to what ratios provide the best results. This is true of any spectrum and the ratios and a lot of testing has been done to find the most ideal ratios of red to green to blue to far red to infared to UVB to UVA...

I look at it like a balloon. You squeeze one end and it bulges out another. It would be nice to know the sweet spot for all these variables so we as farmers can do our best to duplicate them. One day...

Grownsince95 · Mar 23, 2021

sshz said:
SolarSystem® UVB

The latest generation high output UVB T5 fluorescent bulb. This system is perfect for a single light in a tent or several hundred lights in a large commercial operation.

californialightworks.com

On the website they also have an article on how to use them and when........ and a 10% off coupon should pop up for first time orders.

These are no joke. I just burned the crap out of a plant using one for the first time. I'm pulling up a seat for some Farm wisdom here

Should I add UVB Light?

Should I add UVB Light?

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